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Senate Backs Allowing Loaded Guns in National Parks

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Blitz1, May 13, 2009.

  1. Blitz1

    Blitz1 NES Member

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    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/05/12/senate-backs-allowing-loaded-guns-national-parks/


    Republican Sen. Tom Coburn of Oklahoma sponsored the amendment, which would restore a Bush administration policy allowing loaded guns in national parks.

    WASHINGTON -- The Senate on Tuesday voted in favor of a measure, 67-29, that would allow Americans to carry firearms in national parks, if their state laws permit them to possess a gun, with 27 Democrats voting in support.

    But because the measure was passed as an amendment to a broader bill seeking reform of the credit card industry, the move jeopardizes the reform bill, whose lead sponsor, Sen. Chris Dodd, opposed the firearm amendment.

    The amendment was sponsored by Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., who has been fighting for some time for the measure. Dodd, a Connecticut Democrat, voted against the Coburn amendment.

    Dodd voiced concern that, as amended, his credit card reform bill could meet the same fate as the D.C. voting rights bill, which was sidelined in the House when it was amended to allow residents of the District of Columbia to carry guns.

    The Coburn amendment to the credit card bill would allow states to determine whether or not legal gun owners can carry guns in state and national parks. It prohibits the Department of Interior secretary from making any rule or enforcing any regulation that goes against that determination.

    Coburn cited statistics, including 41 rapes, 92 robberies, 16 kidnappings and 5,944 other felony violations taking place in national parks last year.

    "Even though parks are relatively safe, oftentimes the best deterrent is for criminals to know someone else might also have a gun," Coburn said.

    Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., who became a nationally-known gun owner after an aide was detained for inadvertently carrying the senator's gun into a Capitol office building, spoke in favor of the amendment.

    "It doesn't mean you can go hunting. It doesn't mean a 12-year-old can carry a gun" into a park, he said, adding that current law leaves means there is a risk of arrest for gun carriers who simply travel down a highway that might skirt or cut through a park, as happens in Virginia and other states.

    No Democrat has spoken against the broader credit card reform bill. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada voted in favor of the amendment, though he warned senators afterward not to introduce any more unrelated amendments to the credit card legislation. Seven of the supportive Democrats are up for re-election in 2010, including Reid.

    Dodd said it is possible, if the bill passes the Senate with the Coburn amendment, it still could be dropped in negotiations with the House over the different versions of the legislation.

    [grin]
     

  2. matt1956

    matt1956

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    although it is done in a scratch my back and i'll scratch yours manner... I'll take it [wink]
     
  3. Nickle

    Nickle

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    HOLY CRAP!!!!!

    Pat Leahy voted FOR it!!

    So did Bernie Sanders, but, I expected no less from him.

     
  4. MaineCWPtraining

    MaineCWPtraining

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    United States Senate Votes to Allow Guns in National Parks

    MAY 18, 2009

    Party liberals have lost the debate.

    Amid so much other news, a Senate vote last week to allow loaded guns in national parks slipped under the media radar. The vote shows how the political cause of gun control is as dead as a mounted moose.

    By 67-29, the Senate passed Oklahoma Republican Tom Coburn's amendment to let law-abiding visitors carry legal firearms into national parks. This overturns a 1983 federal rule requiring that firearms be kept unloaded and in an inaccessible place such as a trunk of a car. The provision (now part of credit-card legislation) protects Second Amendment rights, and it preserves the right of states to pass firearm laws that apply consistently, even on federal lands.

    http://www.freepowerboards.com/mainefirst/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5975#p18460
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. usmcs/s

    usmcs/s

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    good news
     
  6. offcamber

    offcamber

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    Thats great..now I think I will get my CCW for Maine....headed to Acadia this Summer
     
  7. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

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    It is good news, but it isn't the law yet. It has to get through conference committee and be signed by Obama.
     
  8. Big_Red

    Big_Red

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    This is part of the credit-card legislation? How F*cked is that?

    Good news nonetheless. [smile]
     
  9. jpoulette

    jpoulette

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    Both Gregg and Shaheen voted yes. M1911 is correct, there could be a sniper or two hiding in conference committee.
     
  10. Rob

    Rob

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    Interesting. I mean, it's a good thing, but very interesting. Talk about an earmark. CC bill to CCW bill?
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2009
  11. Grendel

    Grendel Banned

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    I think you hit the nail on the head. They were confused... and someone added a W to the end.

    I can't for the life of me figure out how/why this should be part of a Credit Card bill...
     
  12. Rob

    Rob

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    ....or the 8000 earmarks (contraception research, dog parks, swine odor control) in the "stimulus" bill. Seems we finally snuck one in, even if it is a tiny one.
     
  13. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

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    It is a pretty common, yet reprehensible, parliamentary tactic. Attach your controversial amendment to an unrelated piece of legislation that has overwhelming support. No one wants to be the Senator who voted against credit card protection for consumers.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2009
  14. Knob Creek

    Knob Creek NES Member

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    Closest National Park to me is the New Bedford Whaling National Historic Park.
     
  15. Jose

    Jose Guest

    Just another damn Fudd who thinks the Second Amendment is about hunting.
     
  16. gene

    gene

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    Bill allows loaded guns in national parks

    This shit is reaching new levels of being absurd with a new poll and the Brady camp, no less!

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30832809/

    Congress is moving to restore a Bush administration policy

    updated 2 hours, 4 minutes ago
    WASHINGTON - The Democratic-controlled Congress is moving to restore a Bush administration policy that allowed loaded guns in national parks.

    The Senate voted Tuesday to allow guns in national parks and wildlife refuges, and the House could follow suit as soon as Wednesday.

    The measure is included in a popular bill imposing new restrictions on credit card companies. Democratic leaders have said they hope to send a final version to the White House for the president's signature by week's end.

    The Senate vote is a stark reversal from what many gun-control advocates expected when a federal judge blocked the Bush policy in March. The decision reinstated restrictions that had been in place since the Reagan administration. The rules severely restrict guns in the national parks, generally requiring them to be locked or stored.

    The Obama administration accepted the March 19 ruling, saying that the Interior Department would review the policy over the next several months.

    That timetable changed quickly last week after Oklahoma Sen. Tom Coburn inserted an amendment to the credit card bill that would allow concealed, loaded guns in parks and refuges.

    Amendment easily passed
    To the surprise of many, the amendment easily passed, winning support from 67 senators — including 27 Democrats. Among those who voted "yes" was Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada, who had blocked Coburn's amendment from coming to the Senate floor for more than a year. Seven other Western Democrats voted with Reid to support the Republican senator's amendment, which allows a range of firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges as long as they are allowed by federal, state and local law.

    Spokesman Jim Manley said Reid is a strong supporter of the Second Amendment, adding that the guns in parks issue was a major concern for many Nevadans.

    "The rules that apply to our federal lands are felt acutely in Nevada, where 87 percent of the state's land is managed by federal agencies," Manley said.

    The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, which sued to block the Bush policy, called the Senate vote reckless. The group called on President Barack Obama to demand that the gun provision be stripped from the credit card bill.

    "Families should not have to stare down loaded AK-47s on nature hikes," said Brady campaign president Paul Helmke. "The president should not remain silent while Congress inserts reckless gun policies that he strongly opposes into a bill that has nothing whatsoever to do with guns."

    Rep. Raul Grijalva, D-Ariz., chairman of a national parks subcommittee, said the measure would make parks more dangerous and urged House Democratic leaders to strip the amendment from the final bill.

    Described as 'gotcha amendment'
    Grijalva called the measure a "gotcha amendment" aimed at demonstrating the power of the National Rifle Association. Still, he acknowledged, it is likely to pass, given the pro-gun rights majorities in both the House and Senate.

    "It's uphill. We know that," Grijalva said at a news conference Tuesday.

    Democratic leaders said there was not enough time to send the bill to a House-Senate conference committee — where presumably it could be removed without a vote — and still get it to Obama by Memorial Day as he has requested.

    Chris W. Cox, chief lobbyist for the NRA, called Grijalva's comments offbase.

    "The National Rifle Association doesn't set the legislative calendar, and certainly doesn't determine which amendments are allowed to be offered or not offered in either the House or the Senate," he said.

    Coburn said the gun measure protects every American's Second Amendment rights and also protects the rights of states to pass laws that apply to their entire state, including public lands.

    Vote: Should guns be allowed in national parks?"

    Visitors to national parks should have the right to defend themselves in accordance with the laws of their states," Coburn said.

    House Democratic Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., told reporters on Tuesday that the House could vote separately on the gun legislation. Doing so would allow each measure to pass, but Democrats who endorse credit card reform could still vote as they wished on the gun measure.

    If the two measures are passed separately as expected, they would be rejoined before being sent to the president as a single bill, Hoyer said.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. Dench

    Dench

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    heres the poll URL
    http://www.newsvine.com/_question/2...d-concealed-guns-be-allowed-in-national-parks


    here are the options
    -No. Allowing firearms will only increase the risk of reckless gun violence.
    -Yes. Families should be allowed to protect themselves, especially on public lands.
    -Maybe. They should allow only some firearms, not loaded assault-style weapons like Uzis, for example.
    -I don't know.


    lets tell them what we think.
     
  18. 06LemansC6

    06LemansC6

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    Already voted.......Why did I think that a bill similar to this already passed? I must have been sleeping. This would be good news. I would prefer to carry while in the White Mountain area.
     
  19. Big_Red

    Big_Red

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    I am getting really infuriated reading some of the comments. These people are complete f***ing idiots. I think they all need to experience either being assaulted by another man or attacked by a hungry mountain lion or a bear. I would love to see them in action in one of those situations. I am sure that their "brilliant" minds would save their asses. [rofl]

    Why is everyone carrying a gun being called a "maniac"? [rolleyes][frown]
     
  20. Jose

    Jose Guest

    I no longer give a FF what the powers that be want. I will do what I will do.
     
  21. pdm

    pdm NES Member

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    Here's my guess on how it will go: the House will pass the CC bill without the CCW amendment. The bill will go to a conference committee where they will "hammer out an agreement" -- one that happens to not have the CCW amendment in it. The Senators get to look good to their voters ("See! I voted in favor of your rights!") while killing a measure that they don't really support (see: who will be on the conference committee and how they vote).
     
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  22. Larry Legend

    Larry Legend

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    Sanders was a champion of the Credit Card companies part. I'm sure he had something to do with getting this line item put into the National Parks bill.


    I really like that man.
     
  23. Nickle

    Nickle

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    I expected no less from Bernie, because he does tend to look out for the consumer.

    On gun issues, he tends to be odd at best, but usually can be depended on to be generally on the correct side.

    Leahy, on the other hand, is only motivated to vote correctly on gun issues by fear. Fear like "the deer hunters will never forgive me".
     
  24. SemiAutoSam

    SemiAutoSam Banned

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    ▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓▓
    DITTO

    A free man does not ask permission to exercise his Constitutional rights.

    Ahh but we are not free men now are we ?

    You will note that the 14th Amendment created slaves out of most of us and only those that are smart enough not to allow themselves to be sucked into Corp US jurisdiction are free men.

    I see my scum sucking excuses for senators voted against my rights again.
    Boxer (D-CA)
    Feinstein (D-CA)






    Check out how they worded this section of the question.
    Are they learning ?
     
  25. M1911

    M1911 Moderator NES Member

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    I agree. I'll be very surprised if the CCW amendment makes it into law.
     
  26. dwarven1

    dwarven1 Appleseed Instructor Dealer NES Member

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    I just find it amusing that the tactic that has so often been used against gun owners is now being used in our behalf.

    Ah, I see Paul Helmke is upholding his reputation as a liar again. CCW laws are not usually about AK-47s, but concealed handguns. However, it sounds so much better when he can make his strawman argument.
     
  27. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    Credit Card Reform and Guns

    The house has passed credit card reform WITH the OK to carry in national parks provision, and Obama is scheduled to sign it on Friday. Some hard core democrats voted against it on due solely to this provision.
     
  28. Jose

    Jose Guest

    Sweet!

    It's about time we started using their dirty tricks against them.
     
  29. MasterShinken

    MasterShinken

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    I really have to stop reading these comments on the polls, I'll get sick from high blood pressure [hmmm]
     
  30. Rob Boudrie

    Rob Boudrie NES Member

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    The message may be as important as the result. Despite owning all three houses, the Democrats realize that picking fights with the gun owners may not be a good karma move.
     

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