I'm going to post a new thread for the Joint Committee stuff, as much as we'll have insight into it.
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S 2265 (aka HB4285, 4278, 4121) out of Senate Ways and Means (FID Suitability)
- Thread starter Squire
- Start date
Right. Like the 40 day turnaround time. It's not a law without a penalty. And we all know the state doesn't impose penalties upon itself!
Yo, here is a new thread for the next Episode in the Epic Saga.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/256207-House-Review-of-SB-2265
Let's try to keep the commentary about "shall not be infringed" (hey, I'm guilty of it) so we can focus on the tactics of reaching the House Reps. and delivering the message as effectively to the Senate that individual Constitutional Rights are more imporant than the will (or lack thereof) of a spineless majority.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/256207-House-Review-of-SB-2265
Let's try to keep the commentary about "shall not be infringed" (hey, I'm guilty of it) so we can focus on the tactics of reaching the House Reps. and delivering the message as effectively to the Senate that individual Constitutional Rights are more imporant than the will (or lack thereof) of a spineless majority.
Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
just sent a email off the my rep - John Rogers
What will the new C&R process now look like?
Is a FA10 required when you purchase a C&R gun?
Is a FA10 required when you purchase a C&R gun?
Not clear to me how anything in S.2265 would affect the 03FFL C&R process....at least I haven't seen anything in there.
People will die? He owns a gun? Sounds like a threat. Not very suitable
Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
Amendment 30 is the C&R amendment. What it does is to exempt 03FFL's from the requirement that a gun must be previously owned in Mass in order for a 01 dealer to transfer it to you. They would still require an FA10. #30 will not affect FTF sales if they are still legal.
Many dealers "break the law" by transferring 01 to 03 with no paperwork, legal federally but not on the state level and the rules for C&R says you must follow all state laws which require firearms from out of state to go through an 01 dealer in Mass. Many dealers don't follow this but many do.
I have had 01 dealers tell me that they follow the law and cannot transfer a non mass compliant gun. #30 exempts us on C&R guns from the provisions of Chapter 140 so we can buy ANY C&R gun no matter where it is from through a dealer. I put this in just in case we lost FTF but also to make sure that if I find an C&R firearm I wouldn't have any problems getting it. I have had 01 dealers in other states refuse to send to 03's they often will only send to 01's and then if the 01 here won't transfer a non-compliant gun you're toast.
#30 puts us on par with 01 dealers and Museums for C&R guns when transferring through a dealer. There is no downside I can see as FTF is not affected
Thanks Ben for the thoughtful answer.
Just so I am clear (and a NOOB), once a gun is purchased with a C&R, I have to go to a 01FFL to get it transferred to me?
I thought that an EFA10 could be used.
Just so I am clear (and a NOOB), once a gun is purchased with a C&R, I have to go to a 01FFL to get it transferred to me?
I thought that an EFA10 could be used.
Off to the new thread
Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
Depends
There are 2 ways to buy a gun in Mass Face to Face or through a dealer. If you buy it FTF you simply do an eFA10 with the seller, if from a dealer you do it there, doesn't matter whether C&R or not.
But with a C&R gun from say Nevada, if you buy it in Nevada on your C&R in person you just transport it back here and do the registration only FA10 when you get here and put it in your bound book. If you have it shipped here some dealers will ship directly to you but others will not, if they ship direct to you, you simply do the FA10 when you get it. The law is that interstate sales have to go to a dealer so if the 01 won't send to your 03 address you need to have a 01 dealer to accept it and do the transfer, some will some won't depending on whether the gun is mass compliant. #30 takes that out of the equation so if you have to go through a dealer for whatever reason you won't have to worry about the compliance issues.
There are 2 ways to buy a gun in Mass Face to Face or through a dealer. If you buy it FTF you simply do an eFA10 with the seller, if from a dealer you do it there, doesn't matter whether C&R or not.
But with a C&R gun from say Nevada, if you buy it in Nevada on your C&R in person you just transport it back here and do the registration only FA10 when you get here and put it in your bound book. If you have it shipped here some dealers will ship directly to you but others will not, if they ship direct to you, you simply do the FA10 when you get it. The law is that interstate sales have to go to a dealer so if the 01 won't send to your 03 address you need to have a 01 dealer to accept it and do the transfer, some will some won't depending on whether the gun is mass compliant. #30 takes that out of the equation so if you have to go through a dealer for whatever reason you won't have to worry about the compliance issues.
Just meet and complete the transaction at your local public library.
I think lagrangian is correct. The Senate version goes to the House for a vote of concurrence. If it passed that vote, it goes to the Gov. If the House does not concur, it goes to committee. The committee can come up with whatever changes they want. Once it leaves the committee, the Senate and House must vote on it again. At that point, nothing can be added or taken out. The Bill that comes out of the joint committee is the next thing we need to worry about if the House does not vote to concur with the Senate version.
I'd really like a refund of the $100 application fee, that should be a good incentive to make the turnaround time.
It seems to me that you understand this process, however some wording in these posts give off some confusion or mis-impression about what is legal. I'll note these and try to clarify below.
No a C&R does NOT have to have those guns (from out of state) go thru an 01 dealer in MA. There is no such MA law (currently). I can buy from Grannie Smith in Maine if I want, bring it back and FA-10 as registration. It is Federal Law that mandates that interstate firearms must go thru an FFL and a C&R qualifies for that if the gun is C&R.
See above comments.
No a C&R does NOT have to have those guns (from out of state) go thru an 01 dealer in MA. There is no such MA law (currently). I can buy from Grannie Smith in Maine if I want, bring it back and FA-10 as registration. It is Federal Law that mandates that interstate firearms must go thru an FFL and a C&R qualifies for that if the gun is C&R.
See above comments.
StevieP
NES Member
I also picked up on the author's bias, and called him out on it in the comment section.
GlockJock
NES Member
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No. An 03FFL (C&R) can buy eligible guns directly from anyone. In MA, they just have to do an FA-10 for registration. However, since this is MA, many out of state people (01 FFLs and others) will not ship directly to a 03FFL.
Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
LenS
I stand corrected, I guess it is mostly whether to other party will recognize the 03FFL most will some won't. But the reason for #30 was for those instances where a dealer or private party in another state, or even the same in this state, insist on going through an 01 dealer. That has happened to me and as the seller they have that right. Sometimes it is a comfort thing sometimes it is confusion on the laws. #30 was to address if you find the gun you have always wanted but it is not Mass compliant and the person selling it insists on going through a dealer you can still get it. Also it was anticipating a possible requirement of all sales having to go through an 01 dealer - better to have it there and not need it, than need it and not have it.
I stand corrected, I guess it is mostly whether to other party will recognize the 03FFL most will some won't. But the reason for #30 was for those instances where a dealer or private party in another state, or even the same in this state, insist on going through an 01 dealer. That has happened to me and as the seller they have that right. Sometimes it is a comfort thing sometimes it is confusion on the laws. #30 was to address if you find the gun you have always wanted but it is not Mass compliant and the person selling it insists on going through a dealer you can still get it. Also it was anticipating a possible requirement of all sales having to go through an 01 dealer - better to have it there and not need it, than need it and not have it.
Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
My point exactly. #30 anticipates that and exempts us from the pre-owned in MA for C&R guns. As Len said if the other party will ship direct to us or we can do it in person then we are all set but sometimes they will not and 30 is for those times.
Do chiefs now have to provide a reason for denial or restrictions? And what's new with pepper spray?
only thing new with pepper spray is legal Aliens can purchase it (with an FID card I assume?) still treated as ammunition
these politicians hate pepper spray, or they are trying to find a way to make money off it which is my guess
not sure on the reasoning stipulation for denials/restrictions, need some clarification on that as well
You did good (as did Jim) on this one, don't get me wrong. I figured out that you knew what you were stating here, but the wording was confusing.
Even if all this passes with #30, there will still be MANY out-of-state dealers who will refuse to ship to C&Rs and NUMEROUS MA Dealers who will likewise refuse to transfer C&Rs to C&R FFL holders. One of my MA Gun Law seminar students (an attorney and NES'r) printed out all of MA gun laws (no annotations, strictly the laws themselves) and it was 250 pgs. Most dealers in MA or elsewhere just refuse to "waste time" reading and trying to comprehend all that info and nothing that we or the MA legislature does will change that.
EJFudd
NES Member
So is it worth getting a C&R or not? Or a better question: Does this (#30) make a C&R more useful or less useful in MA? If I can now buy out-of-state C&R's in MA through an 01FFL without having to worry about the "lists", why bother getting a C&R?
Or am I missing/misreading something?
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
So is it worth getting a C&R or not? Or a better question: Does this (#30) make a C&R more useful or less useful in MA? If I can now buy out-of-state C&R's in MA through an 01FFL without having to worry about the "lists", why bother getting a C&R?
Or am I missing/misreading something?
The biggest advantage is that the C&R lets you avoid the transfer fee that an FFL will charge. The C&R only costs $30/3 years, so if you're planning on buying at least 2 C&R handguns you'll be saving money on transfer fees. Plus, it's very convenient to have it shipped to your door!
In order to get a non-compliant C&R firearm from a 01FFL, you must be a 03FFL.
Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
So is it worth getting a C&R or not? Or a better question: Does this (#30) make a C&R more useful or less useful in MA? If I can now buy out-of-state C&R's in MA through an 01FFL without having to worry about the "lists", why bother getting a C&R?
Or am I missing/misreading something?
You cannot buy any used gun through a dealer in Mass unless it was previously owned in Massachusetts and many dealers require proof from the seller of ownership or registration. Some dealers will ignore the lists but they risk fines and their license. If you do a FTF you don't need an 03 but you cannot do a FTF for a sale from out of state. No dealer who is following the law can transfer a gun that is not mass-compliant, post 1998 guns have to be on the list while pre 1998 guns (ALL C&R guns) have to have been previously owned and documented in Mass either with an FA10 Bluecard or bill of sale. No dealer can legally transfer one to a FID/LTC holder in Mass that is not compliant.
#30 makes a C&R more useful in some situations and if FTF ever ends then it will be necessary to get any used gun that is not mass compliant.
I think it is $30 well spent
Quiet
Banned
I think the Justice Department should send a community representative to investigatge this threat against people exercising their 2A rights. Nobody has the right to make such a threat. Next thing you know, he'll be hanging the President in effigy outside of an outhouse in a parade.
I know that they have parking lots at most, but I did not know that they have rest stops at the library. Another reason to avoid them like the plague.
I wonder if the recognition of collectors is the result of the 50 letters I've written in the last two years detailing that collectors would be seriously impacted by one gun a month and other legislation. Probably 50 others of you did the same thing: guess that's what it takes to make any progress.
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