S 2265 (aka HB4285, 4278, 4121) out of Senate Ways and Means (FID Suitability)

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

In order to get a non-compliant C&R firearm from a 01FFL, you must be a 03FFL.

Only if they will do a FFL to FFL transfer, many will not, even though BATFE says it is legal.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I wonder if the recognition of collectors is the result of the 50 letters I've written in the last two years detailing that collectors would be seriously impacted by one gun a month and other legislation. Probably 50 others of you did the same thing: guess that's what it takes to make any progress.

I think it partly that, and also the amendment was exactly what I wrote up and gave to Timilty in a 2 hour meeting with him over lunch about 4 months ago and he said he would put it in as an amendment to Chapter 140 (?). The only change he made to the original amendment was yesterday when one of his people called me and said the lawyers didn't like the amendment as it was too "loose" and I suggested adding the "from a dealer licensed" to specify you only are exempt from the list when you go through a dealer (which is the only place it counts anyway - doesn't apply to FTF)

He probably did see that there was more than just me pushing him for this, that is where writing letters and keeping after them is good.

 

[Palladin]

State House News

SENATE PASSES GUN BILL, DROPS POLICE CHIEF DISCRETION FOR RIFLES

By Matt Murphy
STATE HOUSE NEWS SERVICE

STATE HOUSE, BOSTON, JULY 17, 2014…. The Senate passed a comprehensive anti-gun violence bill on Thursday that strengthens background checks and seeks to improve school safety, but also dropped a key provision from House legislation that would have given police chiefs more discretion to deny rifle permits.

The late change to the bill appeared to be enough to secure the support of the local chapter of the National Rifle Association, but gun control advocates blasted senators for weakening the legislation in the face of mounting pressure from gun owners.

Sen. James Timilty, a Walpole Democrat who carried the bill in the Senate, said he supported removing the provision that would allow police chiefs discretion in issuing firearms licenses for rifles. The bill still allows chiefs discretion in issuing handgun licenses.“This was something that I felt very strongly about,” Timilty told reporters, stating that the amended bill would “reflect the constitution.” Asked if he expected to receive the support of the Gun Owners Action League after the change, Timilty said, “I would imagine that many of their members would be happy if they calmly view the totality of what we did.”

“There was no pressure from angry gun owners,” Timilty added.

Under current law, local licensing authorities must give people who pass a background check a firearms identification card. Police chiefs, however, have the discretion to issue a license to carry a handgun. The House bill, and the bill that emerged earlier this week from Senate Ways and Means, proposed to extend the same discretion for handguns to firearm identification cards for rifles and shotguns.

The Senate voted 28-10 for a Sen. Michael Moore amendment to remove that section of the bill, while retaining the ability of police chiefs to deny FID cards if the applicant fits into a category on the prohibited persons list, such as someone convicted of a felony. The overall bill cleared the Senate on a voice vote, and is now likely destined for a conference committee with the House and just 14 days left in the formal session.

The bill also requires suicide prevention training for school personnel and improved communication between schools and law enforcement in the event of an emergency. Every school district would be required to have at least one school resource officer, except vocational school which can share with their participating municipalities.

The Massachusetts Coalition to Prevent Gun Violence said that while it supported the inclusion of background checks for private gun sales and the ability to trace guns used in crimes it could not support the amended Senate bill.

“The Mass. Coalition to Prevent Gun Violence is disappointed by the Senate’s actions today, which significantly weaken the gun violence prevention legislation passed by the House. Removing discretion from police chiefs makes it more difficult to keep rifles and handguns out of the hands of those who pose a risk of suicide or domestic violence, in addition to the public at large,” the coalition said in a statement.

Jim Wallace, executive director of the Gun Owners Action League, said it could be the first time in state history that the organization has supported a gun control bill of this magnitude in Massachusetts.

“For the most part, we said today if we could change this one paragraph, we’re going to make history. Today we made history,” Wallace said. “There’s a couple small amendments I want to look at, but I think we’re there.”

GOAL took a “neutral” position on the House gun bill, but hardened its stance as the bill moved into the Senate and vowed to fight to remove the “suitability determination” powers for police chiefs from the legislation. Wallace said GOAL had not been overruled by the NRA, which had a representative at the State House Thursday.

Asked about the lobbying effort over the past week in the Senate, Wallace said, “I never like to use the word pressure because it means I’m bullying somebody. I think our opinion certainly was there. I think our members made the calls and the emails that they needed to make. And it was an education process too. It’s not just a matter of slamming your fist on the table and demanding somebody vote some way.”

Sen. Anthony Petruccelli, an East Boston Democrat who voted against the Moore amendment because Boston Police Commissioner William Evans thought discretion was an important piece of the bill, said he would have support the bill had it been roll called.

“I think that Sen. Timilty did a real good job coming up with a comprehensive reform bill that will make it safer for kids but not infringe upon the second amendment rights of lawful gun owners in Massachusetts. I think it’s a great balance,” Petruccelli said.

Sen. Cynthia Creem, a Newton Democrat, called the Moore amendment “a huge step backward” and said she didn’t know how she would vote on the bill if the suitability standard section isn’t added back by the conference committee.

“I understand the NRA weighed in and that was some influence to people,” Creem said. “Frankly, it wasn’t until today that I had any inkling that that amendment would have any traction. Obviously I was not lobbied by the NRA.”

Sen. Stephen Brewer, of Barre, said he would not have supported any legislation that he thought would unfairly infringe on the rights of his constituents to legally carry weapons for recreation, and suggested the Moore amendment was the opening he was looking for to allow him to support the bill and improve safety for children.

Senate Minority Leader Bruce Tarr said the bill would make licensing more sensible and sends mental health information to the national background check database. Tarr also noted a provision that requires private gun sales to take place at either a licensed dealer or using a “web portal.”“I think in the past, these kinds of bills have been very narrowly focused, and have sought to achieve one objective or another and have been somewhat divisive. I think in this case, we have a comprehensive bill that addresses some subjects that have been very elusive over the years, and some that needed to be addressed, like mental health issues, like how do we respond effectively to gun issues in schools,” Tarr said. “I think rather than being a divisive exercise, this was a unifying exercise.”Tarr, who often calls for roll calls on items up for a vote in the Senate, said he “absolutely” would have supported the final version of the bill if there had been a roll call, and he said members were already recorded on one of the “divisive” issues, so a roll call on the final bill could arguably be seen as “perfunctory.”“I think once that issue was addressed, there wasn’t a need to take a vote on something I think the Senate as a whole felt very strongly about,” Tarr said.

National Rifle Association lobbyist John Hohenwarter the Senate’s changes were “positive for gun owners,” and said the bill is “in much better shape than it was when it came over from the House.” Hohenwarter said the “web portal” is an “interesting concept” and said there are “unanswered questions” about how the federal background database compliance would work.

[Andy Metzger contributed reporting]

-END-
07/17/2014


Serving the working press since 1910

http://www.statehousenews.com

 

[mattyw]

State House News

that's a good read, creem can **** off

 

[EJFudd]

In order to get a non-compliant C&R firearm from a 01FFL, you must be a 03FFL.

Okay... damn! I totally missed that.

#30 makes a C&R more useful in some situations and if FTF ever ends then it will be necessary to get any used gun that is not mass compliant. I think it is $30 well spent

It sounds like I still need the 03FFL to obtain the C&R's I'm looking for. Thanks guys.

 

[JJ4]

that's a good read, creem can **** off

Agreed.


Also, what's with all this NRA talk in the news? The NRA had pretty much NOTHING to do with influencing the bill as far as I can tell. The NRA can **** off as well if they keep taking credit for other people's work.

 

[rlee]

The NRA gets to claim credit for work done by its affiliate, but how does GOAL benefit from the NRA association?

 

[lancecolonel]

that's a good read, creem can **** off

i love how people like her have the reaction to the words NRA like "ZOMG!!!11! MARTIAN BODY SNATCHERS HAVE INVADED OUR SACRED HILL AND POSSESSED SOME OF US, MAKING US APPROVE OF BABY KILLING POLICIES!!!!11!!"
do these people really believe the NRA does anything in mass other than maybe insuring a few gun clubs (and thusly requiring NRA membership for members)?

 

[jasons]

Agreed.


Also, what's with all this NRA talk in the news? The NRA had pretty much NOTHING to do with influencing the bill as far as I can tell. The NRA can **** off as well if they keep taking credit for other people's work.

They didn't, but mentioning them gets the moonbats all riled up and riled up moonbats amuse me. The NRA (or more accurately the NRA-ILA,) is supposed to focus on national level stuff. It's GOAL's job to focus on MA stuff, and they're doing a pretty damn good job lately.

(Frankly, if GOAL can continue to operate mostly under the radar while the moonbats are fighting a ghost that's a good thing.)

 

[MA_Shooter]

“There was no pressure from angry gun owners,” Timilty added.

Guess he never talked to the people answering the phones.



Are FTF transactions still ok or do they need to go through a dealer?

 

[LoginName]

They didn't, but mentioning them gets the moonbats all riled up and riled up moonbats amuse me.

Like this...

Stop Handgun Violence shared a link.
3 hours ago
It's so disappointing to see the MA Senate fold to the demands of the NRA and remove licensing discretion from the bill, despite the fact that a majority of Massachusetts residents want it:

 

[JZ1018]

I wonder if the recognition of collectors is the result of the 50 letters I've written in the last two years detailing that collectors would be seriously impacted by one gun a month and other legislation. Probably 50 others of you did the same thing: guess that's what it takes to make any progress.

I also testified about this at the Gardner Auditorium hearing. Timilty seemed very interested in this part of my testimony.

 

[Billsail]

Guess he never talked to the people answering the phones.



Are FTF transactions still ok or do they need to go through a dealer?

Starting March 2015 you'll need to use a (yet to be set up, or even described) "web portal" that supposedly will connect you to NICS, to ensure either party is not a prohibited person, or you can use an FFL.

 

[CobaltBlueSteel]

Starting March 2015 you'll need to use a (yet to be set up, or even described) "web portal" that supposedly will connect you to NICS, to ensure either party is not a prohibited person, or you can use an FFL.

How long for the iPhone/Android app?

 

[mattyw]

How long for the iPhone/Android app?

how long is forever? that long

 

[BobR51]

How long for the iPhone/Android app?

About March 2015.

 

[jefftk]

only thing new with pepper spray is legal Aliens can purchase it (with an FID card I assume?) still treated as ammunition

these politicians hate pepper spray, or they are trying to find a way to make money off it which is my guess

not sure on the reasoning stipulation for denials/restrictions, need some clarification on that as well

Crap, its still ammo? I didn't follow the senate version as closely as the House.

I thought they declassified it from ammo and classified it as a "Defensive Spray" such that you only need an FID card if you're under 18 yrs old.

Is that not what happened?

 

[HuntMaine]

Do we still get to keep the gun show loophole

Sent from the blind

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Starting March 2015 you'll need to use a (yet to be set up, or even described) "web portal" that supposedly will connect you to NICS, to ensure either party is not a prohibited person, or you can use an FFL.

Maybe LenS or Drgrant can chime in, If someone shows me their LTC or FID and I sell them a rifle shotgun or firearm (didn't want to just say gun) and it turns out that they were a PP but still in possession of their license - what is the penalty?

My feeling is that if there were any penalty and I don't know the person personally I would rather have a NICS check on them like through the web-portal because then I wouldn't think you could get fingered for selling illegally because they passed the check - right?

 

[LoginName]

Starting March 2015 you'll need to use a (yet to be set up, or even described) "web portal" that supposedly will connect you to NICS, to ensure either party is not a prohibited person, or you can use an FFL.

I'm curious about what the FBI/NIC's will have to say about this.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

(Frankly, if GOAL can continue to operate mostly under the radar while the moonbats are fighting a ghost that's a good thing.)

People can blast me if they want, but my money spent on "gun rights" has gone to everyone other than GOAL since the complete mess a few years ago..... My check is now in the mail. I realize no piece of legislation in Massachusetts is ever going to be truly "good" for gun owners, but given the gravity of the situation I think this was handled very well

 

[Palladin]

People can blast me if they want, but my money spent on "gun rights" has gone to everyone other than GOAL since the complete mess a few years ago..... My check is now in the mail. I realize no piece of legislation in Massachusetts is ever going to be truly "good" for gun owners, but given the gravity of the situation I think this was handled very well

We appreciate that. Thank you

- - - Updated - - -

The NRA gets to claim credit for work done by its affiliate, but how does GOAL benefit from the NRA association?

it doesn't. not at all.

 

[mattyw]

We appreciate that. Thank you

- - - Updated - - -



it doesn't. not at all.

I would actually say in MA being associated with the NRA hurts goal more than helps, with gun owners and anti's

 

[Len-2A Training]

Maybe LenS or Drgrant can chime in, If someone shows me their LTC or FID and I sell them a rifle shotgun or firearm (didn't want to just say gun) and it turns out that they were a PP but still in possession of their license - what is the penalty?

My feeling is that if there were any penalty and I don't know the person personally I would rather have a NICS check on them like through the web-portal because then I wouldn't think you could get fingered for selling illegally because they passed the check - right?

TTBOMK, there is no penalty on the seller if relying on a LTC/FID in-hand AND the person has no knowledge that the buyer is a PP. IANAL, but know that once an issuing PD finds out (they get electronic notification from the courts same day I believe) that someone is a PP, they go out and confiscate permits and guns/ammo/mags/scopes/knives/swords/anything else they can think of and usually ship them to their favorite bonded warehouse. So the chance of this happening is very small indeed, but not impossible.

Doing the eFA-10 should stop even the tiniest possibility of this happening unless it happened in another state and notification hadn't been made yet to MA or the PD where the person lives (unsure this is done).

 

[whacko]

I would actually say in MA being associated with the NRA hurts goal more than helps, with gun owners and anti's

Oh I absolutely agree with you on that!

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

TTBOMK, there is no penalty on the seller if relying on a LTC/FID in-hand AND the person has no knowledge that the buyer is a PP. IANAL, but know that once an issuing PD finds out (they get electronic notification from the courts same day I believe) that someone is a PP, they go out and confiscate permits and guns/ammo/mags/scopes/knives/swords/anything else they can think of and usually ship them to their favorite bonded warehouse. So the chance of this happening is very small indeed, but not impossible.

Doing the eFA-10 should stop even the tiniest possibility of this happening unless it happened in another state and notification hadn't been made yet to MA or the PD where the person lives (unsure this is done).

Thanks, that is something while not stopping me has always been in the back of my mind

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thanks, that is something while not stopping me has always been in the back of my mind

Do a bill of sale as well and add wording that neither party is a PP to it. That signature would get you off the hook legally if anyone wanted to claim "you should have known".

 

[milktree]

I'm curious about what the FBI/NIC's will have to say about this.

I suspect, given that it's super illegal to run a NICS check if you're not in the process of actually transferring a firearm (Fed. definition) that the MA Wibbly Wobbly Web portal will simply check the state's LTC database.

In other words, no different than what we've got now (look at the buyer's licence.)

But, you know, we're safer now, since technology is involved.

I swear it's like those people think technology is some sort of magic that can do anything. They'd probably be as horrified if they saw the underbelly of The Internet as we are when we see the sausage of legislation. The more we see them do their job, the more we want less if (not like we wanted any to begin with), I suspect if they saw how this interweb stuff works (and doesn't) they'd want nothing to do with it either.

 

[Trackrat]

I would actually say in MA being associated with the NRA hurts goal more than helps, with gun owners and anti's

Not sure if i matters actually. The anti 's blame the evil NRA for anything they don't like anyway. It doesn't seem to matter if they were involved in not. Rational thought doesn't exist with them.

 

[yanici]

I sent an email thanking Sen. Barry Finegold for standing with us in his vote to keep the FID card as a shall issue. Below is his reply. Yep, he heard us loud and clear.

John - I heard my constituents loud and clear over the last few weeks and appreciate your reaching out to share your thoughts. Thanks for all of your work on this. Have a nice weekend. - Barry

Keep an eye on him running for State Treasurer and give him some consideration even though he's a Dem, but a good Dem.