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SAF, FPC sue NYC over "proper cause" carry license requirement

DispositionMatrix

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Greco v. City of New York.
https://www.saf.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/127127918216.pdf
1. This 42 U.S.C. § 1983 action challenges the inability of ordinary law-abiding
citizens to obtain licenses to carry handguns in New York City. As explained herein, law-abiding
citizens have a fundamental right to bear arms—including, specifically, operable modern
handguns—for the “core” purpose of self-protection. The only way that a private citizen can
exercise this right in New York City is by obtaining a license from the New York City Police
Department. To obtain this license, the person must (among other things) meet a highly
restrictive “proper cause” standard that requires a showing of special or heightened need. This
standard acts to ban all typical and average law-abiding citizens from obtaining licenses as they,
by definition, are not able to show special or heightened need. However, all people, not just those
with special or heightened needs, have a fundamental right to bear arms by carrying handguns,
away from their homes and in public, for the purpose of self-defense.
SAF, FPC CHALLENGING RESTRICTIVE N.Y. CITY CARRY LAW IN FEDERAL LAWSUIT
SAF and FPC are joined by George Greco, a private citizen in New York. Named as defendants are the City of New York and Police Commissioner Dermot Shea, in his official capacity. The complaint was filed in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York. Plaintiffs are represented by attorney David Jensen.

The lawsuit challenges the inability of ordinary law-abiding citizens to obtain licenses to carry handguns in New York City. While honest citizens have a fundamental right to bear arms for self-protection, the complaint explains, the New York Police Department requires applicants to provide a “proper cause,” which amounts to demonstrating a special or heightened need. As arbitrarily enforced, this requirement prevents average citizens from obtaining a carry permit, which violates their fundamental right to bear arms outside the home.

“The right to bear arms must be available to all citizens in New York, not just wealthy people and celebrities,” said SAF Founder and Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb. “Like other rights protected by the Constitution, that right is not limited to the confines of one’s home. Ever since the SAF Supreme Court victory in McDonald v. City of Chicago ten years ago, the Second Amendment absolutely applies in New York.”
 

snax

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Absolutely! My daughter lives/works there and I'm praying she leaves that cesspool soon!
Yeah my buddy is nypd he's got 3 left till retirement. Can't wait. Ever since DeBlasio took over It's gotten worse,and worse for them. Luckily he's got a sweet assignment.
 
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LLF

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The Holy Grail of licenses is an unrestricted NYC concealed carry. In addition to Tyler and Perry Trump is rumored to have a license although he is now a Florida resident).
 

AHM

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... Trump is rumored to have a license although he is now a Florida resident
I think it's pretty safe to say that he maintains a residence in NYC.
r.mahaux-trump-family.jpg
 
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I think it's pretty safe to say that he maintains a residence in NYC.
r.mahaux-trump-family.jpg
I know the attorney in this case and he is one of us.
Trump admitted to owning two handguns in NY; an unspecified .38 revolver and an HK .45. Howard Stern and Robert Deniro also have unrestricted NYC carry licenses, but what they own/carry is unknown.
 
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There are two issues that I see with the case-

1. Does the 2A entitle one to carry outside the home and if so, under what restrictions?

2. Does a need based requirement, where "need" includes celebrity status, wealth, fame or knowing the right people violate equal protection under the law?

I remember that despite his legal scrapes, the interviewing officer who handled Sean Penn's application described him as a "very impressive applicant". Hiraldo Rivera was denied, but he did it for a story and just filled out the form, and did not try to pull any connections. I spoke with a retired NYPC licensing officer a couple of decades ago (socially - he was in the gun industry when I knew him) and he told me he was told that all of his applicants would be "reviewed" if he approved more than something like 25% of them .... and that included restriction approvals.

I also remember that some celebrity (not sure who) who did not even live in NY was met by the NYPD backstage so they could take the fingerprints to complete his NYC carry permit application that was subsequently approved.
 

LLF

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This was big news just a couple years ago:

I'm shocked... SHOCKED! to find out that the NYPD gun licensing division was corrupt!
In my opinion the entire firearms licensing scheme as practiced by numerous states is corrupt. Like it or not the right to keep and bear arms is a constitutional right and s**t-ass governments like NYC (and MA) are unlawfully depriving their citizens of a constitutional right by making it practically impossible for the ordinary law-abiding though "unconnected" citizen to exercise that right.
 
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The Holy Grail of licenses is an unrestricted NYC concealed carry. In addition to Tyler and Perry Trump is rumored to have a license although he is now a Florida resident).
Trump does a NYC carry license. Don, Jr. was denied one.

Trump owns and occasionally carried a HK USP .45 when he was younger. Prior to that he had a S&W revolver of some sort. He used to shoot a now closed gun club in Manhattan. Trump learned to shoot at the New York Military Academy.

He was anti-rifle until Don set him straight.
 

VetteGirlMA

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As much as I would love to see this case go before scotus, I see a repeat of the 2019 NYS Pistol & Rifle case where NYC comes up with some legalistic minimalist tweak in the law and the case is rendered moot just like the last one. The left only goes to the mat if they feel they will win. They would rather live with a patchwork of insanely complex gun laws designed to jam up regular people than have to face the constitution face on. I see less 2A cases going to scotus maybe it's the Amy Coney Barrett effect so I wouldn't be surprised if more cases die at the circuit court level and when facing an impending scotus will do the least amount of legal tweaking to get the case off the books while keeping as much of the existing laws on the books. I will gladly say I am wrong when we win another 2A case, but that's what I think.
 
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One possible NYC reaction to a favorable ruling would be to treat everyone equally by not issuing any licenses (assuming the ruling was about equal treatment, rather than the right to carry). I'd rather see a "nobody gets a permit" system that one where the system is "just fine" from the perspective of the very rich, celebrities and upper upper class because "they got theirs". Who knows, denying them their special treatment might turn some of them into spokespeople for our side.

It would be amusing to see A listers squeal like stuck pigs when they would be told they are no longer important enough to be armed.

There is some precedent for this way of thinking. There was a move in the NY assembly years ago to "de-restrict" all NY state and city carry permits. Then mayor Koch announced that if the bill was passed, every NYC restricted pistol permit would be immediately revoked.

At least Canada, eh? is more equal than NYC. Being a household name, knowing a high ranking police official or winning the World Cup, an Oscar, or racking up a bunch of platinum records will not get you a carry permit in Toronto.
 

VetteGirlMA

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One possible NYC reaction to a favorable ruling would be to treat everyone equally by not issuing any licenses (assuming the ruling was about equal treatment, rather than the right to carry). I'd rather see a "nobody gets a permit" system that one where the system is "just fine" from the perspective of the very rich, celebrities and upper upper class because "they got theirs". Who knows, denying them their special treatment might turn some of them into spokespeople for our side.

It would be amusing to see A listers squeal like stuck pigs when they would be told they are no longer important enough to be armed.

There is some precedent for this way of thinking. There was a move in the NY assembly years ago to "de-restrict" all NY state and city carry permits. Then mayor Koch announced that if the bill was passed, every NYC restricted pistol permit would be immediately revoked.

At least Canada, eh? is more equal than NYC. Being a household name, knowing a high ranking police official or winning the World Cup, an Oscar, or racking up a bunch of platinum records will not get you a carry permit in Toronto.

SCOTUS punted on the MA licensing case and if that isn't the living definition of a clearly unfair system then I don't know exactly how many volts of electricity it takes to get SCOTUS to want to take on a case like this.
 
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There are two issues that I see with the case-

1. Does the 2A entitle one to carry outside the home and if so, under what restrictions?

2. Does a need based requirement, where "need" includes celebrity status, wealth, fame or knowing the right people violate equal protection under the law?

I remember that despite his legal scrapes, the interviewing officer who handled Sean Penn's application described him as a "very impressive applicant". Hiraldo Rivera was denied, but he did it for a story and just filled out the form, and did not try to pull any connections. I spoke with a retired NYPC licensing officer a couple of decades ago (socially - he was in the gun industry when I knew him) and he told me he was told that all of his applicants would be "reviewed" if he approved more than something like 25% of them .... and that included restriction approvals.

I also remember that some celebrity (not sure who) who did not even live in NY was met by the NYPD backstage so they could take the fingerprints to complete his NYC carry permit application that was subsequently approved.


I know of several celebrities that maintain both a residence here in Texas and One in NYC, Andy they have a license for both NYC and Texas. It shouldn’t be to hard to guess who they are. One has a very famous daddy too.
 
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