So I’ve been thinking for awhile about trying the long game for shooting. Now that ammo is available somewhat trying to think of what ammo/rifle combo to buy. I’m in no rush but wouldn’t mind stocking up on some ammo while looking for a new rifle. Do I stick with 223/5.56 and just get an 18 or 20 inch upper? Or do I pick up a bolt action in 308 as a platform to learn from? Or go with an AR-10 because I already know how to run that. I don’t hunt but maybe I might want or need to someday. I try to keep my calibers/gun simple: 9mm (Glocks), 223/5.56 (AR platorms), and 12ga (shotguns). What do you guys think?
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Recommendations for first rifle for long distance?
- Thread starter Hogie1
- Start date
BuggsBunny
NES Member
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Ruger Precision Rifle in .308.
slipknot
NES Member
If you want to shoot long distance, you are probably going to want to load your ammo for your specific chamber. What distance do you consider long?
If it is 300 to over 1000 yards then get a bolt gun. Maybe something like a Tikka CTR or Varmint model. Bergara makes a decent rifle too.
If you can afford closer to custom, it is worth it to build your own on maybe a decent action like a Bighorn and buy a prefit barrel, trigger and stock of your choice. A muzzle break is nice to help tame recoil.
There is a world of choices.
If it is 300 to over 1000 yards then get a bolt gun. Maybe something like a Tikka CTR or Varmint model. Bergara makes a decent rifle too.
If you can afford closer to custom, it is worth it to build your own on maybe a decent action like a Bighorn and buy a prefit barrel, trigger and stock of your choice. A muzzle break is nice to help tame recoil.
There is a world of choices.
Figure out how far you want to stretch out.
Compare ballistic data at that distance and beyond.
Base your caliber off of that.
Find a rifle chambered in that caliber.
Compare ballistic data at that distance and beyond.
Base your caliber off of that.
Find a rifle chambered in that caliber.
Yeah, I think 300-1000 is probably a good place to start. I’ve only shot out to about 250 with my AR-15. I would probably stay away from something custom, I don’t know enough to know what I like or dislike. I’ll check out your suggestions. Thx!
300yds vs 1000 is a very different thing.
Do some research. All popular competition calibers like 6 dasher, 6 creedmoor, etc will require to reload and most - fire form brass.
Read articles here:
precisionrifleblog.com
.308 is fine, 6.5creedmoor is fine also if you want to shoot factory loads - but all got expensive now.
Gas rifles are generally less accurate or just more difficult to shoot accurate than bolt ones.
Now, for 300yds you can have all the fun with 69gr or 77gr SMK bullets in .223 with your AR considering your barrel is decent enough. My 20” LaRue shoots very well at 300 with my own loads.
6.5 creed 24” bolt rifle like tikka, bergara or a CZ is a simplest way in. Bergara lrp2 or hmr are probably the best options.
www.bergara.online
Do some research. All popular competition calibers like 6 dasher, 6 creedmoor, etc will require to reload and most - fire form brass.
Read articles here:
6 & 6.5 Creedmoor Load Data – What The Pros Use
This past year I asked the 173 of the top-ranked precision rifle shooters in the country about the ...
precisionrifleblog.com
.308 is fine, 6.5creedmoor is fine also if you want to shoot factory loads - but all got expensive now.
Gas rifles are generally less accurate or just more difficult to shoot accurate than bolt ones.
Now, for 300yds you can have all the fun with 69gr or 77gr SMK bullets in .223 with your AR considering your barrel is decent enough. My 20” LaRue shoots very well at 300 with my own loads.
6.5 creed 24” bolt rifle like tikka, bergara or a CZ is a simplest way in. Bergara lrp2 or hmr are probably the best options.
B-14 HMR - Bergara USA
Do you crave handmade craftsmanship? Do you want a rifle built specifically for you, built for your needs, and with a level of quality that is evident the moment it touches your hands? Are you the type who hones your skills until your confidence is unwavering and your actions are second nature...
www.bergara.online
What is long range to you and how much access do you have to long range?
If you plan to play in a specific game understand the equipment rules then go from there.
If your 600 yards and in and want to keep caliper choices minimal 223 308 are fine for all around play imho
If your like me and just want to do the best I can with what I have maybe modify current platforms to better suite your needs
You need to consider realistically what long distance will be for you. 300 is really not long distance- certainly some skill involved, but barely any more so than for 200. 600 is getting 'real' in terms of skill set but there are many choices in equipment and calibers that can work at that distance. If 600 is your realistic limit based on available range etc., .223 or .308 is fine and no need for anything else.
The gap between 600 yard capability and 1000 yard capability is HUGE, in my humble opinion. For a beginner I'd recommend 6.5 (first choice for beginner) or 6mm Creedmoor so you can work with factory ammo before you take the dive into reloading. Don't forget that even on a moderately priced scope you will likely spend more on the 'glass' than the rifle. You absolutely can't shoot long distance with a crap cheap scope.
Here's a slightly different take: Consider 22LR PRS shooting? Shooting 22LR at 200 yards will have a similar level of challenge as centerfire at much greater distances; plus the equipment and ammo will be WAY cheaper. You will get tons more trigger time, so if you decide to take a deeper dive your skill set will already be honed.
The gap between 600 yard capability and 1000 yard capability is HUGE, in my humble opinion. For a beginner I'd recommend 6.5 (first choice for beginner) or 6mm Creedmoor so you can work with factory ammo before you take the dive into reloading. Don't forget that even on a moderately priced scope you will likely spend more on the 'glass' than the rifle. You absolutely can't shoot long distance with a crap cheap scope.
Here's a slightly different take: Consider 22LR PRS shooting? Shooting 22LR at 200 yards will have a similar level of challenge as centerfire at much greater distances; plus the equipment and ammo will be WAY cheaper. You will get tons more trigger time, so if you decide to take a deeper dive your skill set will already be honed.
To add to that - pretty much any 1000yds shooting will require customized loads developed for your rifle and barrel specifically. And, there are no 1000yds ranges in metro MA nearby vicinity at all.
600yds ranges are here but quite a hassle to join, as you need a sponsor, etc. easier for retirees probably, but if you work and have limited time - it is a hassle.
Gas guns can indeed be built for great accuracy, but you will need a top shelf barrel + bolt combo and a high end trigger. Here's the 6.5 Creedmoor AR that I built in 2016 via some NES group buy parts. Had some bugs to work out initially but in the end achieved accuracy that was usually better than half-MOA and rarely worse than ~2/3 MOA.
Group at upper left was via factory Winchester Match 140's- 5 shots, 100 yard bug-hole. If I had my head screwed on straight and had the right dope this would hit the 1000 yard plate all day. 600 yard plate was little challenge.
Group at upper left was via factory Winchester Match 140's- 5 shots, 100 yard bug-hole. If I had my head screwed on straight and had the right dope this would hit the 1000 yard plate all day. 600 yard plate was little challenge.
I fell down this same rabbit hole last spring. I ultimately decided, for the time being, to stick with 556 and picked up a nice Larue upper https://www.larue.com/products/larue-ultimate-ar-15-upper/#panel1 . Been shooting IMI Razorcore 77 gr with a Vortex Viper PST out to 300 yds with the hopes of getting enough trigger time to eventually join a 1000 range. Then probably go to 6.5 creedmore. I will keep an eye on this thread and learn more myself
Others have covered it pretty well so I'll only add this: be honest with yourself about "how far out is LIKE to shoot" vs. "How far out I WILL shoot 98-100% of the time".
Talk to us about the 223 AR you currently own. Barrel? Floated? You can make that into an absolute hammer out to 600 very easily and inexpensively. It may not be the ultimate rig for 1000yds, but it is done frequently. Plus; how often, and more importantly, where, are you going to shoot 1000 yards in New England?
Talk to us about the 223 AR you currently own. Barrel? Floated? You can make that into an absolute hammer out to 600 very easily and inexpensively. It may not be the ultimate rig for 1000yds, but it is done frequently. Plus; how often, and more importantly, where, are you going to shoot 1000 yards in New England?
This seems like a reasonable entry point and budget minded response. @Hogie1 could also look into the similar savage 10BA, but the butt stock on the Ruger is better, IMHO. I own a savage and hate the stock.
As others have mentioned, if you really want to go at it, there are other calibers/cartridges out there with better ballistics, however some also come with drawbacks; such as barrel life, ammo price & availability, and your willingness or ability to reload (sourcing components is not easy either right now).
As far as glass goes you can use mid tier optics with great success. @Mountain mentioned this point, but I believe that the old adage of paying more for the glass than the rifle is not true for the average person. Maybe so, if you want to complete. Respectable FFP glass can be had sub $500, last I checked.
Around here in yankee land? 50 yards
To make your AR shine - this one is still on a good sale - get it, you will like it - it really makes a major difference, if you run anything stock or #4.5+ for a trigger.
TriggerTech Special Edition Independence Day AR15 Adaptable Curved Blue Two Stage Trigger X34-TBB-25-NNC
TriggerTech Special Edition Independence AR15 Adaptable Curved Blue Two Stage Trigger X34-TBB-25-NNC For Sale
Wickedcoolname
NES Member
Picking out the rifle is the fun part. Spend 4 or 5 times the cost of the rifle on a scope and a spotting scope is the not so fun part.
But shooting a rifle at long distances without a spotting scope is pretty much just making noise and the occasional hole in something.
But shooting a rifle at long distances without a spotting scope is pretty much just making noise and the occasional hole in something.
Boghog1
NES Member
This right here, I enjoy shooting my .22lr at 200 yards, there are infinitely more ranges in New England where you can shoot 200yards vs ranges with 300+ available. plus I can afford to shoot more frequently. it may not be as sexy as a .308 or 6.5 Creedmoor but it has a lot of benefits, if you want more powerful then stick with .223 and stretch it to 600
Aside from the Sig academy, Field of Dreams in Chatham, NH? Though it is a private range. My buddy shoots PRS there but I'd imagine he had to meet some people before getting allowed into that range.
He also shoots Granby but I don't think that 1,000 yard range is reopened? And travels to NY (sheepdog I think he said?) for 1000+ yard shooting.
So yeah in New England, it's only a couple places.
If you're going to shoot calibers aside from 5.56/.223 or 308, it seems like you'd be better served reloading. I can't imagine paying for (and finding) factory match grade 6.5CM, 6mm CM, etc. But maybe you have money to burn lol.
Ok, admittedly there are limited number of options for quality scopes in that price point.
I will admit to being an Athlon Optics fan just for that reason. Tibosaurusrex & Ultimate Reloader have done videos on their impressive quality.
Tibosaurusrex has an amazing collection of videos, if you're not familiar with him, on long distance shooting.
View: https://youtu.be/clC7AZmEwEA
If you want to stay with .223 or .308 there are guys who compete in tactical class with them. A few will run gas guns, but most run bolt rifles.
personally after shooting my AR with 18” barrel at 600 yards, I elected to go with a bolt gun before going farther. I went with .308 in varmint barrel Remington 700. it got the job done Out to 1000 yards. But before I went to my first PRS match, I shifted over to 6.5 Creedmore
In my opinion it is easier to get hits reaching out to 1000 yards with a bolt gun than with a gas gun
In my experience out pass 600 yards it was easier to get hits with the 6.5 CM then the 308. My heavy bolt rifle in .223 that I usually use only for short range practice is about the same as my .308 at longer ranges.
If you are thinking of seriously competing in PRS I would go to one of the newer 6mm calibers ( not 6 creedmore).
I had posts a few years ago on a) preparing and shooting for out to 1000 yards for the first time and b) preparing and shooting my first PRS match. Search posts by northny to find them. second one is under rifle competition
