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Ericman

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I know using deadly force in defense of ones property is a sticky issue in MA, and you essentially have to be bleeding to death in order to justify doing anything to save your self.

But, as long as its on my property, I can use a gun to deter bad guys from doing anything with little legal problems right? As in if somone is trying to break into your house or the like you could get your gun and point it at them and tell them to scram, or get down on the ground and wait for the cops without much problem?

I know you cant discharge a firearm within 500 feet of a road or building but would giving a warning shot be legal?
 
that still falls under the sticky situation I think... basically in MA, "Guns=Bad"

I'm sure some of the smart/more seasoned members can give you a clear answer.
 
Do some Advanced Search here! This exact scenario was discussed to death within the past 2-3 months.

If you pull a gun, YOU MUST be in fear of your life and have FULL JUSTIFICATION to use it to STOP the threat! Any other use and you go to jail. This has nothing to do with 500' from a building. Police use that as a throw-away charge to elicit a plea bargain, but if you are justified in self-defense, the 500' rule is moot.
 
But, as long as its on my property, I can use a gun to deter bad guys from doing anything with little legal problems right? As in if somone is trying to break into your house or the like you could get your gun and point it at them and tell them to scram, or get down on the ground and wait for the cops without much problem?

I know you cant discharge a firearm within 500 feet of a road or building but would giving a warning shot be legal?
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NO! You really, really need to have a talk with a competent attorney, because if you do what you suggest above, you may find yourself in jail for a long, long time. Read Ayoob's book -- In the Gravest Extreme. Attend Lethal Force Institute LFI-1.

There are very, very few situations in which you would be legally justified in using a gun in MA.

First, unless you are inside your house, you must retreat from an attack if it is safe to do so. Inside your house, you do not have to retreat. NOTE: if you are outside your home, EVEN ON YOUR PROPERTY, you must retreat if it is safe to do so.

Second, even inside your house, you can only use deadly force if you, or another innocent, is in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury. Just because someone is breaking into your house does not necessarily imply that you are in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury.

Third, warning shots are almost always a very, very bad idea. You are responsible for the final resting place of every shot you take. If you fire a warning shot, that bullet is going to land somewhere. If it lands inside your neighbor's house, injuring someone, you are in deep, deep kimchee. In addition, by firing a warning shot you are essentially making it clear that you thought deadly force was not necessary, and yet you shot anyways.
 
So I can't even pull a gun and threaten said intruder on my own property without risk of jail? Christ, I know MA was bad, the worst in fact, but not that bad!

I will just hand him my gun when it happens so he can shoot me and save me a lifetime of jail.
 
Ericman said:
So I can't even pull a gun and threaten said intruder on my own property without risk of jail? Christ, I know MA was bad, the worst in fact, but not that bad!

I will just hand him my gun when it happens so he can shoot me and save me a lifetime of jail.
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How about you actually attend a class on the use of firearms, such as LFI, and get a clue?

You are egregiously misinformed. That, plus your attitude, makes you a headline waiting to happen.
 
Ericman said:
<SNIP>I know you cant discharge a firearm within 500 feet of a road or building but would giving a warning shot be legal?
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Always a bad idea. I believe that old axiom - "If its bad enough to use, then use it in the way it was intended"... or something like that. [wink]

RJ
 
If you want to become better informed about the basics of the lawful use of force in Massachusetts, I recommend a course I teach with Jon Green of the GOAL Foundation.

The course is called The Art of Concealed Carry. Detailed information about the course is available at www.goal.org. Once on the web site, click on the Training button.

Darius Arbabi
www.massgunlaw.com
 
So I can't even pull a gun and threaten said intruder on my own property without risk of jail? Christ, I know MA was bad, the worst in fact, but not that bad!
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If you think MA is unique in this respect, you are, as Scrivener said previously, egregiously misinformed.

MA laws regarding deadly force are not that different from the law in many, many other states.

You can only draw your gun and threaten someone if you are justified in drawing your gun and shooting them. You can only do so if you, or another innocent, is in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury.
 
Scrivener said:
How about you actually attend a class on the use of firearms, such as LFI, and get a clue?

You are egregiously misinformed. That, plus your attitude, makes you a headline waiting to happen.
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Scrivener's bedside manner is wrapped around a priceless bit of advice. If you are going to carry a firearm for self-defense you need to know both how to use it and when you are legal in using it. He knows what he is talking about and you would do well to take his advice now when it's free rather than later when you may have to pay him big bucks to get you out of trouble.
 
FPrice said:
Scrivener's bedside manner is wrapped around a priceless bit of advice. If you are going to carry a firearm for self-defense you need to know both how to use it and when you are legal in using it. He knows what he is talking about and you would do well to take his advice now when it's free rather than later when you may have to pay him big bucks to get you out of trouble.
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Well said, Frosty!
 
With all of this said, you really shouldn't take the advice of anonymous people on a web site. If you wind up in court because you based your actions on what I posted, the judge isn't going to be impressed when you say "But M1911 said it was ok..." I'm not going to bail you out or serve your time.

If you are misinformed about traffic laws and accidentally break one, chances are you'll just get a ticket. That will cost you a few hundred bucks or so.

If you are misinformed about the laws regarding deadly force and use deadly force when you are not legally allowed to do so, you may find yourself in jail FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

So I strongly urge you to educate yourself about when you can legally use deadly force. One of the best ways to do is to take LFI-I from Ayoob.
 
Cross-X said:
If you want to become better informed about the basics of the lawful use of force in Massachusetts, I recommend a course I teach with Jon Green of the GOAL Foundation.

The course is called The Art of Concealed Carry. Detailed information about the course is available at www.goal.org. Once on the web site, click on the Training button.

Darius Arbabi
www.massgunlaw.com
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I second the course. Everyone considering carrying should take it. I sure am glad I did.
 
Second, even inside your house, you can only use deadly force if you, or another innocent, is in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury. Just because someone is breaking into your house does not necessarily imply that you are in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury.
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I believe a few years ago this was changed. I believe you can now make the assumption that if someone broke in without your permission, that he is intending bodily harm and you can react accordingly.

IANAL, see suggestions above.
 
I believe a few years ago this was changed. I believe you can now make the assumption that if someone broke in without your permission, that he is intending bodily harm and you can react accordingly.
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NO! That is not correct in MA. There are a few states where that is true (e.g., Colorado), but not in MA.

Google the following: "make my day" law
 
"Legal" also has a different meaning depending on where you live, what kind of political goals the prosecutor has, and the view of your situation.

For example, there was a pharmacy robbery not too long ago in the Boston area that was stopped when the pharmacist pulled out a gun and fired a 'warning shot'. The phamacist was not charged or even arrested. Yet, his actions were illegal.

I suspect that in more rural communities you would find the situation far more relaxed than in a more urban setting.

That said, understand that the fall out of a prosecution is very expensive. As Mas Ayoob, the man who runs the LFI program, says; You need to be ready to risk it all to survive. Your home, your family, your friends, your life as you know it are all likely to be lost as you fight against a society that is truly out to get you.

Keep the gun close. But keep it descrete. I like to use a quote from the Patrick Sawze movie 'Roadhouse' that says: "Be nice. Be nice until it's time to not be nice." The key is to have the training to be able to stand in court and explain in very detailed terms exactly why the point in which you presented the gun and fired was the exact time to 'not be nice'.

And this isn't Massacusetts. The same standards of Deadly Force generally apply anywhere. It's just that you are more likely to have a DA drag your ass to court here than in some other areas of the country for surviving.

I can not stress enough that training is very very important. When you are in court, it will be not only what you know, but you will be asked to prove exactly when you knew it. And one of the fringe benefits of the LFI course is that if you ever did find yourself in that position, Mas Ayoob would come to be your expert witness to explain the details of the training you received.

Get Training.
 
rscalzo said:
Our club, Major Waldron's Sportsmen's Association (www.majorwaldron.com) is holding a Personal Protection Course on Sept. 9th and 15th. Details can be obtained on the website of contacting Bob Makowski at [email protected]. Cost is reasonable and worth it if you intend on depending on a firearm for defense.
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I can find no mention of a class on those dates on the web site.
 
Cross-X said:
If you want to become better informed about the basics of the lawful use of force in Massachusetts, I recommend a course I teach with Jon Green of the GOAL Foundation.

The course is called The Art of Concealed Carry. Detailed information about the course is available at www.goal.org. Once on the web site, click on the Training button.

Darius Arbabi
www.massgunlaw.com
Click to expand...

I don't see a listing dates for the course on the GOAL web site.
 
M1911 said:
NO! That is not correct in MA. There are a few states where that is true (e.g., Colorado), but not in MA.

Google the following: "make my day" law
Click to expand...

WRONG. [slap] The issue was IN THE HOME; not elsewhere:

Just because someone is breaking into your house does not necessarily imply that you are in immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury.
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Here is Mass. law on unlawful untruders IN the home:

G.L.c. 278, § 8A. Killing or injuring a person unlawfully in a dwelling; defense.

Section 8A. In the prosecution of a person who is an occupant of a dwelling charged with killing or injuring one who was unlawfully in said dwelling, it shall be a defense that the occupant was in his dwelling at the time of the offense and that he acted in the reasonable belief that the person unlawfully in said dwelling was about to inflict great bodily injury or death upon said occupant or upon another person lawfully in said dwelling, and that said occupant used reasonable means to defend himself or such other person lawfully in said dwelling. There shall be no duty on said occupant to retreat from such person unlawfully in said dwelling.
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While not the "shoot first" law the Brady Bunch decries, it IS a "castle law." The presumption is that any unlawful intruder in an occupied home IS there to do serious harm to the occupants. You might also check out the corollary prohibition of civil suits, G.L.c. 231, § 85U.

As each was enacted when Ed King was governor, they are hardly news.
 
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