Safes as they are simply are not enough

[Republic of Mass]

Working today, a message came through LEAPS (Mass Law enforcement computer network) about a stolen gun.

It was locked in an "Add on" safe, with a trigger-lock. Also got 200 rnds of .45 for the gun. I forget what model gun it was, but I think it was somewhat decent.

Some shitbag now has a nice piece.

I keep my only handgun in one of those Smith and Wesson versavaults (modified, doenst say S&W on it) on my nightstand. My ammo stays in another lockbox in my closet. Im going to change that as soon as I get back from my business trip this week. Im going to get a new safe, and anchor it to something.

I think for a Gun safe to be UL listed, it needs to withstand 5 minutes of prying. Now, this nitwit has all the time in the world to get the safe open.

 

[FPrice]

Im going to change that as soon as I get back from my business trip this week. Im going to get a new safe, and anchor it to something.

Nothing is perfect. I have heard of thieves hooking BIG safes up to trucks and yanking them out that way. Ever see the videos of criminals doing that to ATMs?

But in general the bigger, heavier, and more secure, the better.

 

[Cross-X]

Hey, Republic of MA, have you ever had your VersaVault stick open?

Mine is on this jag where it unlocks just fine, but the mechanism no longer thows the locking bolts back into their locked position.

I guess maybe the batteries are dying, but I can't be sure without changing them.

 

[Republic of Mass]

Sounds like batteries to me

Does it do it with the key?

The device is drivenb by a DC servo. It pulls on the latch and releases it, then reverses to reset itself.

No, ive never had it stick

I have had it stick down a few times. There was a 1-week span in which I didnt open it at all. It got stuck down. I had to wait the 30 seconds then try again prying it open. I now leave it open unless its in use. also makes it less-enticing in the event anyone does break in.
The gun is never in there without me being home, but still. one less thing to get stolen in the event of a break.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Safes

There are separate UL ratings for the box and the lock, with the former being rated on both security and fire resistance.

Locks are Group II, II-M, or I rated as "manipulation resistant to 15 minutes of professional manipulation attack", "resistant to 2 hours profesisonal attack" or "manipulation proof." The later generally require an extra final action like turning a butterfly know in the center of the dial to open them. In all but the rarest of cases, the difference between a II and a II-M is theoretical only, unless you're dealing with a pro or someone who has the Mas-Hamilton soft-drill manipulation system. (about $7K, not including the laptop to run it). If I was special ordering a safe, I'd get the II-M, but I wouldn't pass up a good deal because it had a Gorup-II.

Add a "-R" to the rating for resistance to radiological reading of the dials, at the expense of reduced long term durability. Group I locks are rare on home gun safes, except for some of the electronic locks which carry such a rating.

Boxes are rated either "residential security container", or something like TL15. "Residential security container" can include something with 10 gauge walls that can be opened in minutes with hand-carriable power tools. A TL15 takes 15 minutes to either open the door or create a 4" hoe with toold one person can carry. TRTL30 include torch resittance for 30 minutes. TXTL15 is explosive and tool resistance (and I think tool as well). Add an "X6" to the rating and all sides have been tested.

It's rare to get a TL15 or better for a home safe - even the Liberty, Champion, Browning, etc. are just residential security containers. Weight and price go up, and volume go down as you get to higer ratings. There is a wide variety of safe quality and security available with the "residential security container" rating.

Fire ratings are another matter, and everyone seems to use someone other than UL. I belive Liberty uses Omega Point and Champion brags about how the furnace is "independently ownet" (whoppie! they rented the facility where they self certified).

Don't spend too much time worrying about the lock if it's a Group II or better, or the door/bolts if they are 3/4" or so or better (it's not like boxes are breeched by forcing the door to overpower the bolts). Pay attention to the overall weight, thickness of the side door (the one the felon will try to open , and your ability to bolt it to something solid. The most common medium/high end "home gun safes" are 10 gauge, with some thinner 12 gauge ones available, as well as higher end ones with 3/16" or 1/4" steel walls.

Eastern Security Safe in Mendon has a great selection, and their delivery crew is top notch in terms of customer service. The only negative I have heard about them was a customer who was disappointed the owner did not go beyond the letter of the warrantee and provide some help when his lock failed (lockout) after the expiration of the formal warrantee. In fairness though, I don't think most car dealers will do anything except charge full price for service the day after your warrantee expires.

 

[C-pher]

Yea, my safe has that type II lock, 1/2 inch steel door and two inch wall thinckness with I think 1/4 inch inside and outside of the safe. Ten 2 inch locking bolts and a fire rating of Merucury Class II. I think that that only means that if the fire is 1275 degrees, the inside won't get above 300 for 90 min.

And yes, it's only got that Residential Security Container burglary classification.

But the damn thing weighs amost 1000 pounds. I was just glad that my wife works for a medical equipment repair company. They let me borrow a dolly rated up to 2500 pounds. I don't know how I would have gotten it into the house otherwise.