I think it is more like no one in the organization has the balls to tell his boss "it's not ready yet."
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Remington R51
- Thread starter TBalls
- Start date
I think it is more like no one in the organization has the balls to tell his boss "it's not ready yet."
Two words "Freedom Group"
I spent over $1100 on a Para pro custom and it was by far the biggest bag of ass imaginable. That was back in March, it been back to Para multiple times and I a finally awaiting a check back this time. There is nothing right about that company right now ( speaking of freedom group as a whole )
I can't imagine how shitty this little pistol is
Para was crap long before they were acquired by Freedom Group. I've got an early P14-45 and it is crap.
I cant remember the last time i purchased any firearms from freedom group. Literally everyone I respect has said how their production has gone to shit. This remington R51 is just further proof. Its too bad cuz it looks kinda nifty, but when I watched Tim from Military Arms Channel do his "first shots" and full review it was pretty clear to me that gun was a POS.
he showed the trigger on the R51 and how it can be pushed laterally by the trigger finger....i couldnt beleive what i was seeing but i have heard its actually that bad.
I am sorry but for something designed to be a carry gun, thats just flat unacceptable. Its like selling cars with faulty airbags or airplaines with shotty control surfaces. I mean come on, people carry it to trust their life to it....what junk.
that all being said, I will probably at some point buy one.
he showed the trigger on the R51 and how it can be pushed laterally by the trigger finger....i couldnt beleive what i was seeing but i have heard its actually that bad.
I am sorry but for something designed to be a carry gun, thats just flat unacceptable. Its like selling cars with faulty airbags or airplaines with shotty control surfaces. I mean come on, people carry it to trust their life to it....what junk.
that all being said, I will probably at some point buy one.
Yes, my comments are based more on my dealing with with Para and Freedom Group through the process and issues (I still can't say enough good things about Travis Tomasie though )
I knew I was taking a chance going with Para, and at this point I've been out $1100 for 5 months.... The biggest surprise is not how much a mess the pistol was, but how much a mess the company is.
As I stated in this thread before, I've handled the R51 and I wasn't comfortable being in the same room with it let alone carrying it! I have seriously seen better quality work out of hi-point.
Most firearms have some growing pains when 1st released. The Ruger SR9 was a total bag of ass when it 1st came out, some of the M&P's rusted, the Bodyguard firing pins all broke, Glocks have had extraction and cycling issues... But the incompetence that surrounds the R51 could only be brought to you by a company like freedom group
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Garys
NES Member
I handled a number of these at the NRA show in April. I was completely unimpressed with the build quality and the grittiness of the trigger and action. The only one that functioned smoothly had more grease on it than a pizza. They used some sort of white lube that reminded me of toothpaste. It was dripping off the gun, it was slathered on so heavily. My friend had the exact same reaction.
It's too bad because it's an interesting design. If it worked, I could have seen myself buying one at the price point it was at when released.
It's too bad because it's an interesting design. If it worked, I could have seen myself buying one at the price point it was at when released.
DispositionMatrix
NES Member
More like North American Aviation.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
You were surprised?The rest of us have known this for the past decade. Expecting Para to not suck is like expecting a crack addict to suddenly stop wanting crack.
-Mike
I haven't been shooting for a decade and only owned 1911's for less than a year... There are also plenty of companies that had "issues" that have been able to turn things around. The addition of Tomasie at least seemed as though they had strong intentions of becoming relevant again, and the initial spec and prerelease models of the Pro Custom I handled seemed reasonably promising.
For those curious, you stand a better chance of getting a quality product from Hi-Point than from Para USA. I'll add, that trends is increasing true throughout all of the "freedom group" brands
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Figured I'd bump the thread. It sould be just about time for Remington to release the sorted-out R51.
45collector
NES Member
Size comparison-wise, I'd opt for my Makarov before the R51. The Mak is built like a tank, time-tested, and if I run out of ammo I can beat someone over the head with it without it breaking into pieces. ![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Remington handguns suck now. Minus their 1911 but I'm not holding my breath on that either. Seriously this is such a piece of shit
And John I wish they made 9x19 Maks.
And John I wish they made 9x19 Maks.
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
Remington handguns suck now. Minus their 1911 but I'm not holding my breath on that either. Seriously this is such a piece of shit
And John I wish they made 9x19 Maks.
I'd take a tt33 over a mark.
Remington handguns suck now. Minus their 1911 but I'm not holding my breath on that either. Seriously this is such a piece of shit
And John I wish they made 9x19 Maks.
I'd rather see a more modern pistol like a Glock, XD, or Ruger SR in the 7.62×25mm Tokarev cartridge!
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
There's been a few 10mm/45 guns converted to 7.52x25. Mainly glocks and 1911's
45collector
NES Member
Yeah that would be nice. If .380 = "9x19 set to stun", I guess 9x18 = "9x19 set to stun plus a kick in the shin."
I did some research years ago on the ballistics of .380, 9x18, and 9x19 and how they compare. "Knock-down power"- wise, if people are still using that term, the Makarov round is somewhere in the middle of the other two. I used to carry a .380 PPK/s a lot in the summer months until I bought my first Makarov and started hitting the range with it. Reliability, shootability, and accuracy were all better, for me at least, with the Mak over the Walther. That and you get one more round in the mag of ammo that's just a little more potent than .380. You can however, get some seriously nasty Buffalo Bore rounds in 9x18 which some of the guys on the Makarov forums swear by, but I haven't tried them yet. Tough as hell to find those rounds anyways.
If I were pushed into a war zone right now and had to choose between a TT33 and a Makarov, I'd take 7.62x25 no question. For civilian use however, I wouldn't want to be responsible for where those rounds go after they zip through whoever they hit. Those little f*ckers will penetrate level (whatever it is) body armor.
ETA: Here's a fun read. The 7.62x25 round achieved more penetration than a hot load of .357 Magnum...
http://www.xcrforum.com/forum/7-general-discussion/17968-interesting-tests-kevlar-helmets.html
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DispositionMatrix
NES Member
KBCraig
NES Member
Thanks for that. I was very interested when it was announced, and very disappointed when it tanked. It's one of the few that could persuade me to carry a 9mm.
Because of Remington's recent QC issues, I'll wait until it's fully tested before I buy.
Garys
NES Member
"Tolerance stacking problem?" Frankly it sounds like poor design or quality control in production. Tolerance stacking, at least from the description, seems like something that should happen in a small number of guns. Just as a very small number of guns should be right on spec and function perfectly.
Ask Lin McAdam or Dutch Henry Brown.
Ask Lin McAdam or Dutch Henry Brown.
dcmdon
NES Member
Garys
Its not a design problem. The pre-production prototypes shown at SHOT 2014 ran well. They clearly dropped the ball when it came time to set things up to mass produce it.
Its not a design problem. The pre-production prototypes shown at SHOT 2014 ran well. They clearly dropped the ball when it came time to set things up to mass produce it.
Garys
NES Member
Maybe, maybe not. For Remington to recover, this gun is going to have to run flawlessly. As I recall, it was at a very good price point and there is significant demand for single stack 9mm guns. Especially ones not made of polymer.
Garys
NES Member
Then it's a matter of poor QC in production. Either way, it was a dog when it was released. I handled several last year at the NRA show. Remington had them displayed in two separate areas. I probably handled 4 or 5. None of them would even cycle by hand. Some of them had a thick coating of white grease on the internals to try to get them to where people handling them could cycle them. I also couldn't get one to field strip as the various articles I read it should. The guy I was with, who shoots a lot more than I do, had the same reaction.
I'll be checking out the new R51 this year. I don't know if I'll be buying one, but if it's any good I might suggest that others look into it. That's if it's any good.
I still think its done. You can get away with having a bad run here or there but the entire launch of the R51 was been a raging dumpster fire, with burning turds in said dumpster. If they keep it around it'll take years to be trusted. Right now if i did a survey i bet most handgun enthusiasts woukd take a Keltec P11 or a SCCY CPX 1 over this POS. (and i think those guns are shit, but id trust either one over the R51 at this point.)
