Question about my first AR

42!

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It almost sounds like you had 223 and 556 mixed up in the same pile or something? lol

Then again I have seen some of that phenomenon, particularly with guns that had brakes or no flash suppression, etc.
Not unless they mixed it at the factory and got the headstamps wrong.
And I'm shooting the muzzle device SA shipped it with.
 

jpm

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The barrel temp may be an issue, when I first noticed it it did seem to be more frequent after the first mag or two. Last weekend it seemed more consistent so I was thinking gas block issue, but like I said I don't have a lot of hands on with monkeying around with an AR. In the past it's been someone else's rifle so I was basically shooting it and handing it back. Last weekend was also all indoor so no major cold temps.

So if it was more consistent while inside, that would kind of point to a temp sensitive powder in those rounds. It would tend to be more subdued in the cold till the powder gets heated up by the chamber. The temp swing would be reduced inside.

Trade someone for 100rds of another brand and see if the same thing happens.
 

42!

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OK, despite the 3k rounds of this stuff I already have I'll try to find a couple hundred of something else and try that. My first instinct was ammo, I need to rule that out.
 

drgrant

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Not unless they mixed it at the factory and got the headstamps wrong.
And I'm shooting the muzzle device SA shipped it with.

Yeah, just looked at it, I just realize they all come with brakes.

If it shoots well enough, I wouldn't worry about it. Just try some different ammo, likely same thing won't happen... although win 556 is usually pretty good.

If something bad was going to happen the gun wouldn't still be working. That much I do know. [laugh]
 

jpm

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It’s the muzzle brake. It’s due to trapped gasses and unburnt powder.

unburned powder on the muzzle brake isn't going to explode if ignited by a subsequent shot, so it wouldn't account for the louder blast. It would just spark a bit, not that there would be enough there to even notice anyway. And why would it be different when he's inside vs outside. I can't figure out where the gasses are supposedly trapped either, they have to go somewhere and it should be consistent if that's cause.
 

Bodhisattva

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Use a different batch of the same ammo. Depending on the ammo, it may have an anti flash component in the powder especially if it’s surplus or rejected military ammo such as xm193 or xm855.
 

drgrant

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unburned powder on the muzzle brake isn't going to explode if ignited by a subsequent shot, so it wouldn't account for the louder blast. It would just spark a bit, not that there would be enough there to even notice anyway. And why would it be different when he's inside vs outside. I can't figure out where the gasses are supposedly trapped either, they have to go somewhere and it should be consistent if that's cause.

The other day I got a mini fireball out of my aero mid builds with a VG6 FH on it. I basically ran a few different kinds of 223, it was just that ONE shot out of maybe 200 rounds of
ammo. It never happened again. No sound increase but the flash/sparks was noticeable.
 

Bodhisattva

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unburned powder on the muzzle brake isn't going to explode if ignited by a subsequent shot, so it wouldn't account for the louder blast. It would just spark a bit, not that there would be enough there to even notice anyway. And why would it be different when he's inside vs outside. I can't figure out where the gasses are supposedly trapped either, they have to go somewhere and it should be consistent if that's cause.
It’s not ignited by the subsequent shot, it’s burnt by that shot.

The unburnt powder travels down the barrel and basically gets trapped by the comp and the hot gas that follows the projectile reignites the trapped powder.
 

Bodhisattva

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The other day I got a mini fireball out of my aero mid builds with a VG6 FH on it. I basically ran a few different kinds of 223, it was just that ONE shot out of maybe 200 rounds of
ammo. It never happened again. No sound increase but the flash/sparks was noticeable.

Both the Gamma and Epsilon are considered a brake/comp hybrid. They just also happen to do a good job at suppressing flash as well. That’s why you’ll get an intermittent flash
 

92G

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The barrel temp may be an issue, when I first noticed it it did seem to be more frequent after the first mag or two. Last weekend it seemed more consistent so I was thinking gas block issue, but like I said I don't have a lot of hands on with monkeying around with an AR. In the past it's been someone else's rifle so I was basically shooting it and handing it back. Last weekend was also all indoor so no major cold temps.

boom and flash are unburnt powder reaching atmosphere. Increase barrel temp will provide more Gibbs free energy and thus speed up burn rate, not slow it down. I do not see any way a hot barrel would result in more muzzle blast. If anything other way around. Regardless barrel temp is a relatively small component to burn rate it’s not going to make a huge difference unless the powder is super temperature sensitive.

either way this rifle definitely sounds defective. It should be massified with a pinned stock and brake then sold for a low price to a subject of the commonwealth.
 
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It’s probably the brake. Saint comes with a brake similar to VG6 gamma. Very loud with lots of concussion. I run the gamma and epsilon have noticed inconsistent flash pattern as well as inconsistent reports. In my opinion it’s a fairly normal trait with these style brakes.
 

jpm

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boom and flash are unburnt powder reaching atmosphere. Increase barrel temp will provide more Gibbs free energy and thus speed up burn rate, not slow it down. I do not see any way a hot barrel would result in more muzzle blast. If anything other way around. Regardless barrel temp is a relatively small component to burn rate it’s not going to make a huge difference unless the powder is super temperature sensitive.

either way this rifle definitely sounds defective. It should be massified with a pinned stock and brake then sold for a low price to a subject of the commonwealth.

Not hot barrel, hot chamber with temp sensitive powder in the ammo. Say after a mag the chamber is hot enough to heat up the round to 150 degrees or so before its fired. If the rounds are sitting out in 30-40 degrees before firing, that's a significant temp increase and if the powder is temp sensitive, its going to act differently from the first mag to the second.
 

Da_lucche

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So despite too many decade shooting I only got my first AR recently. Nothing too fancy, just something I bought, not built, an SA Saint Victor. But it's doing something weird that I'm guessing someone with more knowledge of the AR-15 platform has seen before. At first I thought it might be the ammo, the bulk Winchester 55gr 5.56, but over the weekend I had someone run 30 rounds through their AR and it seemed not to have any issues.
What's happening is that some of the time when it's fired the sound is unusually loud and there is a lot more flash. At first it was only every 5 to 10 rounds, but last time out it seemed like it got about half way through the 30 round mag and then it was every round.
I'm going to get a different ammo and see what happens, but I got a fair amount of this bulk ammo amnd, well, we all know what the ammo situation is right now.

What I'm hoping for is a "ya I've seen this lots of times and you just need to ..." kind of answer, but any ideas on what I should look for would help. Thanks

It is common to have variation of under/over power, flash and sound and also "dirtiness" between brands. Example: Fiocchi 223 barely has any flash compared to Federal 556. I am using mostly Sure 3 prong flash hiders but it is always good to know which loadings have less than others especially if you are planning on doing no light training without a suppressor.
 
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Serious question not busting your balls, but what type of earpro are you using? I’ve seen lots of guys with the bigger ear muff styles trying to get a cheek weld and it ends up pushing the earpro up off their ear a little. Could that be the case?

That would cover the sound issue but not the increased flash he mentioned.

I'll throw another nod toward it just being irregularity in the ammo's charge. Even if he had a blocked gas-tube, presumably a non issue on a new rifle, it would only cause a minimal amount of extra gas to exit the barrel and shouldn't even be perceivable. But the rifle wouldn't run for shit. Ammo is the only thing can think of that would cause both problems with no functional problems.
 

drgrant

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A side note.... I -have- run into this phenomenon with handgun ammunition, before. I suspect that some of it may even be based on things like maybe the powder position in the case or something like that and how it lit off. I wish I had a chrono at the time...

Awhile ago I was shooting Privi .357 Sig FMJ ammo. As some of you probably already know, that shit is loud to begin with. My experience with the ammo was something like..

pow pow pow. pow pow.... BOOM!!!!!!! (with accompanying huge fireball) the first time it happened I almost dropped the f***ing gun. [rofl] After I realized the gun didnt blow up I was laughing pretty hard for a couple minutes.... It maybe happened like, once per magazine, say once every 10, 15 rounds... but it was there... and definitely noticeable.
 

cams

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That would cover the sound issue but not the increased flash he mentioned.

I'll throw another nod toward it just being irregularity in the ammo's charge. Even if he had a blocked gas-tube, presumably a non issue on a new rifle, it would only cause a minimal amount of extra gas to exit the barrel and shouldn't even be perceivable. But the rifle wouldn't run for shit. Ammo is the only thing can think of that would cause both problems with no functional problems.
Agreed it doesn’t sound like that’s the case as OP stated, but my thought was the sound pressure (unexpectedly with no or failing earpro) may lead one to think they’re seeing a bigger flash in their head just from the shock of the sound.
 

Tinkermatic

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A side note.... I -have- run into this phenomenon with handgun ammunition, before. I suspect that some of it may even be based on things like maybe the powder position in the case or something like that and how it lit off. I wish I had a chrono at the time...

Awhile ago I was shooting Privi .357 Sig FMJ ammo. As some of you probably already know, that shit is loud to begin with. My experience with the ammo was something like..

pow pow pow. pow pow.... BOOM!!!!!!! (with accompanying huge fireball) the first time it happened I almost dropped the f***ing gun. [rofl] After I realized the gun didnt blow up I was laughing pretty hard for a couple minutes.... It maybe happened like, once per magazine, say once every 10, 15 rounds... but it was there... and definitely noticeable.

It’s funny how in tune one is with their firearm/ammo and how deviations from the norm can be shocking.
This happened to me recently, though not with the same ammo like you described.
I was slinging some ZQI 7.62 NATO downrange with a new PTR. Pop, pop, pop, lots of fun!
Grabbed another mag of what turned out to be Wolf Performance .308 and, BOOM! Now, I know .308 is higher pressure, blah blah blah, but this was eye-widening.
I went and dug the brass out of the snow to confirm that it was indeed .308 or 7.62 and not some hyper-fireball, super loud, alien 7.63 or .309. I felt like the librarian in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, just looking at this empty case like a moron. Finished the mag and chalked it up to my relative newness with battle rifle calibers.
I can tell 5.56 from .223, this was on another level.
5FA4A7C1-EA96-4FF9-B57C-D6C11BEB5F60.gif
 

Dadstoys

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Winchester tends to be somewhat erratic.
I've opened up a box and found two rounds with the necks crushed down like the seating die was off center.
Glad i was paying attention.
I have also noticed similar to what you are describing as to the report .
One or twice I have even stopped to check for a squib thinking "That didn't sound right ".
It may be more of a QC issue with ammo than your rifle .
 

mac1911

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A couple good comments but some of you aren't reading, or maybe I'm not being clear.
The ammo is legit, sealed box from Shooters, headstamp matches. All from the same box. And Ammo was my first thought until the problem didn't happen in another AR.
What I describe happening is see and noted by all at the range, so this isn't my ears, or eyes, or some weird expectation of what an AR sounds like. And it's the first one I've owned, not the first I've shot. Seriously guys, I've been shooting since I was 13, thats forty years. There has been more than one AR in my hands. Although I do like the full auto SCAR more.
The rifle is completely stock and was new when I got it, also from Shooters.
Specs, muzzle device, here you go SAINT® Victor 5.56 AR-15 Rifle - Springfield Armory

I can't emphasize the difference between a "good" round and a "questionable" one. Everyone notices the change in volume and it's spitting fire. It's not subtle.

Otherwise it runs flawlessly, no ftf or fte and goes bang every time, a lot more carbon build up at the muzzle, but otherwise ok. And while I'm shooting a short range, the accuracy does not seem to be affected.

If it is just the ammo, it's the crappiest QC I've ever seen.
loose floor sweepings can be like that
 
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