Shotguns 101

[Smiles1014]

I hate to start this kind of thread because sometimes it is viewed as the OP being lazy or inept in trying to learn about something. So at the risk of being ostracized I ask the many knowledgeable NES members to clue me in.

I have neither held nor shot a shotgun in my life, but I want one. I have started to research shotguns and have found in many respects I was becoming more confused than learned on the subject.

My goal is to have a multi-purpose shotgun, I will only by one (I swear!), with focus on home defense, though I'd like to try shooting clays with it. I want it sort of tactical and I do not hunt at all and I want a semi-auto. As an aside, is shooting clays (@BR&PC) as easy as buying them and bringing them to the skeet range? Are there certain times to do this? Does an RO need to be there? Who operates the throwing machine thing?...

Sources of confusion:
Smooth bore vs Rifled - Can every SG have both by changing them out?

Shot vs Slugs - Can you shoot shot out of a rifled barrel or do you need to change it out to smooth?

Chokes - Just don't get it, I know they are for patterning...but that's about it.

Size of shell - 2.75", 3", 3.5" - What is the difference and what should I get? Are they interchangeable at all, meaning can a 2.75" be fired out of a 3"?

Where can you practice with it? - Slugs only @ BR&PC. Is there a big difference in shooting between the two, aside from one being pellets the other slugs, more along the lines of differing technique and recoil?

Anything else I should be aware of? At this point going on aesthetics only, I like the Bennelli M4 and Mossberg 930.

 

[ochmude]

I'll be following this thread as well, as I share many of the same questions and am thinking of getting a shotgun for exactly the same reason.

 

[Mike-Mike]

get a 3" smooth bore and you will be able to shoot everything you ever wanted out of it.

 

[Mike-Mike]

Chokes:

Cylinder: good for Home defense with #4 or 00 buck / slugs
improved cylender : good for hunting rabits (trap / slugs)
modified: good for everything / bird hunting (skeet / trap / slugs))
full: ducks/turkey etc. long range tight groups (skeet) no slugs

 

[hminsky]

Here's my take on what you want to do:

Get an 870 Remington Express Magnum, they sell them in a package deal with a 28" barrel plus chokes, good for trap shooting, and a rifle-sighted 20" smoothbore barrel, good for home defense.

If you will be shooting slugs, get a Knoxx recoil reducing stock.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

Rem 1100/1187.

OP desires a semi-auto. The 1100 series is the 1911 of shotguns.

 

[ochmude]

Here's my take on what you want to do:

Get an 870 Remington Express Magnum, they sell them in a package deal with a 28" barrel plus chokes, good for trap shooting, and a rifle-sighted 20" smoothbore barrel, good for home defense.

If you will be shooting slugs, get a Knoxx recoil reducing stock.

Does Mossberg make a similar package for the 500? I ask because, although I know nearly jack about shotguns, I did a familiarization shoot with both a Remington and a Mossberg while in the Marines and I much preferred the position of the safety on the Mossberg. It seemed much more intuitive to disengage to make a shot.

 

[fbirdquik6]

Chokes:

Cylinder: good for Home defense with #4 or 00 buck / slugs
improved cylender : good for hunting rabits (trap / slugs)
modified: good for everything / bird hunting (skeet / trap / slugs))
full: ducks/turkey etc. long range tight groups (skeet) no slugs

Youve got Trap and Skeet mixed up. Full choke or modified is for trap, imp. cyl / open is for skeet.

Trap- birds go away from you (long range)
Skeet- Birds go side to side at close range

 

[ochmude]

you mean the top of the chamber thumb release safety? i only ask because i have a mossberg maverick at home and the safety is down by the trigger. just like the 870.

Yes, on top of the chamber. Sorry, I should have been more specific. I'm not a fan of having the safety down by the trigger. Although I'm sure it's just a matter of training and practice, I tended to have to actually pause and feel around with my finger to find and disengage the safety on the 870 I shot.

 

[Gonzo]

Does Mossberg make a similar package for the 500? I ask because, although I know nearly jack about shotguns, I did a familiarization shoot with both a Remington and a Mossberg while in the Marines and I much preferred the position of the safety on the Mossberg. It seemed much more intuitive to disengage to make a shot.

If they don't offer a package deal, barrels are cheap and plentiful. Finding an 18" two months ago was little difficult though.

 

[Len-2A Training]

You better check your rulebook (or online) for the rules of using shotguns at BR&P.

On the Trap Field (we have no Skeet fields ):

- There is a manual thrower that you MUST use (can't use your own) and it requires one person to operate while another person is shooting.

- Size of shot (only) is restricted. Off the top of my head I THINK (check first) that only 7.5, 8 or 9 is allowed.

- It can be used at any time that outdoor shooting is allowed (check rules again).

On the rifle range:

- There is a patterning target available for use.

- What you can shoot is strictly what is stated in the rulebook (I honestly am unsure, so I won't guess here).

- I know that you can't use any shot on the standard 50 or 100 yd targets. Check the rulebook to see if slugs are allowed (think so, but not positive).

If you want to actually shoot Trap, you have to do so when folks from the Trap Committee are present and running the electric target thrower. Sundays at 12Noon and I think one early evening/week (again it should be in the rulebook or website).

 

[Gonzo]

interesting. i can see someone trained on an m-16/m-4 variant being more comfortable with a thumb activated safety. personally, i hate the location on the new 500's. much more comfortable with a slight move of the index finger.

The top mount safety is horrible if you put a pistol grip on the 500. It's completely out of the way, necessitating that the safety be always off or requiring a large conspicuous movement to operate it.

 

[ochmude]

The top mount safety is horrible if you put a pistol grip on the 500. It's completely out of the way, necessitating that the safety be always off or requiring a large conspicuous movement to operate it.

Very good point that I have never considered.

 

[Gonzo]

well you already know my opinion about pistol grips on 12 gauge shotguns.

f'ing poser.

Not my fault you're limp wristed.

 

[dixidawg]

Sources of confusion:
Smooth bore vs Rifled - Can every SG have both by changing them out?

>>>>>For the most part, yes. Most manufacturers sell rifled barrels that can be easily swapped.


Shot vs Slugs - Can you shoot shot out of a rifled barrel or do you need to change it out to smooth?

>>>>> This can get confusing. You can shoot rifled slugs out of a smoothbore barrel. However, with a RIFLED barrel, you should only shoot SABOT slugs that are specifically designed to shoot through rifled barrels. The rifled barrels with SABOT slugs are much more accurate than a smoothbore shooting rifled slugs.

You should NOT shoot rifled slugs or shot out of a rifled barrel.


Chokes - Just don't get it, I know they are for patterning...but that's about it.

>>>> Chokes control how quickly the shot spreads out (patterns) after it comes out of the barrel. Going from tightest to least tight, Full has the tightest pattern, then Modified, Improved Cylinder, and then cylinder.

Size of shell - 2.75", 3", 3.5" - What is the difference and what should I get? Are they interchangeable at all, meaning can a 2.75" be fired out of a 3"?


>>>>>You can shoot smaller shells out of larger chambers, but NOT vice versa. With a 3.5" chamber, you can shoot 3" and 2.75". BUT with a 2.75" chamber, you can ONLY shoot 2.75" shells. With a 3" chamber, you can only shoot 3" or 2.75" shells.


Where can you practice with it? - Slugs only @ BR&PC. Is there a big difference in shooting between the two, aside from one being pellets the other slugs, more along the lines of differing technique and recoil?

>>>>>Most ranges have Trap, Skeet, or Sporting Clays set up.

Anything else I should be aware of? At this point going on aesthetics only, I like the Bennelli M4 and Mossberg 930.

>>>>> I would second the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500. There are usually good package deals that you can get that have both a smoothbore and a rifled barrel. They are both cheap, reliable, and have TONS of aftermarket goodies you can get to ho it up any way you would want.

 

[Ham Slam]

You should NOT shoot rifled slugs or shot out of a rifled barrel.

This isn’t entirely true. Most modern rifled barreled shotguns are specifically designed to shot Sabot slugs, however they can also shoot rifled slugs. My H&R slug hunter shoots both, and I called H&R before doing so, and they said it is fine. It also says on the back of the Remington slugger that it can be shot out of both a smooth bore and a rifled bore. You will want to make sure you know that it is okay with your gun and ammo choice before doing so.

I would go with a Remington 870, just can’t be beat. It is the same as any other dedicated home defense SG (minus the length), but it can hunt, crush clays. It is just a great around shotgun.

 

[dixidawg]

This isn’t entirely true. Most modern rifled barreled shotguns are specifically designed to shot Sabot slugs, however they can also shoot rifled slugs. My H&R slug hunter shoots both, and I called H&R before doing so, and they said it is fine. It also says on the back of the Remington slugger that it can be shot out of both a smooth bore and a rifled bore. You will want to make sure you know that it is okay with your gun and ammo choice before doing so. QUOTE]

Ok, you got me there


But, just because you CAN doesn't mean you should. He most likely would want to actually hit what he is shooting at. I would suspect the accuracy of shooting rifled slugs out of a rifled barrel would pretty dismal at best.

 

[Ham Slam]

This isn’t entirely true. Most modern rifled barreled shotguns are specifically designed to shot Sabot slugs, however they can also shoot rifled slugs. My H&R slug hunter shoots both, and I called H&R before doing so, and they said it is fine. It also says on the back of the Remington slugger that it can be shot out of both a smooth bore and a rifled bore. You will want to make sure you know that it is okay with your gun and ammo choice before doing so. QUOTE]

Ok, you got me there


But, just because you CAN doesn't mean you should. He most likely would want to actually hit what he is shooting at. I would suspect the accuracy of shooting rifled slugs out of a rifled barrel would pretty dismal at best.

Actually, (not meaning to call you out or anything) at 100 yards I shoot about the same with the $14.99 Sabot slugs as I do with the cheap rifled Remington slugs. I only shoot rifled slugs out of mine, the difference isn’t worth the price. I will also say that the H&R slug gun is a great slug gun, I have been to numerous ranges just before the first day of hunting season, and have seen many different rifled slugs going down range, and the H&R blew them all away. Honestly. It is one ugly gun, but it is a killer. I shot it once at 150 yards and hit paper, which blew me away because I suck, and have never done that with any gun nevermind a shotgun.

But don’t buy a rifled barrel shot gun anyway if you are looking for an all around gun because it is limited to slugs.

 

[Gonzo]

#7 shot out of a rifled barrel makes intersting patterns.

 

[dixidawg]

For years I shot rifled slugs out of a smoothbore, and anything beyond 75 yards or so was really no more than hopeandpray. To the point that I wouldn't take a shot at anything much beyond 60 yards or so.


I recently got a rifled barrel on my Mossberg 500 and can put saboted copper slugs in a 2" group all day at 100 yards. For me with the number of times I actually pull the trigger on a sabot, I don't mind the extra price for the increased performance I get.


That's cool that you can get good performance with rifled slugs. But from a technical view, I don't understand it. The rifling from the barrel would try to impart a spin for the given twist of the barrel. Then the rifling on the slug itself would try to impart yet a different spin. It seems like the two rifilngs (barrel and slug) would work against each other.

 

[Lugnut]

Rem 1100/1187.

OP desires a semi-auto. The 1100 series is the 1911 of shotguns.

Yes.. and per help of you and some other friends... I now own a Remington 1100 Tac4. 22" barrel, semiauto, 9 round capacity, choked barrel as opposed to fixed.... just plain sweet!

 

[Smiles1014]

Thanks for all the responses, just got back to my computer. With the Rem 870 and Moss 500 do you get both barrels? I've seen them hanging on the wall of course so I would imagine they just keep the other in the box? Or is this an extra purchase?

What would sabot rounds be used for, large game far away? Best for 100 yard range use?

And do these models come with all chokes to swap out or do you order the one you'd want when you first purchase?

One last thing, would a smooth bore using rifled slugs be best for some fun 50-100 yards at the range punching paper?

Again, thanks for all the great information.

 

[Ham Slam]

Thanks for all the responses, just got back to my computer. With the Rem 870 and Moss 500 do you get both barrels? I've seen them hanging on the wall of course so I would imagine they just keep the other in the box? Or is this an extra purchase?

What would sabot rounds be used for, large game far away? Best for 100 yard range use?

And do these models come with all chokes to swap out or do you order the one you'd want when you first purchase?

One last thing, would a smooth bore using rifled slugs be best for some fun 50-100 yards at the range punching paper?

Again, thanks for all the great information.

Yes, sabot rounds are great for rifled barrels from about 50 to about 150 yards. You could shoot just about any game with it in North America.

When you buy a shotgun it usally comes with a modified choke, then you buy any other chokes you need. A modified choke can take a slug, buckshot, and any other shot as well. It is a good all around choke. You can pretty much get away with just a modified choke unless you want to shoot skeet (improved cyl or skeet choke) or Trap (full choke). Some places sell both barrels with the gun, and some others don't. You can swap out barrels easliy.

If you want to learn to shoot a shotgun I suggest going to a public skeet shoot. Most places that have skeet are open to the public on Sundays. If you want to shoot at paper you can shoot a rifled slug out of a smooth bore, I have and got bored pretty quickly.

I would just get a smooth bore shotgun and if you wanted to hunt deer you could then get a rifled barrel.

 

[MassMark]

If you have the budget for a Benelli M4, then please buy that...They are sweet beyond sweet...If you want to go for a basic pump gun for starters, look at a Benelli SuperNova Tactical. I know there's a ton of Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 fans, (of which I am one), but the Benelli SNT is one of the smoothest pump guns on the planet and it comes stock with all the necessities for heap big boom-boom fun and adventure.....If you do indeed lay down the scratch for the Benelli M4, you will develop a never ending shit-eating-grin....

 

[Gonzo]

Hell, even the Benelli Nova is a great pump gun.

 

[Eye5600]

In CT, the AWB includes semi-auto shotguns with one of the "count the evil features" clauses. The big problem is the capacity of the magazine.

Not sure about other states

 

[Smiles1014]

Mass Mark, think you are right. I'm just going to get the M4, although I cannot pretend to have the budget for it right this second, I can easily wait a couple months and save for it. No credit purchases for guns per order of the boss (kidding on the 'order'), and no my wife doesn't burn up the credit cards on her womanly purchases either, it's mutually copacetic.

Others think this is a wise choice? I am hoping the M4 will serve as a range blaster, home defense, and a dabble in trap...and it looks super cool.

 

[Kenny474]

If you want a semi auto, buy a Remington11-87, if you go pump, Remington 870 or 887.
As far as slugs go, rifled slugs are best shot from a smooth bore and are accurate to 75 yards maybe 100 at most. Sabot slugs are to be shot from rifled barrels only(I don't care if people say smoothbore is ok, it would make a sabot slug useless), also sabots shot in a good gun are accurate out to 150-175 yards and are much more advanced in technology and stopping power at distance.
You can have fun putting holes in paper with rifled slugs, if you can handle the recoil all day.

Shot should only be fired in a smooth bore as rifling will throw it in erratic patterns at best.

Shell length is dependent on what you are shooting. 2.75" 7.5 or 8 shot is what you want to use for clays. Slugs usually come in 2.75 or 3". The only real difference is slug weight and a slight power difference, and the recoil to your shoulder. Buckshot is pretty much the same as slugs as far as power and you get more pellets in a 3" than 2.75". The 3" and 3.5" birdshot loads are usually heavy loads for hunting.

As far as rifled or smooth bore, it all depends on if the manufacturer or an aftermarket company offers barrels for the model gun you desire.

Go to a few shops and see what feels best and what you can afford, then go to a skeet range and check out what people are shooting. Maybe somebody will let you try out something you like.

 

[Eye5600]

Since this is a newbie thread, let me ask an oddball question.

I came across the Mossberg 500 HS410 Home Security model on their website. (Look under 500 Special Purpose) I'm not in the market, but this raised more questions than it answered.

First, it seems to be pump action with a pistol grip type handle for the pumping hand? Would that really work? I think it would tend to pull the muzzle down.

Second, what about the .410? The Taurus Judge has been widely criticized for a lack of stopping power when using shotshells. On the other hand, one article that I googled up suggested it had more oomph than a .44 with less worry about penetrating walls.

Any opinions?

 

[Kenny474]

A .410 #000 buck has 5 .38 pellets in it, do you think you could walk that off? The slugs are around 375gr and travel at 1200fps and 1100 lb/ft of force, quite capable of killing a human.

The pistol grip is used is close quarters combat that is more point and shoot than marksman skill.