School me on night vision.

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I've been catching up with my old buddy in Arizona recently, and he mentioned that they go to the range at night and shoot with NVGs and other stuff. It sounds like fun. Do people do this kind of stuff up in New England, or is it not a thing here? Is there a club one can use for night shooting? What are the typical setup costs(I remember a monocular used to be about $20k per soldier)? Are there rental places?

Basically, I need to be schooled on night vision and how one goes about trying it out.
 
Pvs-14, get the white phosphor version.

You’ll want illuminator of varying design for different situations.

Target identification is difficult much beyond 100 yards.

Thermal is better

Practice at home/private ranges.
 
I believe the SOP around here is "flex on the poors"

So there really is only one option.

www.l3harris.com

Ground Panoramic Night Vision Goggle

The L3Harris Ground Panoramic Night Vision Goggle provides the operator with a 97-degree panoramic field-of-view that enables increased situational awareness and operational effectiveness.
www.l3harris.com www.l3harris.com


However, if you want to break rank, it boils down to this. Cost of Glass, Cost of tube, Cost of intensifier. You can start with digital night vision, but it will have limited range and a slight delay. It uses an infrared emitter to "light up" objects and things, which the camera that picks up, processes, and delivers to your eyes. Your only concern here is cost of glass - everything else is like a cheap $40 security camera. This kind of set up is fine for hunting, but should never be considered boogaloo-ready gear. That emitter that you use to see is the same thing as wearing LED's at night to someone with actual NVG's.

Once you step out from the $100-$500 range of digital NVG, you are looking at at least $2000 before you have decent monocle. $4000 for tacticool head mounts. Sometimes there are sales and other deals to be had, but you are talking saving 2% to 5%.
 
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MAGA99 said:
Pvs-14, get the white phosphor version.

You’ll want illuminator of varying design for different situations.

Target identification is difficult much beyond 100 yards.

Thermal is better

Practice at home/private ranges.
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I would say thermal is better for initially identifying animals/people and operating or recently used equipment/vehicles, but not so great for moving around. Night vision is better for situational awareness and generally moving around. Agreed on the need for an IR illuminator which you can think of as a flashlight that you can only see with nv.

I only have experience with green PVS14, and a couple of now well obsolete thermal devices. One a vehicle roof mounted camera where the operator controls it from inside with a joystick and monitor, and a weapon mounted scope.

If my task were to sit in a position and find someone or something moving around, I would want thermal. If my task were to cover ground in the dark, I would want nv.
 
We shoot a "Ring in the New Year" match at my club each year. It's all steel, and we run it as two separate matches, once in the daytime, and then again after sunset.

Rules for nighttime are simple - anything goes other than providing light for another shooter.

I shoot it with my standard comp gun, a G34 with SRO; I add a TLR-1 to it for the night match.

A lot of guys in our matches are active or retired military. Some of them run NODS, I tried on one set. I'm outdoors, beautiful clear night, and I can see lots of stars. I put the "NODS" on and it was absolutely amazing - I could see so many, many stars that hadn't been visible. Looked downrange, and it was clear as day. Looked around, and I could clearly see other people, clearly enough to recognize them.

Now the bad news - 10K...
 
PVS-31 is the gold standard, but PVS-14 is still amazing. That's what I have, a JRH white phosphor thin film PVS-14 with 2500+ FOM. I would recommend them and steele industries, my buddy has one of their PVS-14s. GPVNG-18 is geat for CQB but costs as much as a new car. I have very limited experience with thermal, so beyond saying "you get what you pay for" and "get the highest resolution, highest refresh rate (50hz) you can afford" I won't comment on that.

Basically, you want gen III white phosphor, thin or preferably unfilmed, as high FOM as you can get (typically 2000+ for us civilian serfs, military gets 4000+ FOM for special operations). You want a helmet mount, a team wendy bump helmet at least or ballistic (ops core is good too) and a counterweight. I have a milsurp rhino mount and j-arm, but there are better ones out there just lots of $$$ for what it is. Illuminator and laser (holosun or DBAL/PEQ) is good, but gives away your position so you will want a good red dot too (NOT LPVO, NOT prism) on a 1/3 co-witness or higher mount for passive shooting. Holosun AEMS, NV compatible aimpoint or EOTech is where it's at. PVS-14 is nice because you can use as hand-held, helmet mount or clip-on with your LPVO if you go weapon mounted. Also, get ready to drop some cash on a night vision setup, it's gonna be like 5000 for entry-level (NOD, mount(s), helmet, illuminator/laser, red dot, riser...then you find out all your field gear lights up like a christmas tree in IR, so add another couple hundred for NIR/Berry compliant gear, etc.)

ETA: You DEFINITELY get you what you pay for, especially when it comes to comfort. You can get an amazon special airsoft helmet but you will pay for it in pain and possibly the setup not working well in short order. Also, keep in mind weight if you are actually going to be humping all this stuff around, it adds up quickly and "ounces equal pounds and pounds equal pain." If this is a range toy then by all means get the quad-tube setup and a 6 lb counterweight/battery, but the disks in your neck and your lower back will not be happy if you're wearing it 8 hours a day.
 
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The infiray is 2nd gen, low FOM (under 2000) if IIRC. It would be a great capability to have, but I would spring for the American made higher FOM Gen III Tubes. They have a longer life and much better performance.
 
NHCraigT said:
Same here. Very happy with it.

Top of the line model with premium specs.
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I got the mid-grade (SLH) one but happened to get a very high FOM (for a civilian device). I am very happy with it. I tried it next to my buddy's high-grade L3 unfilmed and couldn't tell the difference, but there was some ambient light helping out. On a very dark night there would be a difference.
 
This is just personal opinion.

Once in a while I think about NV and always arrive to the same conclusion; costs too much for LARPING.

I can't hunt at night with it.
I am not participating in competitions that need it.
I am surrounded by gun ranges but none allow night shooting.
I don't see myself using it in some sort of home defense situation.
 
Broc said:
This is just personal opinion.

Once in a while I think about NV and always arrive to the same conclusion; costs too much for LARPING.

I can't hunt at night with it.
I am not participating in competitions that need it.
I am surrounded by gun ranges but none allow night shooting.
I don't see myself using it in some sort of home defense situation.
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Yeah I can’t afford it either lol

Although it would be pretty fun in a home invasion situation lol
 
CMEBoston said:
Yeah I can’t afford it either lol

Although it would be pretty fun in a home invasion situation lol
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To me is not about not being able to afford it, I can afford it.

My issue is, why would I dump the money on NV I will not use? ... if I buy something, I want to be able to use it, not just take pretty pictures for NES.

I would rather spend the money on more ammo, training and a nice day time scope / red dot.

NV would have been great when I was out in Michigan hunting. The night before we were off roading, every time we turned there were deer everywhere. But even in that situation, why would I pay to look at deer at night?

But this is my personal opinion.
 
Broc said:
[…]
I would rather spend the money on more ammo, training and a nice day time scope / red dot.

NV would have been great when I was out in Michigan hunting. The night before we were off roading, every time we turned there were deer everywhere. But even in that situation, why would I pay to look at deer at night?

But this is my personal opinion.
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I already have ammo, training, nice scopes and red dots.

It’s time for the LARP final boss.
 
Broc said:
To me is not about not being able to afford it, I can afford it.

My issue is, why would I dump the money on NV I will not use? ... if I buy something, I want to be able to use it, not just take pretty pictures for NES.

I would rather spend the money on more ammo, training and a nice day time scope / red dot.

NV would have been great when I was out in Michigan hunting. The night before we were off roading, every time we turned there were deer everywhere. But even in that situation, why would I pay to look at deer at night?

But this is my personal opinion.
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I don’t think any of its mutually exclusive

Our guns are useless if we don’t know how to use them or have ammunition for the 100% agree

I don’t ever see an end to collecting ammunition or learning, But I often ask myself why am I training? Why am I collecting so much ammo?

You know, you can buy tactical gear and not post pictures of it on here?
Most of the tactical gear threads are nothing but a flex on the poors circle jerk consisting of guys with Gucci gear asking you why “you” even need it lol

I’m not arguing with you and I’m certainly not trying to say I’m right and you’re wrong. I’m just thinking out loud here because I often and found making the same decisions.

And I have decided that I will buy night vision and a ballistic helmet, but mainly so I can see at night on my way to go fishing and I think it would be hilarious to see a lobsterman steaming out in the dark with his orange oil gear on with a ballistic helmet and NVG’s 🤣
 
Broc said:
This is just personal opinion.

Once in a while I think about NV and always arrive to the same conclusion; costs too much for LARPING.

I can't hunt at night with it.
I am not participating in competitions that need it.
I am surrounded by gun ranges but none allow night shooting.
I don't see myself using it in some sort of home defense situation.
Click to expand...
You can night hunt coyote in Maine outside of deer season.

In my opinion, pvs14 is worth it just to look at the stars
 
Broc said:
To me is not about not being able to afford it, I can afford it.

My issue is, why would I dump the money on NV I will not use? ... if I buy something, I want to be able to use it, not just take pretty pictures for NES.

I would rather spend the money on more ammo, training and a nice day time scope / red dot.

NV would have been great when I was out in Michigan hunting. The night before we were off roading, every time we turned there were deer everywhere. But even in that situation, why would I pay to look at deer at night?

But this is my personal opinion.
Click to expand...

I can see that side, but you also get so much capability...think of a SHTF situation, where all the lights are out and you have to pull security or run a patrol at night. With night vision, either an intensifier or thermal, or hopefully both, you will own the night. Without it you are at such a massive disadvantage. For that enormous increase in capability I would a) spend the money and b) find somewhere to train with it. I actually use mine, I have a friend with 500+ acres (in a free state) that we run patrols on, it's such a game changer from using a white light source.
 
Broc said:
This is just personal opinion.

Once in a while I think about NV and always arrive to the same conclusion; costs too much for LARPING.

I can't hunt at night with it.
I am not participating in competitions that need it.
I am surrounded by gun ranges but none allow night shooting.
I don't see myself using it in some sort of home defense situation.
Click to expand...

You are not trying hard enough! Lol.


M1911 said:
I'm not aware of a club that would let you shoot at night on your own and most do not hold night shoots.
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There is a place that does night shoots. I’ve been to one (to lazy/far) to do more at the moment.

I’m poor. So I had no nods and shot with white lights on my guns in the dark.

And no, I will not out the place either in public or via PM. So don’t ask.
 
Broc said:
To me is not about not being able to afford it, I can afford it.

My issue is, why would I dump the money on NV I will not use? ... if I buy something, I want to be able to use it, not just take pretty pictures for NES.

I would rather spend the money on more ammo, training and a nice day time scope / red dot.

NV would have been great when I was out in Michigan hunting. The night before we were off roading, every time we turned there were deer everywhere. But even in that situation, why would I pay to look at deer at night?

But this is my personal opinion.
Click to expand...
100% valid points for guys who don't have the location to shoot regularly at night.

Dont forget the comms guys. Stumping around in the woods with $10K nods and not knowing where your teammates are is pretty silly.
 
Admin said:
100% valid points for guys who don't have the location to shoot regularly at night.

Dont forget the comms guys. Stumping around in the woods with $10K nods and not knowing where your teammates are is pretty silly.
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Comms is usually the first casualty, especially on multi agency incidents. Even with huge budgets and infrastructure out the wazoo, it still always seems to be the #1 challenge.
 
Good advice in here but where's the pricing? A good basic set up you could aim for -

-PVS14 gen 3 (Elbit or L3 Harris in white phosphorous with SNR above 30, FOM above 2000 = $2900 to $3800)
-Head gear (Opscore or Team Wendy bump helmet = $400 to $500. Ballistic gets you to $1000 to $1500)
-Mount that connects J arm to head gear (Wilcox G24, Norotos LoSto, old school rhino mount = $30 to $500)
-J arm that connects PVS14 to mount (Ax14 pro = $140)

Most PVS14 come with head gear and j arm so you can spend as little as $2900 and be very nvg capable. Ultimatenightvision.com sells comm spec L3 Harris PVS14 every month that are really good but have visible blems. They sell out within 24 hours.

Enhance your setup with-

-LAM or laser aiming module mounted on your rifle. You can squeeze by with only need an IR laser but most people also want an illuminator for PID (lots of options but you'll probably spend $1000 to $1800)
-Passive aiming solution to allow you to shoot without a IR signature (Exps3-0 plus a riser is considered gold standard = $800).
-Helmet mounted IR flashlight (up to $400 for a S&S Max precision with SureFire IR/white head)
-Helmet mounted admin light (Princeton Tec MPLS is popular for $60)
-Rifle mounted white light (Cloud Rein 3.0, SureFire M640DFT come to mind at around $275 to $300).
-Helmet mounted ear pro (Ops core amps or Peltor Comm tac for Gucci option = $500 to $1000

It would be really easy to $10k on all of this but you can spend less if you buy stuff second hand. Why get night vision? Cause it's cool AF. If you've never seen or used nvg then you'll be blown away by its abilities. It's a serious force multiplier. This guy, Hop, has really good info on all things NVG and thermal related.


View: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1fZg4dsENUk-QwGs0VdW9_-I_QO_Ongm&si=DPurvfcbLUi6ZyO4
 
For 5k-6k you can get into a solid setup.

Dont look at NV as a stand alone item, instead look at is as a system and NV is just part of it.

PVS-14 $2500-5000
Mount and adapter $100-400
Helmet (ballistic) $500-2000
Helmet (bump) $250-500
IR laser/illuminator (civ models) $400-3800

A lot of people get into night vision and then either upgrade or get out of it after a year with minimal use because they realize they have no ability to shoot with it. Don’t be afraid to buy used gear, you can save a lot of money by doing so.

Look at some NV Facebook pages, ar15.com has some excellent resources, after doing a little bit of studying make some phone calls to places like TNVC and JRH enterprises. Both companies are phenomenal to work with and will give you a education free of charge. They will answer any questions and make recommendations based on the area you live and can also email you videos that are very specific to different specs and what they mean.

The hardest part of the equation to figure out is where can you use night vision and for what purpose. A lot of ranges don’t have any policies pertaining tonight other than shooting past sunset type of rules, but every rule can have exceptions if you’re able to get approval.

Hiking and stargazing at night alone is amazing and can be a lot of fun. But shooting is limited for most people.
Very few people have ever experienced night vision, and the few people who have are basing their opinion on 20 year old technology from when they might have served in the military. When you bring it up to the Board of Directors at any range, you are going to meet very strong hesitation to even consider it and not just give a blanket no statement.
If you have the ability to actually show them night, vision in person, you will be amazed at what you can get accomplished. When they realize with night vision and IR illuminators and lasers, it is very similar to seeing in the day.
 

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