Shotguns 101

[Mike-Mike]

And yes! The forward pistol grip sucks.

 

[Kenny474]

And yes! The forward pistol grip sucks.

I'll agree with that.

 

[MassMark]

Mass Mark, think you are right. I'm just going to get the M4, although I cannot pretend to have the budget for it right this second, I can easily wait a couple months and save for it. No credit purchases for guns per order of the boss (kidding on the 'order'), and no my wife doesn't burn up the credit cards on her womanly purchases either, it's mutually copacetic.

Others think this is a wise choice? I am hoping the M4 will serve as a range blaster, home defense, and a dabble in trap...and it looks super cool.

Perfect...

 

[IPSC_DRL]

I'm sure you enjoy it.

Yes.. and per help of you and some other friends... I now own a Remington 1100 Tac4. 22" barrel, semiauto, 9 round capacity, choked barrel as opposed to fixed.... just plain sweet!

Good for you. I love mine.

 

[ochmude]

Does Mossberg make a similar package for the 500? I ask because, although I know nearly jack about shotguns, I did a familiarization shoot with both a Remington and a Mossberg while in the Marines and I much preferred the position of the safety on the Mossberg. It seemed much more intuitive to disengage to make a shot.

Yes, Mossberg does make a similar package. I purchased the Mossberg 500 Field/Deer combo Saturday afternoon from Dicks in Hadley. I also picked up an 18.5" barrel from Cabelas in East Hartford last night. Today I flexed my Midway dealer discount muscle and bought a Hogue synthetic stock and forend and a few other accessories. I can't wait to try it out this weekend. Pics will be posted once I get her built up just the way I want her.

BTW, I am aware I quoted and answered myself.

 

[MassMark]

Yes, Mossberg does make a similar package. I purchased the Mossberg 500 Field/Deer combo Saturday afternoon from Dicks in Hadley. I also picked up an 18.5" barrel from Cabelas in East Hartford last night. Today I flexed my Midway dealer discount muscle and bought a Hogue synthetic stock and forend and a few other accessories. I can't wait to try it out this weekend. Pics will be posted once I get her built up just the way I want her.

BTW, I am aware I quoted and answered myself.

Don't worry man - sometimes talking to yourself is the only intelligent conversation one can find...Either that, or you may need more meds - I'll send you my card....

 

[Baldkat82]

I've recently come across a remington 870 Police Magnum reciever that I want build up to hunt deer in mass. My biggest question is what type and size barrel i'd want to use. I'm guessing a rifled barrel with sabot slugs would be ideal. what about length?

Remington sells a 23" rifled barrel with scope mount and scope for about $320. I thought this would be a good one to check out but I'm wondering what other opinions might be.

 

[vellnueve]

IMO, the best semi-auto shotgun on the market is the Beretta AL391 series. You can get a 20 or 24 inch barrel, I believe, if you want to use it for home defense. It will take any load and doesn't kick nearly as hard as some other models.

 

[MassMark]

IMO, the best semi-auto shotgun on the market is the Beretta AL391 series. You can get a 20 or 24 inch barrel, I believe, if you want to use it for home defense. It will take any load and doesn't kick nearly as hard as some other models.

That's odd...When you go to the Beretta website and look under tactical shotguns, it directs you to Benelli...

 

[dixidawg]

Remington sells a 23" rifled barrel with scope mount and scope for about $320. I thought this would be a good one to check out but I'm wondering what other opinions might be.

That price is nuts. IIRC the package deal that Dick's had was for a gun and 2 barrels (including the Rifled barrel) for not much more than that.

 

[ShadeWPI]

Sources of confusion:
Smooth bore vs Rifled - Can every SG have both by changing them out?
If the barrels are changeable, yes. Some shotguns don't have removable barrels.

Shot vs Slugs - Can you shoot shot out of a rifled barrel or do you need to change it out to smooth?

You "can" shoot shot out of a rifled barrel, but you shouldn't. The shot damaged the rifling and the rifling damages the shot (reducing accuracy). Rifled barrels are useful for unrifled slugs and sabotted slugs. Rifled slugs and shot are best out of a smooth bore. - A barrel with removable chokes can typically take a "rifled choke" to improve the performance of unrifled and sabotted slugs in a smooth bore.

Chokes - Just don't get it, I know they are for patterning...but that's about it.

A choke narrows or constricts (chokes) the barrel to make shot come out of a smaller diameter barrel. This reduces the spread of the shot and increases effective range (more shot in the same area at longer range) The tighter the choke, the (generally) tighter the pattern. The basic versions are listed. Some newer and tighter ones are available for very long range shooting (I have a "Dead Coyote" choke designed for shooting T-00Buck shot out to 70 yards, but it wont handle slugs because the bore is too small) As noted above, there are also rifled chokes available.

Size of shell - 2.75", 3", 3.5" - What is the difference and what should I get? Are they interchangeable at all, meaning can a 2.75" be fired out of a 3"?

This is the length of the shall. A barrel will typically handle slightly shorter shells. Most 3" Chambers handle 2.75" shells, and Most 3.5" chambers handle 3.0" shells. I'm not sure about firing a 2.75" shell in a 3.5" chamber, it might cause damage to the end of the chamber.

Where can you practice with it? - Slugs only @ BR&PC. Is there a big difference in shooting between the two, aside from one being pellets the other slugs, more along the lines of differing technique and recoil?

Slugs tend to carry better (shoot higher at range) and recoil more than comparable shot, but most in-door ranges limit shot because it bounces off the back-stop back at the shooters and becomes a safety hazard.

 

[ochmude]

Here's a question. I was looking for 2.75" #4 buckshot at Cabelas, which had what seemed to me to be a massive selection of shotgun ammo (this was my first time shopping for shells). I found a few boxes of 00, and a lot of boxes that said they were #4, but didn't specify if they were buckshot or birdshot. Some just said "#4" and some said "#4 shot". There was no mention of the word "buck" or "bird" on any of the boxes. They all had pictures of birds on the boxes, though, so I assumed they were #4 birdshot and did not purchase any. When looking for buckshot, should the box specifically say "buckshot"? If that's the case then all Cabelas appeared to have was 8 boxes of 00 buck, and a couple hundred boxes of various types of birdshot ranging from .410 to 20 gauge. Another question is which ammo would be recommended for a beginner to try clay shooting? My final question...why the hell is shotgun ammo so fricken complicated? Dram weight??? What am I, an apothecary?

 

[IPSC_DRL]

why the hell is shotgun ammo so fricken complicated?

"Buck" shot is just a term used for the larger shot sizes such as "0" and "00".

Birds, including clay ones are shot with a much smaller shot which of course has a higher number designation than larger shot.

#7 or 7 1/2 is good for trap, # 8-9 is used frequently for skeet where ranges are closer.

And of course we could discuss "Gauge" which is equal to the number of lead balls of a particular size it takes to make one pound........ But I digress.

 

[LiquidGx]

Buckshot comes in a variety of sizes I believe starting around 4, 1, 0, 00, 000. IT should say buckshot and is usually located with the slugs. There is #4 shot and #4 buckshot, they are different.

Rifled slugs do not spin in the barrel. The rifling on the slug is there to help stabilize flight. If you get a smooth barrel shotguin, you can get a rifled choke and use sabots for better accuracy.

I have an 870 Wingmaster Magnum LH that pulls HD, target (clay, jugs, anything), and deer duty. Its a beast and if it wasn't so pretty I'd be confident that I could leave it in mud for a week, load a shell and it'd fire. In other words, the 870 is the AK47 of the shotgun world when it comes to reliabliity

I'd recommend any shotgun over a Mossberg. I've heard horror stories of broken plastic and safeties falling off

 

[arlow]

That price is nuts. IIRC the package deal that Dick's had was for a gun and 2 barrels (including the Rifled barrel) for not much more than that.

The dicks gun is not a cantelever scope mount rifled barrel and does not have a scope. Althought the "remington" scope" is probably just relabled tasco or bushnell low grade junk.

Cabellas has the same cantilever barrel with scope for 259.99

I would just buy the Cantilever barrel and then go get a quality shotgun scope.

 

[dixidawg]

I bought a mossberg 500 with the cantilever barrel, scope, and hard case 3 years ago for $279. IIRC Remington had similar specials this past seasonin the $349 range.

 

[WayneWong]

Remington 870 Express vs Benelli Nova pump

I got a $50 gift card to Bass Pro. Tomorrow I'm going to look at the Remington 870 Express and the Benelli Nova Pump tactical. I'm expecting about a $100 price difference. Remington has an additional $30 rebate if I buy it by 12/31. Is the Benelli worth $130 more?

 

[TheRoland]

I got a $50 gift card to Bass Pro. Tomorrow I'm going to look at the Remington 870 Express and the Benelli Nova Pump tactical. I'm expecting about a $100 price difference. Remington has an additional $30 rebate if I buy it by 12/31. Is the Benelli worth $130 more?

MassMark has pretty much sold me on the Benelli SuperNova Tactical assuming it fits when I finally find one to check length-of-pull. The regular Nova I hear is not quite as good. If you can, try them both and get the one that feels better.

 

[WayneWong]

MassMark has pretty much sold me on the Benelli SuperNova Tactical assuming it fits when I finally find one to check length-of-pull. The regular Nova I hear is not quite as good. If you can, try them both and get the one that feels better.

What I am finding is that the Remington 870 is the "go to" standard, and the Benneli Nova has a hard trigger pull and does not do well with recoil. I think if I go with Benelli, I'll look at the SuperNova.

 

[MassMark]

What I am finding is that the Remington 870 is the "go to" standard, and the Benneli Nova has a hard trigger pull and does not do well with recoil. I think if I go with Benelli, I'll look at the SuperNova.

This is only my opinion, so take it for what it's worth. It's not an opinion based on singular preference however, I actually owned the guns I compared, (Remington 870, Mossberg 500, Benelli SuperNova Tactical). The Benelli SuperNova Tactical is a leap ahead of the Remy and Mossy out of the box, in ergonomics, recoil management, fit, form, function, accuracy and trigger - hands down. I am no longer alone in this assessment - a number of people at the NES Pumpkin Blast shot 24-pellet 3 1/2" Winchester Magnums out of my Benelli with nary a twinge...The recoil management of this gun is just superb...It's also amazingly accurate with rifled slugs...

I'm not sure if you get out this way, but I venture east from time to time and you are more than welcome to try it for yourself...Drop me a PM...

 

[dcmdon]

You need to go down to your local gun club on sunday when they are shooting trap, skeet, sporting clays, whaterver, and have a ham and egg sandwich and listen.

Be humble, and ask questions. Then walk the course while others are shooting. Hold your questions until they are off the line or are walking to the next station.

You will learn more in a couple of sundays than you could on a forum like this. You can touch, see and get better give and take of info.

Your questions are all good questions. I have 2 more suggestions BEFORE you buy anything else you should buy 2 books. They are classics.

1) Bob Brister - Shotgunning, the art and science
http://www.amazon.com/Shotgunning-Art-Science-Bob-Brister/dp/0832918407

2) Jack O'conner - the shotgun book
http://www.amazon.com/Shotgun-Book-Jack-OConnor/dp/1125420014

As far as the self defense types, try not to listen too hard to them. They use shotguns to shoot at stationary objects. Ha. Whats the point.

Whatever you buy, you need to buy something you can use to shoot clays of some kind. Its the only way to build skill with a shotgun. Don't go buying something like a Saiga if its your only gun.

You also might want to consider an 870 Express pump. Its not a semi-auto like you said, but its cheap and it will teach you a lot.

Frankly, you don't know enough to make a good purchasing decision now. Spend $300 on the 870 and shoot it. Then in a year, buy whatever you really want. I can guarantee you that what you will want after shooting the 870 for a year will be different than what you think you want now.

Don

 

[flintoid]

I agree with dcmdon on the 870 express. My father bought me a 870 express magnum back when I was 14 and I used it for everything I could: trap shooting in high school, pheasant hunting, turkey hunting (with slugs), dove hunting, and finally goose hunting. You don't need a magnum unless you intend on hunting large migratory geese, but I've never seen any of those around the MA area. They don't have the long routes that the birds have in the midwest, so they aren't nearly as massive and don't require the extra firepower. Then again, my goose hunting in the northease is very limited as I need to know more people that actually do it.

It's a great all around shotgun. A Benelli or _____ will pump easier, give less recoil, but the 870 will shoot just as true, and is a great start to any shotgun collection. I go back to mine more often than not.