Scope Suggestions

[JAD]

I am in the process of acquiring a Ruger Precision Rifle (.308) and I am looking at putting a nice piece of glass. I am primarily going to be using the rifle on the range at distances out to 300, which is the longest range that my club has. I would love the opportunity to shoot further if I ever get access to a longer range. As of last night, I was pretty set on buying the SWFA Supersniper (20x42), with the one drawback being the fixed magnification. (The magnification would be fine for most of my range shooting). This morning I was looking at the Samplelist website and saw a really good price on a Hawke Sidewinder, 6-24x56. I was thinking that it might be a better option to go with a variable scope, which (1) might offer a little extra magnification which might be better in certain situations e.g. if I am able to access a longer range and (2) could allow access to a lower power if I were to take the Ruger Precision Rifle on a hunting trip someday (I obviously have other rifles that are better suited to hunting, and if I really wanted to take the Ruger Precision Rifle, my initial thought was that I could put a different lower power scope on it for a hunt).

However, I genuinely want to consider the Hawke, though I'm not sure if I know enough to make a fully informed choice. I know that the SWFA Super Sniper series are well regarded as quality optics. I have never heard of Hawke before. Is that brand generally well respected? Also, I know that the Hawke Sidewinder is advertised as having an illuminated recticle. I have never used an illuminated reticle before , but I would like to at least have the option of using it without illumination. Is that possible with the way that the Hawke is configured? Also, with the variable power scope, will the mil-dots remain true when I cycle between the different magnification levels?

For my use, do you have any recommendations?

 

[mac1911]

Im a HAWKE brand scope fan. I have 4 right now and have owned at least that many over the years. From pellet guns to the sidewinder.

My best advice is try to get behind as many scopes as you can at the range. Find a level of price and what you expect and don't assume higher magX is going to be better think more on the lines of clarity and resolution. Also depends on what your trying to do down range. You don't need a ton of magX if your looking to just make hits on steel vs trying to hit the X ring

 

[1776]

Trackingpoint TrackingPoint - Next Generation Precision Optics


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0oGZ4TZr5k

 

[PilotRPI]

I am really happy with Vortex stuff. I have a razor gen I on my 700 LTR that i got on clearance when the gen ii’s were coming out, viper binocs, and viper spotting scope. Quality is pretty good and love the warranty if needed. The swfa stuff is highly reviewed as well. If you are looking to spend a bit more Night Force is very popular. I like the variable magnification, but I dont see why fixed wouldn't work.

Keep an eye on sample list, and see if Euro Optic has any clearance items. Sometimes they clear stuff out for great prices and are a legit site.

 

[Johnmark]

Vortex, nightforce, s and bender

 

[mac1911]

The hawke ballistic software is very good also and works great with their scopes.

 

[mac1911]

I am really happy with Vortex stuff. I have a razor gen I on my 700 LTR that i got on clearance when the gen ii’s were coming out, viper binocs, and viper spotting scope. Quality is pretty good and love the warranty if needed. The swfa stuff is highly reviewed as well. If you are looking to spend a bit more Night Force is very popular. I like the variable magnification, but I dont see why fixed wouldn't work.

Keep an eye on sample list, and see if Euro Optic has any clearance items. Sometimes they clear stuff out for great prices and are a legit site.

How do you see the vortex reticles. They all appear grey to me almost translucent gray if that makes sense. Vortex did not have a reticle i liked. Everything was to busy.

 

[PilotRPI]

How do you see the vortex reticles. They all appear grey to me almost translucent gray if that makes sense. Vortex did not have a reticle i liked. Everything was to busy.

I don’t have a huge frame of reference, but I like the one i have. Never found it too busy. Heck, it even lights up in dark conditions. I’ve heard some people say that the Vortex reticle is too thick. Probably good to try a bunch before you buy if you can.

 

[PilotRPI]

This is the reticle i have.

 

[mac1911]

This is the reticle i have.

Thats what i call busy.

 

[abundigas]

I went with an Athlon Argos 6-24x 50mm set up in MOA,on an X-Skel 0 MOA base, Got both @ Midway I think the whole deal was under $500, am very happy with it. Its on a Tikka T3x Tac A1, I believe the Ruger has a 20 MOA base built into the receiver, so this should be good out to 1000 yards.

 

[TheRoland]

Reviews for Hawke seem mixed, in the literal sense. Some lines have reviews that are very positive, some negative.

I'd personally go for something that's more mainstream.

 

[wahsben]

I've got a Vortex Gen II Razor 4.5X27 on my RPR but it cost more than double what my rifle did. I don't think you're looking to spend that much. On Precision Rifle Blog they have a section: What the pros use. They cover rifles, optics and much more: Long Range Scopes: What The Pros Use Nikon, higher end Bushnell and Burris also SWAFA as far as I now offers variable scopes too. Vortex also makes less expensive but good scopes the Viper series. I've heard good things about the higher end Athlon's. Nightforce makes very good scopes but they're expensive. Also European brands such as Schmidtt & Bender, Kahles, Steiner etc. have very good scopes but they tend to be even more expensive. Check youtube reviews and forum reviews. Search best scope or highest recommended scope in the price range that you're considering etc.

 

[mac1911]

Reviews for Hawke seem mixed, in the literal sense. Some lines have reviews that are very positive, some negative.

I'd personally go for something that's more mainstream.

Main stream does not equal good. Hawks has been around 35 years or so.
Reviews can be mixed you need to balance that stuff out for yourself.
Vortex are very good scopes and offer good value for price point plus a solid warranty.
There are pros and cons to what is good or bad.
Pick a price range. Try as many as You can .

I’m not always keen on what the pro uses often pros are sponsored and paid.

Only real reason I did not go with a vortex vs the sightron I picked up is the sightron had sharp black reticle and a reticle I liked and the glass is brighter and resolution was clear at 32x not so much with the vortex. These things you won’t pick up on easily unless you try them side by side in real world conditions.

Things I don’t like about the sightron, no zero stop and hard to find nice lens covers

For the record the best scope I personally tried was a March fixed 50x with a 1/16 moa dot. At 200 yards you can pick out which target fiber hanging in the bullet hole you want to hit. Crazy nice but $3-5k ish

Best I can say is get a solid grub on end use. Trying to get a do all scope will lead to unhappy results somewhere.
If your going to do a lot of random distance shooting and reticle with hold over chevrons are much better than trying to dial in IMHO .
If your looking to get 1” closer to the center you want a good scope with good turrets that repeat well and have little back lash.

 

[Rockrivr1]

I went with the vortex as well and I’m very happy with the generation two 6 to 25 x 50 PST scope that I have on my RPR. If you would like to get a good scope at a good price there is currently at generation One PST vortex in the for sale section for $600. From what I’m seeing on the sites that is a very good price. I’ve been contemplating buying it for AR 10 build that I have. But it could be something that you like on your Ruger

 

[LittleCalm]

I’ve had vortex but prefer the razor HD over their regular viper line (I think I have a viper lying around unused somewhere - it was decent but I prefer the razor HD). But the razor is pricey. Hawke scopes are very good for a budget scope. They are huge in the field target air rifle community. I haven’t tried the super budget scopes like tac vector and athlon but have heard generally positive things about them given their $220-ish price point for a variable FFP scope.

 

[wahsben]

I’m not always keen on what the pro uses often pros are sponsored and pai

True, but the equipment still has to be of good quality otherwise it would cost them matches and if they're losing matches because of equipment they'll find another sponsor and equipment. These people are winning or placing at the top with the equipment so that does tell me it's good. It may not be the best but it's still good. Also Precision Rifle Blog has lots of other information on it so it's worth looking at along with other recommendations and information.

 

[mac1911]

True, but the equipment still has to be of good quality otherwise it would cost them matches and if they're losing matches because of equipment they'll find another sponsor and equipment. These people are winning or placing at the top with the equipment so that does tell me it's good. It may not be the best but it's still good. Also Precision Rifle Blog has lots of other information on it so it's worth looking at along with other recommendations and information.

Very true good equipment is good to have.
I spent a year looking at scopes in the $1000 range before deciding. Of course 6 months later the scope i wanted came out! i grew up on simple cross hair and duplex reticles so i lean towards simple. I can range find with a duplex ret as well as my MOA 2 sightron ret. All that graphing that seems so popular today just clutters up the image and takes away from focus on the shot.....for me anyway.

 

[92G]

some thoughts:

1) don't buy the hype that you need FFP. if the reticle is done anything other than perfect it will either be unusably thin at low mag or too thick at high mag. for precision shooting you will be using the highest mag for most shooting, so a 2nd FFP is just fine. right now the optics world is in this FFP craze, but I find hilarious when people buy their FFP scope then complain they cannot see the reticle on low power! no shit sherlock.

2) fix mag is fine but a 20x might be annoyingly high. to me the main reason for variable mag is to drop the magnification and obtain a larger FOV when you want it. also i like the idea of fixed mag for quicker ranging and shooting. design is robust. for a bolt action these are not as important as for a semi auto, so i would lean towards variable mag for your RPR. one big advantage to the SWFA SS line is they can take an absolute beating from a heavy bolt forward impulse (e.g. M14, FAL) but for your purposes with a bold gun irrelevant.

3) in terms of specific scopes there are many nice options out there. i would decide the following:

-are you going to dial your elevation/windage or prefer hold overs? the advantage to using holdovers is your scope doesn't need perfect turret tracking and it will still kick ass. the primary arms HUD reticle in the 6-30x could be a great choice if budget allows
Primary Arms Platinum Series 6-30X56mm FFP Rifle Scope - Illuminated ACSS HUD DMR Reticle PA6-30X56FFP-ACSS-HUD-DMR

-do you want illuminated reticle?
for a bolt gun I'm not sure it matters but if willing to forgo illumination you can get some nice glass.

the vortex viper PST gen 2 is a nice line of optics i am very happy with my 1-6x PST gen2. it is a noticeable step up from the gen1. the glass is almost on par with the razor. however there are many other options out there. i find the vortex fanboy-ism a bit annoying. there are lots of folks out there who only buy vortex and have really no point of reference.

i would strongly consider the Burris XTR II line as well. many seem unpleased with their 2-10x but I can say my 3-15x XTR II is an absolute beast and perfect pair to a 308 bolt gun. the XTR II is a few years old so it seems the prices are dropping like crazy. i also have some mild brand loyalty to Burris because they have solid service. sportoptics seems to have great deals on the burris XTR II

Burris Extreme XTR-II Tactical Rifle Scope Sale Burris Rifle Scopes

 

[wahsben]

Very true good equipment is good to have.
I spent a year looking at scopes in the $1000 range before deciding. Of course 6 months later the scope i wanted came out! i grew up on simple cross hair and duplex reticles so i lean towards simple. I can range find with a duplex ret as well as my MOA 2 sightron ret. All that graphing that seems so popular today just clutters up the image and takes away from focus on the shot.....for me anyway.

Isn't that the way things work. I hate it when that happens. You do all the research and settle on what you think is best and accepting the compromises of the equipment and like you said shortly after, usually right after the return period is over someone comes out with equipment that suits your needs better than what you just recently purchased. As a kid growing up I only used Iron sights and didn't have any rifles with scopes until many years later. My first scopes were simple crosshairs too and I've still got some on some of my rifles. I thought I would find the newer reticles too busy also but I havn't and they can remove a lot of the guess work/Kentucky windage from the equation. Everyone has their preferences though so it's always good to try and look through as many scopes as you can.

 

[frenchman]

I recently bought (actually, for the price I paid, it's more like I stole it) a Vortex SE 3-18 with illum MOA reticle. It's good for my intended purpose, which is minute of man @750. Make a list of the features you need, then make a list of those you want. Read up on stuff. What diameter tube do you want? What range of adjustment? Do you really need those oversized tactical turrets, or will capped do just fine? How likely is it that you'll need a zero stop (nice feature that I sorely miss on mine) How important is dusk/dawn shooting and the necessary light gathering capabilities? Are you more of a hold over or adjustment guy?
Keep in mind, everybody is always yapping about clarity, and how expensive scopes have so much better glass, ya da ya da. The glass is not what makes the sometimes tremendous price difference. It's all in the turrets. On cheap-ish scopes like BSA, Simmons, Tasco and others, your clicks MAY be fine. But then, they also MAY be blind clicks (means the turret feels and sounds like you adjusted, it's just that your reticle doesn't get the memo). With a Nightforce, US optics, S&B, Zeiss, Vortex or others, a click WILL be 1/4 MOA or 0.1 MIL. Every time.
It's all about the money, brother. Some scopes, as nice as they are, are just ridiculously priced. They're made for outstanding marksmen like the instructors at Ridgeline, or people who use precision rifles for a living. Ask yourself if your scope matches your abilities and needs. And for crying out loud, don't use Wallyworld nine dollar rings. Torque your ring screws (vortex recommends 15 inch/pounds max) and make sure your base is in line and torqued/loctited (this last sentence is a little jab to the ribs of all the REM 700 owners. You know who you are).

 

[mac1911]

I recently bought (actually, for the price I paid, it's more like I stole it) a Vortex SE 3-18 with illum MOA reticle. It's good for my intended purpose, which is minute of man @750. Make a list of the features you need, then make a list of those you want. Read up on stuff. What diameter tube do you want? What range of adjustment? Do you really need those oversized tactical turrets, or will capped do just fine? How likely is it that you'll need a zero stop (nice feature that I sorely miss on mine) How important is dusk/dawn shooting and the necessary light gathering capabilities? Are you more of a hold over or adjustment guy?
Keep in mind, everybody is always yapping about clarity, and how expensive scopes have so much better glass, ya da ya da. The glass is not what makes the sometimes tremendous price difference. It's all in the turrets. On cheap-ish scopes like BSA, Simmons, Tasco and others, your clicks MAY be fine. But then, they also MAY be blind clicks (means the turret feels and sounds like you adjusted, it's just that your reticle doesn't get the memo). With a Nightforce, US optics, S&B, Zeiss, Vortex or others, a click WILL be 1/4 MOA or 0.1 MIL. Every time.
It's all about the money, brother. Some scopes, as nice as they are, are just ridiculously priced. They're made for outstanding marksmen like the instructors at Ridgeline, or people who use precision rifles for a living. Ask yourself if your scope matches your abilities and needs. And for crying out loud, don't use Wallyworld nine dollar rings. Torque your ring screws (vortex recommends 15 inch/pounds max) and make sure your base is in line and torqued/loctited (this last sentence is a little jab to the ribs of all the REM 700 owners. You know who you are).

so true.... I recently posted about "cheap scope" in the equipment section. I have several cheap tascos/bushnell/nikkons from the past 20 plus years. once zeroed they hold it and generally take a beating BUT for gods sake don't touch those F.n turrets unless you really need to. I have a GAMO branded scope runs about $25 bucks. its solid and hold zero but turret clicks are FUBAR on click can shift the cross hairs 1moa plus and then you need 8 clicks to get 1/4 moa. You can feel the slop in them. Although for $25 its clear and clean and still going strong on top of a 22lr bolt gun. Also knowing what your buying helps.

example this scope my friend bought
https://www.amazon.com/Ade-Advanced-Optics-6-25X56-Illuminated/dp/B00CUOLXFU
. Was all excited and its actually a pretty darn good scope for $250. It feels a little cheap but it surprised me its clear and the turrets feel solid, stiff but solid. .....the point he got it home and went to mount it on his old mount. WTF it don't fit. It has a 35mm body and he only has 30mm scopes. He did not read that part.

Good luck and post your results.

My sightron 8x32x56 with side focus is great love it use it out to 600 yards on a varmint set up
I still love my old school 2.5x8x32 luepould VXIII- this scope is old and has been on everything from 22s to crossbows
I have a $250 8x32x40 Mueller that for $250 is very good only complaint I have is the turrets don't have a strong audible "click" which I like
and no zero stop----zero stop is something you don't think of until you start to dial up all sorts of ranges and need to get back to your "base line zero" quickly.
I have 4 Hawkes and all have clear glass, decent turrets and hold zero.
I even have a POS bug buster that's held up very well.
The hawke with map 6 reticle above and bug buster below. They have spent time on spring air rifles and 22s. The bug buster spent some time on the shotgun and 50 cal black powder for a while also.

Advantage to a FFP is you don't have to think much when it comes to moa/mil adjustments.
If you have a reticle with 2 moa spacing on your chevrons/hash marks or what even you want to call them they are set to equal X moa at Y magnification. example my sightron is "subtension" is set at 24x to have the spaces at 2 moa and the center dot is .25 moa
with a FFP scope that dot is always .25 moa no matter how much magX you dial up or down.
The viper directions explain FFP and use of the reticle pretty good
http://www.vortexoptics.com/uploads/web_manual_rfl_viper-pst_r-416f1-a2.pdf

 

[groundscrapers]

How do you see the vortex reticles. They all appear grey to me almost translucent gray if that makes sense. Vortex did not have a reticle i liked. Everything was to busy.

You need that reticle if you expect to get any sort of accurate holdover. It has its place in a gun that is designed to be a 1000yd+ gun.

First lets establish your budget. The rest will fall out from there.

 

[amm5061]

Leupold all the things!

Sorry, it's my default answer. I've got a problem.

 

[mac1911]

You need that reticle if you expect to get any sort of accurate holdover. It has its place in a gun that is designed to be a 1000yd+ gun.

First lets establish your budget. The rest will fall out from there.

I would need to actually use one of those graph paper looking reticles at 1000 yards to see if it helps. At 600 yards its just in the way and "blocks" the target.

 

[groundscrapers]

I would need to actually use one of those graph paper looking reticles at 1000 yards to see if it helps. At 600 yards its just in the way and "blocks" the target.

I mean its a .05 mil dot or cross at the center of most and that is consistent at any magnification. So at 600 yds .05 mils is .17 MOA or 1.07" of coverage.

 

[mac1911]

I mean its a .05 mil dot or cross at the center of most and that is consistent at any magnification. So at 600 yds .05 mils is .17 MOA or 1.07" of coverage.

its not the center dot its all that clutter around it.

 

[BigTimber]

Leupold all the things!

Sorry, it's my default answer. I've got a problem.

This. “I put that sh!t on everything”.

 

[ToddDubya]

I have a Sightron 6.5-20x and shooting out to 200 yards I never liked the 20x. Sure, it practically doubles as a spotting scope but there's such thing as too much magnification. The reticle is a simple dot, which is nice and simple for what I was doing (shooting paper at 200 yards). I just found myself dialed back much closer to 6.5 than 20 for more consistent groups. If I was to do it again I'd go with a 4-9x. At the time I was under the tutelage of a bench rest shooter.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

some thoughts:

1) don't buy the hype that you need FFP. if the reticle is done anything other than perfect it will either be unusably thin at low mag or too thick at high mag. for precision shooting you will be using the highest mag for most shooting, so a 2nd FFP is just fine. right now the optics world is in this FFP craze, but I find hilarious when people buy their FFP scope then complain they cannot see the reticle on low power! no shit sherlock.

2) fix mag is fine but a 20x might be annoyingly high. to me the main reason for variable mag is to drop the magnification and obtain a larger FOV when you want it. also i like the idea of fixed mag for quicker ranging and shooting. design is robust. for a bolt action these are not as important as for a semi auto, so i would lean towards variable mag for your RPR. one big advantage to the SWFA SS line is they can take an absolute beating from a heavy bolt forward impulse (e.g. M14, FAL) but for your purposes with a bold gun irrelevant.

3) in terms of specific scopes there are many nice options out there. i would decide the following:

-are you going to dial your elevation/windage or prefer hold overs? the advantage to using holdovers is your scope doesn't need perfect turret tracking and it will still kick ass. the primary arms HUD reticle in the 6-30x could be a great choice if budget allows
Primary Arms Platinum Series 6-30X56mm FFP Rifle Scope - Illuminated ACSS HUD DMR Reticle PA6-30X56FFP-ACSS-HUD-DMR

-do you want illuminated reticle?
for a bolt gun I'm not sure it matters but if willing to forgo illumination you can get some nice glass.

the vortex viper PST gen 2 is a nice line of optics i am very happy with my 1-6x PST gen2. it is a noticeable step up from the gen1. the glass is almost on par with the razor. however there are many other options out there. i find the vortex fanboy-ism a bit annoying. there are lots of folks out there who only buy vortex and have really no point of reference.

i would strongly consider the Burris XTR II line as well. many seem unpleased with their 2-10x but I can say my 3-15x XTR II is an absolute beast and perfect pair to a 308 bolt gun. the XTR II is a few years old so it seems the prices are dropping like crazy. i also have some mild brand loyalty to Burris because they have solid service. sportoptics seems to have great deals on the burris XTR II

Burris Extreme XTR-II Tactical Rifle Scope Sale Burris Rifle Scopes

Terrific points.

While all my scopes are FFP, I agree in principal with lower mag optics.

My XTR II 2-10x42 is kinda silly to use at x2 magnification with a FFP.

My Athlon Talos BTR 4-14x44 is a little more usable (and a insane value) but still really thick on x14 magnification

My Schmidt & Bender PMII 5-25 is a dream at any magnification above x8

For value optics, I love the Athlon products. Decent stuff, awesome warranty. Mid priced stuff, I think Burris offers some of the nicest sub $1k optics you can buy. Yes CA can be high for some, but offering the reticle sand the turrets with decent glass for $1k is just solid (and also a great warranty)

Higher end stuff, is well, higher end. When spending $3k on glass it’s usually all really good stuff and just knit picking at that point