SBR+Trust+Non Licensed Trustees in MA

[Saint]

I am think of setting up a trust in order to protect assests and to register a SBR. But before I do this I need some help.

Do all the trustees in my trust need a Mass Class A? Ex: Husband is a Class A holder and Wife who has equal access to the trust does not have Class A.

Can a non Class A holder shoot the SBR under the direct supervision of a Class A holder?

Thanks alot guys.

 

[Lynne]

Can a non Class A holder shoot the SBR under the direct supervision of a Class A holder?

Thanks alot guys.

You can take anyone shooting (even a minor) as long as the firearms are in your (the class A license holders) possession. Reminder - make sure no one takes a spent casing as a momento...even an empty casing is grounds for arrest if it's found by an LEO. Just let them have the target.

 

[cdkayak]

...even an empty casing is grounds for arrest if it's found by an LEO.

[?]
Please tell me you're joking! From what I've read here I know MA gun laws are strict and crazy, but an empty casing???

CD

 

[Lynne]

...even an empty casing is grounds for arrest if it's found by an LEO.

[?]
Please tell me you're joking! From what I've read here I know MA gun laws are strict and crazy, but an empty casing???

CD

No, sadly, I'm not joking. If you do not have a license, you cannot be in possession of an empty casing.

 

[Moderator]

Lynne not to challenge your knowledge of the law, I know you know way more than me but, How is it possible to buy novelty items that use bullets with now powder such key chains and stuff like that in Massachusetts? Are there laws that prevent that and just aren’t followed?

Respectfully,
B.J.

 

[cdkayak]

Wow, that is sad and frustrating. I'll need to sweep my car next time I drive to MA. I was never worried about emptyies, just the live round that may have fallen out of my range bag.(or that were forgotten)

Thanks for the heads up.
CD

 

[Saint]

Lynne not to challenge your knowledge of the law, I know you know way more than me but, How is it possible to buy novelty items that use bullets with now powder such key chains and stuff like that in Massachusetts? Are there laws that prevent that and just aren’t followed?

Respectfully,
B.J.

I remeber a while back Four Season sold novelty .500 S&W keychains and a Class B or A was needed to buy them.

I am quite sure that all componets of a bullet require a license in MA.

 

[C-pher]

Yes, that's true. That's why I think that GOAL is working on changing the wording in MA law for the componants so it won't be a problem for the people that buy reloading supplies in MA.

 

[KMaurer]

They're called "ammunition components" and Lynne is 100% correct. I suspect that no prosecutor would ever waste his or her time dragging somebody with one of those keychains into court, but I know my son got hassled several times by police about 15 years back. I don't know of any case law (not an intentional pun), but I suspect that defense would argue that with a hole drilled through the case for the chain, it no more constitutes an ammunition component than a piece of copper pipe would.

I'm pretty sure that my next house is going to have to be build along the same design as the one used by Wonko the Sane, in order to keep all the lunatics in this state locked up.

Ken

 

[dvl]

What about powder activated drivers? I have a "hammer" that drives hardened nails into steel, concrete and so on. I believe the charges are .22s.

The Commonwealth is constantly amazing me, it's always got some law that is dumber than I could have imagined.

 

[Lynne]

Since Ken and others already answered, I guess I don't need to now. Although, as far as those key chains go, I honestly don't know about them. I don't know if a law is being broken, or if any LEO's who see them don't know the laws (which is HIGHLY possible as most don't know all the gun laws). However, that being said - forewarned is forearmed folks - just watch any newbie's you take shooting that do not have a license.

Actually - that worked rather well with one students wife who was an anti. She liked shooting (most of them do if you can get them to the range), but when I told her that she couldn't keep the empty .38 shell, she thought I was kidding. When I assured her that I was quite serious, she said "That's assinine." I nodded and said, "Yep, but that's MA for you. And the majority of the laws on the state's books are just as stupid when it comes to lawful individuals." Don't know if it changed her mind on guns or not, but I could tell her brain was clicking away.

 

[Len-2A Training]

BJ, no kidding, even a spent .22LR case is still legally considered ammunition, punishable by a long jail term without an FID or LTC! I have a .40S&W keychain sitting on my desk . . . bought it at Concord NH gun show for the sole purpose of bringing it to the next <anti> gun hearings I attend at the statehouse to point out their lunacy. It has a spent primer, a real bullet and was a real .40 casing so even though it contains two large holes in the side, it is still a number of ammo components and requires a LTC to possess.

Back in the 1970s the power hammer shells DID require an FID card. Sometime in the past they were made exempt. So you can now legally nail someone with a power hammer and not get prosecuted for failure to have a FID/LTC!

 

[Lynne]

Back in the 1970s the power hammer shells DID require an FID card. Sometime in the past they were made exempt. So you can now legally nail someone with a power hammer and not get prosecuted for failure to have a FID/LTC!

Hell of a thing to try and conceal tho. [lol] [lol] [lol]

 

[Len-2A Training]

Lynne, yes the power cord dangling down your leg would be a give-away!

[lol]

 

[Moderator]

That’s crazy. I feel kind of luck in a way also. I have had a 30-30 keychain that I converted to a necklace hanging from my rear view mirror since I was 19. I just got my LTC last year. I have been pulled over um a "few" times and never had a problem. It had always been right next to my dog tags. I assume Lynne would be correct that most officials just aren’t aware of the law themselves. Or maybe it's my good looks and charm that keeps me out of trouble..... O.k. so they dont know the law. It's not like every camera breaks when pointed at me. There were only like 7 or 8 of them.

 

[dvl]

Hmmm, no power cord. That's what the powder charges are for. And it's not that big.

 

[Adam_MA]

Yeah... Mine could easily be concealed under my shirt, and they are true .22 blanks... I tried it in one of my pistols and it chambered correctly.

Adam

 

[Chris]

Actually, Ammunition has a bunch of issues that are totally stupid.

1) Any component is defined as ammunition and requires the license. And heaven forbid your kid takes one to school for show and tell.

2) You need a license to sell ammunition. So, any retailer who sells those keychains (Like Spags does/did for example) is comitting a felony for the sale, and then another felony for not checking to see if the buyer has a license. This also applies to private sales. If you sell off old ammo to a buddy, you are comitting a felony unless you have the license. About the only exemption is using ammo in a training situation where the ammo is used on site and not taken away.

3) In the Fire Marshal's CMRs it requires that all ammunition be kept locked up. How this has anything to do with fire safety is beyond me, but that is the rule. Here's the kicker. Ammo in their factory cardboard bozes pose little if any danger to fire personel responding to a house fire. The box will contain most of the pieces, and even if it doesn't the regular fire safety gear is more than enough protection from the casings and primers that might get popped around. However, stick that same ammo into a sealed locked container, and depending on the structure of the container, could become a pipe bomb, large projectile, etc.

But hey, the people who write these laws are proud of the fact that they don't know anything about guns. And I'm all too happy to point out to students just how stupid their legislators are.

And lets not forget Tom Reiley's personal attack against mail order companies. Seems odd that a state can not force a mail order company to collect sales tax (or Massachusetts Use Tax) on sales to Massachusetts Residents, but a mail order company suddenly needs to comply with Massachusetts license law to sell products to Massachusetts residents?

 

[Lynne]

But hey, the people who write these laws are proud of the fact that they don't know anything about guns. And I'm all too happy to point out to students just how stupid their legislators are.

It does give one a certain sense of satisfaction, doesn't it?

 

[Hawgleg44]

Yes, possession of any ammunition or black powder component is considered possession of ammunition without a permit, which holds the same penalty of possession of a handgun without a permit!

So, all the kids that run out and pick up the spent blank casings at the Memorial Day parades are felons. If you are in possession of black powder patches, yes, PIECES OF CLOTH, you are a felon!

I highly doubt that any prosecutor would actively prosecute someone on a simple violation of this law. Hopefully, the judge would throw him/her out of court for something this rediculous.

Oh, BTW, if you are in possession of an illegal machine gun and commit no other crime, you can possibly be sent to prison for a longer period of time than most murderers are eligable for, LIFE!

One of these days, I'll have to dig out my old books from the academy and post some of the more rediculous crimes and penalties in MA. You would be amazed, or maybe not if you already live in MA!

 

[Republic of Mass]

3) In the Fire Marshal's CMRs it requires that all ammunition be kept locked up. How this has anything to do with fire safety is beyond me, but that is the rule. Here's the kicker. Ammo in their factory cardboard bozes pose little if any danger to fire personel responding to a house fire. The box will contain most of the pieces, and even if it doesn't the regular fire safety gear is more than enough protection from the casings and primers that might get popped around. However, stick that same ammo into a sealed locked container, and depending on the structure of the container, could become a pipe bomb, large projectile, etc.

You ARE kidding, correct?

You're saying its safer to store live amunition in a paper box than a steel safe? (regarding firefighter safety)

 

[Len-2A Training]

No joke. It is simple physics . . .

The reason why a bullet travels out the barrel at high speed is that the cartridge is reinforced on 3 sides and only has 1 direction for expansion . . . thru the barrel.

Now contain the same cartridges on ALL 4 sides under high heat (fires get up in the 2-3000F range in some cases, and you have an explosive bomb. Now if the safe doesn't rise in temp above 300F, I am not sure what would happen, but even the best consumer safes are usually only rated for a limited amount of time at high temp before they break down.