Review of my new M&P vs Glock 34

[Underwhere]

First of all I'm not trying to start a flame war, just wanted to offer some thoughts on a gun that I just picked up. I didn't want to do it on the Glock or MP forums as they're opinions are obviously biased.

I shoot a Glock 34 in IDPA and recently came across a M&P Pro 9mm (The Glock 34 competitor). I was very open to having this gun be a replacement for the Glock as I see the benefit of having a gun people in MA can actually buy for a decent price. I also like having the newest design and the Glock is rather outdated.

This model does NOT have a MA compliant trigger and has a different sear making the trigger lighter than most M&P's. It also does NOT have a magazine disconnect nor does it have a fire selector lever.

M&P First impressions:
Pros:

• Very nice to be able to change grip sizes
• Comfortable gun to grip
• Fiber optic front sight is nice out of the box
• Trigger is nice out of the box (gritty for the first 50 pulls but cleaned up quickly)
• You can get a new one in MA for a decent price
• It's nicer looking than the Glock. (It should be. it's much newer)

Cons:

• Why the heck do I need to stick a tool into the ejection port to take the gun down? Really WTF? I don't want to have to disassemble the grip every time I field strip, or stick my pinky inside that. What if the slide slams forward with my finger in there? (Thanks to Jose who enlightened me that I could remove the disconnect lever. I did so promptly. Much better)
• The slide serrations are SHARP! After racking the gun a few times I notice I left a bunch of my dead skin cells on the slide. It's a nice exfoliator but I don't really need that.
• The frame does not seem to be as strong as my Glock. After removing the sear block to do some trigger work I found that some of the plastic guides are deforming. It's concerning because they guide the sear block into place and should they deform more, the sear block could loosen.
• My takedown lever had a large burr on it which would catch the recoil assembly unexpectedly. I had to file and polish it away.
• The recoil spring in the thing must be 500 pounds. Why?

When I first received this gun I did a trigger job at home almost immediately. I then compared it to my Glock trigger job (also done at home) and the M&P trigger ended up being MUCH nicer. It was largely due to the sear that comes with the M&P Pro. I feared that I'd actually want to switch to the M&P at this point and put down my Glocks.

However, the reset on the M&P leaves much to be desired. The Glock reset is very positive and easily confirmed with a "click". The M&P is not like that. Sort of like when you slap a girl's butt but you don't cup your hand the right way and it doesn't make the correct slap sound.

An interesting note: My Glock 34 recoil assembly has the exact same dimensions as the M&P Pro. I'll be testing the glock assembly in the M&P next time I'm at the range. When I first got the gun I had some issues with field stripping and re-assembly. I got the slide somewhat stuck on multiple occasions and could not figure out why. It was very frustrating. I found my takedown lever had a large burr on it. I was not happy but realize it could be remedied easily so I did so. This did not instill confidence with me though.

Some pics of the takedown lever:

My final thoughts:

• The Glock is very utilitarian and as a carry gun I think this what I will end up sticking with. It's simple. I've never had an issue field stripping it. I've never gotten the slide stuck during re-assembly. (Removing the burr and the sear disconnect should resolve this on the M&P)
• The Glock frame looks to be stronger than the M&P. The slide rails are built directly into the frame vs the plastic rails on the M&P. After firing thousand of rounds through the Glock 34, I see no noticeable wear on the frame.
• The finish on the Glock slide seems more durable than the M&P slide. I see a chip on the pin that holds my extractor in place. I've never seen a glock slide chip, only wear. I've also read about people having slide blemishes on the MP forums. On a new gun, I'm a little concerned
• Less is more. Don't give me disconnect levers, fancy things here and there. Don't make me have to disassemble the grip to field strip. If you want to consider this plastic gun an actual "duty gun", just give me the bare essentials and make sure it will never fail, never corrode, never get old. I'd rather have an ugly old gun with nothing special that I'm confident with. My pretty guns are all metal.

As a newer designed gun, many of them being MA compliant I can see why many are tempted to go with this gun over a used and expensive Glock. However, based on the issues that I've come across having owned the gun only briefly I think I'll be sticking with my Glock even it means paying a bit more and getting a used gun. It doesn't mean I don't like the gun (I do). I was just expecting a little more


OK. Let's see the flames start coming.
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UPDATE Range report 11/19/09

Range Report:
NOT GOOD

Using 115 grain plated reloads that chrono at ~1150fps (stuff that shoots out of every 9mm I've ever tried it in)

I let Jar shoot the very first shot out of my gun.
First shot goes off, right on target. That's the good thing.
The bad thing: It failed to eject the round. The slide simply was not cycling.
I videotaped the 1st round but deleted it by mistake (new phone) and so I recorded the 2nd and 3rd shot. 2nd shot malfunctioned. 3rd shot malfunctioned. Continued malfunction.

Jar went through quite a bit of ammo. I'm thinking 300 or so rounds tonight and found that every other round failed for some reason or another. There were good spells where it ran through an entire mag fine. Then there were bad spells.

I had a little bit better luck with it so I guess the difference had to be grip...but since Jar already owns an M&P and shoots it reliably I knew the grip couldn't be the issue.

When we put my Glock 34 recoil assembly in the gun it worked much much better. Still not perfect, but much better.

I'm trying to figure out what the issue was.
I painted the frame, polished the slide, polished the barrel hood and crown, and did a trigger job. None of these things should cause it to fail to eject and short cycle.

One of the very first things I noticed when I got the gun a while ago was how stiff the factory recoil spring was. It was so stiff I actually threw the G34 spring in just to see the difference. My first guess it that this spring is just too hard and I need to drop down to a 13 pound.

On a side note, the Glock 34 worked fine with the M&P Recoil Assembly.

When we were cleaning up, my brother noticed the front sight was actually drifted too far to the left, something I hadn't noticed before. I was wondering why shots were going slightly to the right. Sucks. Now I either need to make a front sight drift tool or take it to someone to drift it a suckometer over.

Here is the video. Excuse my thumb. New phone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H65y3QcsHWw

 

[Supermoto]

You don't need to remove the sear disconnect, just pull the trigger
keep an eye out for ejection issues. Some have had to go with an aftermarket extractor on the Pro

 

[Mil-Dot]

I have both as well (9L instead of Pro but close enough) and I agree with your pros and cons (out of the box). My M&P has a Greg Derr trigger job and I installed a Vanek trigger on the G34 (expensive but nice). The only con I would add to the M&P is the longevity of the striker (breakage). Never had and issue or know anyone that did with the Glock strikers. Nice post

 

[Underwhere]

You don't need to remove the sear disconnect, just pull the trigger
keep an eye out for ejection issues. Some have had to go with an aftermarket extractor on the Pro

Yea I realize that but I just removed it anyway.
I'd rather just not have it there if I don't need it.

If I'm going to field strip it like a Glock, then it's just a useless metal bar that is designed to disengage my sear.
If I actually used it the way it was intended then I can maybe see a reason to keep it in the gun. If I don't use it, it's just another part that can malfunction.

 

[eisenhow]

Nice review De.

A few nitpicks. (In the interest of full disclosure I shoot an M&P)

[*]The Glock frame looks to be stronger than the M&P. The slide rails are built directly into the frame vs the plastic rails on the M&P. After firing thousand of rounds through the Glock 34, I see no noticeable wear on the frame.

Not sure about this. The rails on the M&P are stainless and are built into the frame. See this article.

[*]Less is more. Don't give me disconnect levers, fancy things here and there. If it's a plastic duty gun, just give me the bare essentials and make sure it will never fail, never corrode, never get old. I'd rather have an ugly gun that works. My pretty guns are all metal.

As has been mentioned in several threads this weekend you don't have to use the lever, you can pull the trigger. You don't have to remove the lever.

Give me a warning before you put it in the classifieds.

 

[Underwhere]

I have both as well (9L instead of Pro but close enough) and I agree with your pros and cons (out of the box). My M&P has a Greg Derr trigger job and I installed a Vanek trigger on the G34 (expensive but nice). The only con I would add to the M&P is the longevity of the striker (breakage). Never had and issue or know anyone that did with the Glock strikers. Nice post

Another thing I noticed was on the slide of the M&P.
Instead of having a nice little hole where the striker goes through, the M&P has a hole and a strange indentation underneath it. A small crater of sorts. Not sure quite what that is from or why it's there.

 

[Underwhere]

Nice review De.

A few nitpicks. (In the interest of full disclosure I shoot an M&P)

Not sure about this. The rails on the M&P are stainless and are built into the frame. See this article.

Here's a pic of it. There is a metal frame that's in the polymer frame (chassis) but the rails are not part of it.
The front locking block and sear block are actually where the rails are. Everything else on the frame that looks like a rail is actually plastic.

I've had the gun in pieces sandblasting it for cerakote and I've been making note of what is plastic and what is metal.

What you see as the "chassis" in their picture is actually misleading. The "chassis" is 2 rails, one on each side. They are not connected (boxed). They included the front locking block and sear block in the picture and they shouldn't have.

Having the front locking block and sear block in places completes this box, however they are guided in place by plastic rails and then a pin is driven through them to connect them to the "chassis"

As has been mentioned in several threads this weekend you don't have to use the lever, you can pull the trigger. You don't have to remove the lever.

Yup. Understood. But I just don't want anything there in the first place.
Works fine on the Glock. If I'm going to do it that way on the M&P why would I leave it there?

Give me a warning before you put it in the classifieds.

Ha! I don't "dislike" the gun.
I really do like it a lot.
I like having it to mix things up and may bring it out to shoot IDPA with it just for the heck of it.
I just had hopes of giving up my Glocks but don't think I will now. (Also painting it a 2 tone cerakote gray)

 

[bostonasphalt2]

great write up! I am now convinced that glock was the right choice for me from the get-go.

 

[economist]

The Glock reset is very positive and easily confirmed with a "click". The M&P is not like that. Sort of like when you slap a girl's butt but you don't cup your hand the right way and it doesn't make the correct slap sound.

Nice write-up. The above quote produced a mental image uncommonly clear for a handgun review.

Having shot both for a while I lean toward the M&P (I have an M&P .45) for ergonomics. But the Glock construction is unbeatable for simplicity and intelligent design. Gaston Glock must not have been familiar with roll pins, and he benefited greatly from that.

Edit to add: The M&P trigger reset can be greatly improved with a little work on the sear.

 

[Underwhere]

Nice write-up. The above quote produced a mental image uncommonly clear for a handgun review.

Having shot both for a while I lean toward the M&P (I have an M&P .45) for ergonomics. But the Glock construction is unbeatable for simplicity and intelligent design. Gaston Glock must not have been familiar with roll pins, and he benefited greatly from that.

Edit to add: The M&P trigger reset can be greatly improved with a little work on the sear.

Yes. I really don't like these roll pins.

I've done some work to help with reset but there's still a drastic difference between the M&P and the Glock. Night and day.

Have you gotten your M&P to reset cleaner?

 

[Underwhere]

A pic of the gun with the frame sandblasted ready for cerakote

Oddly enough the sand blasted finish should be close to the color of the cerakote I'll be spraying

Definitely a good lucking gun (compared to a Glock)

 

[drgrant]

Nice Review!!!

The "factory" reset DOES suck donkey sack on the M+P. Apparently, however, there are ways to make it better, or so I've heard.

I don't like the stock reset at all. The first time I fired an M+P I probably short stroked it a half dozen times through the first mag. I probably could get used to it but it would take me awhile.

-Mike

 

[Lugnut]

De- A couple points. Until you do the "endurance test" you did with your Glock- nothing matters. Also- what about range reports? Groups? Recoil control? You need to compare the whole package!

Also- wrt the crappy reset- that too can be easily remedied. Like Supermoto mentioned- my M&P seemed to have a lot of ejection issues... brass shooting into my face like every other round.

Lastly... yeah the tried and true Glock will prevail. EOS.

 

[economist]

Yes. I really don't like these roll pins.

I've done some work to help with reset but there's still a drastic difference between the M&P and the Glock. Night and day.

Have you gotten your M&P to reset cleaner?

Cleaner is very hard. You can get shorter fairly easily. But the design really makes a crisp reset hard to achieve. You probably know this, but if you remove the slide and pull the trigger to the rear and push the trigger bar out to the right you can see the sear fall. Then, let off on the trigger to see the reset as the trigger bar slides back in under the sear. Maybe one could try to put more lateral pressure on the trigger bar (a little spring pushing the bar in harder against the sear, or even bend it inward a bit?). But in general I agree, the glock reset is much more crisp.

 

[Supermoto]

What's the benefit of a crisp reset? When your shooting quickly you can not feel the reset. Only when reset is inconsistent does it become an issue

 

[Lugnut]

What's the benefit of a crisp reset? When your shooting quickly you can not feel the reset. Only when reset is inconsistent does it become an issue

Not every shoots quickly all the time!

 

[economist]

What's the benefit of a crisp reset? When your shooting quickly you can not feel the reset. Only when reset is inconsistent does it become an issue

I am sure you are right about that. And the M&P design does make a short consistent reset easy to achieve. But for folks who like that crisp "click" feel on the reset I was just noting that the M&P design does not easily lend itself to that result (speaking as an amateur; a real gunsmith may have a trick for those who want it).

 

[Underwhere]

I am waiting on MA legal mags before I can take it out to the range. When I do ill report back...but with the number of rounds I have through the Glock the MP can only equally as well, not better since I haven't had issues with the Glock.

De- A couple points. Until you do the "endurance test" you did with your Glock- nothing matters. Also- what about range reports? Groups? Recoil control? You need to compare the whole package!

Also- wrt the crappy reset- that too can be easily remedied. Like Supermoto mentioned- my M&P seemed to have a lot of ejection issues... brass shooting into my face like every other round.

Lastly... yeah the tried and true Glock will prevail. EOS.

 

[jar]

I am waiting on MA legal mags before I can take it out to the range. When I do ill report back...but with the number of rounds I have through the Glock the MP can only equally as well, not better since I haven't had issues with the Glock.

I can borrow a few 10 rounders from a friend if you let me shoot it too.

 

[eisenhow]

I can borrow a few 10 rounders from a friend if you let me shoot it too.

Were you referring to me or Lauria?

My M&P that has a LaRocca trigger job has a pretty crisp reset. It's more positive than my compact with a Derr trigger job. I haven't educated myself on the M&P trigger to determine what is different between them.

 

[Mass-diver]

Great review, thanks for posting.

I like (and trust as carry pistols) both Glocks and M&Ps, although the crippled mags is a bummer for the M&Ps of course

 

[vellnueve]

Since when can you get a M&P9 Pro in MA?

 

[economist]

Since when can you get a M&P9 Pro in MA?

Ask not what Mass can do for you, but ask what you can do to screw Mass.

 

[MassMark]

Great read! I had my trigger finger on buying an M&P. Overall, I really liked everything about the gun, (except of course the trigger). I was a bit tweaked to have to spend $600.00 on a gun to have to turn around and spend more to make the trigger right. Still, the M&P, Sig220 and the Ruger P345 just felt "right" in my hands. I decided to go for the capacity of the M&P and the interchangeable grip, over the Ruger and Sig220, (which I still love). Despite getting some fairly regular pans here, I really like the P345 and borrowing Clinotus' German Sig220 has been one of my favorite .45ACP experiences. Then a fellow HK wingnut came down from heaven and offered up an HK USP 45. Now the world is right....Having owned a Glock for many years, I liked it but never loved it - the M&P seemed like a logical choice, but thanks to Heckler and Koch, my search for a 45ACP is now over...

Thanks again for a great read and a reminder of why it is I love this HK USP45 so much...

 

[Underwhere]

I can borrow a few 10 rounders from a friend if you let me shoot it too.

As soon as the paint is done (Hopefully the paint arrives tomorrow) I'm up for taking it out. You're welcome to shoot it.

Great read! I had my trigger finger on buying an M&P. Overall, I really liked everything about the gun, (except of course the trigger). I was a bit tweaked to have to spend $600.00 on a gun to have to turn around and spend more to make the trigger right. Still, the M&P, Sig220 and the Ruger P345 just felt "right" in my hands. I decided to go for the capacity of the M&P and the interchangeable grip, over the Ruger and Sig220, (which I still love). Despite getting some fairly regular pans here, I really like the P345 and borrowing Clinotus' German Sig220 has been one of my favorite .45ACP experiences. Then a fellow HK wingnut came down from heaven and offered up an HK USP 45. Now the world is right....Having owned a Glock for many years, I liked it but never loved it - the M&P seemed like a logical choice, but thanks to Heckler and Koch, my search for a 45ACP is now over...

Thanks again for a great read and a reminder of why it is I love this HK USP45 so much...

I picked up an HK USP Compact stainless 9mm from a forum member a while ago. I loved the way the gun looked but the fire control lever got in the way of my grip. I debated for a long time whether I should convert it to the LEM trigger and remove the fire control lever. I ended up selling it to buy another gun. It's a gorgeous gun. The other thing that bothered me was the mag release. I'd rather push laterally than push down on the HK's.

 

[vellnueve]

Great read! I had my trigger finger on buying an M&P. Overall, I really liked everything about the gun, (except of course the trigger). I was a bit tweaked to have to spend $600.00 on a gun to have to turn around and spend more to make the trigger right. Still, the M&P, Sig220 and the Ruger P345 just felt "right" in my hands. I decided to go for the capacity of the M&P and the interchangeable grip, over the Ruger and Sig220, (which I still love). Despite getting some fairly regular pans here, I really like the P345 and borrowing Clinotus' German Sig220 has been one of my favorite .45ACP experiences. Then a fellow HK wingnut came down from heaven and offered up an HK USP 45. Now the world is right....Having owned a Glock for many years, I liked it but never loved it - the M&P seemed like a logical choice, but thanks to Heckler and Koch, my search for a 45ACP is now over...

Thanks again for a great read and a reminder of why it is I love this HK USP45 so much...

You were searching for a .45ACP and ended up with something other than a 1911?

 

[MassMark]

As soon as the paint is done (Hopefully the paint arrives tomorrow) I'm up for taking it out. You're welcome to shoot it.



I picked up an HK USP Compact stainless 9mm from a forum member a while ago. I loved the way the gun looked but the fire control lever got in the way of my grip. I debated for a long time whether I should convert it to the LEM trigger and remove the fire control lever. I ended up selling it to buy another gun. It's a gorgeous gun. The other thing that bothered me was the mag release. I'd rather push laterally than push down on the HK's.

I debated the LEM option myself, but decided to keep it as is. You're right about the mag release - it took some getting used to, but now feels like it was designed for me...The process from empty, to mag drop, to reload seems so natural now...

I'm anxious to see what your refinish and further tweaking brings...The M&P just seems like it will be a sweet ride...

 

[Underwhere]

You were searching for a .45ACP and ended up with something other than a 1911?

My guess is that he already has one.
Who doesn't?

I debated the LEM option myself, but decided to keep it as is. You're right about the mag release - it took some getting used to, but now feels like it was designed for me...The process from empty, to mag drop, to reload seems so natural now...

I'm anxious to see what your refinish and further tweaking brings...The M&P just seems like it will be a sweet ride...

I have every intention of turning this thing into a sweet ride. We'll see if I can do it.

 

[Supermoto]

I am sure you are right about that. And the M&P design does make a short consistent reset easy to achieve. But for folks who like that crisp "click" feel on the reset I was just noting that the M&P design does not easily lend itself to that result (speaking as an amateur; a real gunsmith may have a trick for those who want it).

Mine has a fairly crisp click
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_70CcSS0c7A

You can add pressure to the trigger bar, when my sear assembly is out of the gun, the tip in more the 1/2 across the mag opening, you can also round the Firing pin safety plunger so that the bar is off the FPS sooner

 

[MassMark]

You were searching for a .45ACP and ended up with something other than a 1911?

I was shooting 1911's while you were still teething - maybe even before...

Bought my first at 21, (circa 1913 Colt) and had many flavors since then. Loved them all and am planning on a 10mm build, but none hold a candle in my eyes to the HK...