Quandary... recommendations welcome.

[Ah2BFlyn]

I currently own a S&W 952-2 and a G17. The 952 I use for metal and bowling pin shoots. I usually shoot 1.5" to 2" groups consistently with the 952. I purchased the G17 because the 952 doesn't qualify for IDPA... too long and weighs too much.

With the G17 on the other hand, I'm lucky if I get hits on an 8.5" x 11" sheet of paper. It's not an 'out-of-the-box' great shooter like the 952. Maybe the G17 was a bad choice, or my shooting technique needs improvement. I welcome your recommendations on other guns to consider or training that I should take.

BTW, I've considered selling the G17 and getting a Para Ordnance Tac Five for IDPA competition.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[firtree]

Have you had another shooter try the Glock? Maybe the barrel
is shot or the sights are loose or some other mechanical issue.

Or maybe it's you.

 

[Ah2BFlyn]

Other shooters have similar difficulty. It's a factory refurbished G17, when I've placed it on a rest at the club it does shoot better... so it must be me. I didn't think that the Glocks would be that tough to shoot.

 

[JimB]

952

Why is it that your 952 can't be used for IDPA.??????

JimB

 

[BillO]

I've shot my G17 a few times in IDPA with good results. Groups well and fires every time I pull the trigger. Something has to be amiss.

 

[Hanwei]

You know... I'm used to the Glock trigger... and can shoot it as well as my 1911 or USP... but when I take my friends out shooting... only about 30% shoot well with the Glock compared to when they shoot the 1911. They all say the 1911 is "easier" to shoot.

And when asked what they mean they say it's the trigger. The 1911 is a clean single action break... so they know when the gun will go off. My friends don't like the Glock's DA pull as much. Or at least that's what they say causes them to be less accurate with it.

Obviously they need to practice with the Glock if they want to be more accurate with it.

I'm used to resetting the trigger so that it becomes essentially a single action. I let the trigger back just enough to let it reset between each shot.

Maybe you just need to practice more?

Dry fire a lot at home (unloaded and safely of course) to make sure the sights don't move when the gun "fires". Learn and get used to where the trigger breaks on the first shot and where the trigger resets on each shot afterwards.

If you say the gun is accurate on a benchrest... then you just need to practice.

 

[Big Daddy 45acp]

I am willing to bet that the problem lies withing your trigger finger and not the Glock.

They are two different animals. If this is your first Glock, it will take some time to get used to the trigger.

Dry fire practice is critical when transitioning from one type of action to another.

With the Glock, remember, it is a two stage trigger. Take up the slack, settle the sights then continue to press. Then on each subsequent shot, only release the trigger to the point of trigger reset. you should hear and feel an audible click. That is the point at which to stage the trigger for your next shot.

Also, you say the gun is refurbished. Treat it like a new gun. Give it about 500 rounds to break in and settle down.

Your profile doesn't say where you are located. If you are near the North Shore, I would be willing to give you some 1 on 1 pointers.

 

[Hanwei]

I am willing to bet that the problem lies withing your trigger finger and not the Glock.

They are two different animals. If this is your first Glock, it will take some time to get used to the trigger.

Dry fire practice is critical when transitioning from one type of action to another.

With the Glock, remember, it is a two stage trigger. Take up the slack, settle the sights then continue to press. Then on each subsequent shot, only release the trigger to the point of trigger reset. you should hear and feel an audible click. That is the point at which to stage the trigger for your next shot.

Also, you say the gun is refurbished. Treat it like a new gun. Give it about 500 rounds to break in and settle down.

Your profile doesn't say where you are located. If you are near the North Shore, I would be willing to give you some 1 on 1 pointers.

EXACTLY.

 

[jkelly]

My S&W 952 shoots like a dream and is an incredibility accurate firearm. If it didn’t have the safety on it's slide it would likely be my #1 IDPA gun, but instead I just shoot it at IDPA matches when I want the feeling of shooting a "quality" hand gun.

I couldn’t stand shooting my G17, although many shoot them very well, it is the only semi-auto pistol I’ve ever sold. The plus side is that if you can get used to shooting the G17, you can shoot it in SSP rather then ESP that the 952 requires.


Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[Ah2BFlyn]

Why is it that your 952 can't be used for IDPA.??????

JimB

My 952-2 is the long slide (6" barrel) and it won't fit in the IDPA regulation box. Plus it's 1 oz. heavier than allowed.

The 952-1 (5" barrel) does qualify for IDPA.

 

[Ah2BFlyn]

Thanks everyone for the advice.

I would agree it's me and the trigger pull issue. I don't feel so bad because other shooters at my club who shoot my 952 and switch to the G17 have similar problems. Interestingly the two-stage trigger of the G17 has made me shoot the 952 better, it's made me more aware of finger positioning.

I was toying around with the idea of getting a Para Ordnance Tac Five with the LDA trigger. But before I do that I'm determined to shoot the G17 better.

 

[USMC109]

A factory G-17 should group sub 2.5 inches at 25 yds. with accurate ammo, benched obviously unless something is wrong mechanically (ex.)sight off as mentioned above.Grip and trigger pull are the most important factors for accurate shooting.With gun empty and safe practice shooting dry-fire at home.The gun and sights should never move off target anymore than natural body movement from heartbeat and breathing.I usually inhale a full breath then let half of it out and hold the remaining half of my breath.This will help you to be more calm and steady.Most people anticipate the round/recoil from the gun.When you squeeze the trigger on any gun whether single/double action it should be a smooth continuous squeeze and follow through and when the gun fires it should be a surprise every time.Practice this at the range as well with live ammo.As mentioned above all Glock triggers reset a bit less than half travel so practice doing this with live ammo at the range as there is no need to let the trigger travel completely forward.This alone with the Glock will help make your shooting much more accurate.Hope this helps some

 

[Lugnut]

Apples to oranges. It's not just the trigger IMO, but many things. For comparison I often shoot groups at least half the size of my G19 with my plain 1911. Anytime I think I'm shooting good with my Glocks or M&Ps and I follow up with my 1911... it puts a damn big smile on my face.

You just can't compare something like the 952 to the G17... it's like comparing a Lexus to a Ford.... they just don't work the same.

 

[USMC109]

Apples to oranges. It's not just the trigger IMO, but many things. For comparison I often shoot groups at least half the size of my G19 with my plain 1911. Anytime I think I'm shooting good with my Glocks or M&Ps and I follow up with my 1911... it puts a damn big smile on my face.

You just can't compare something like the 952 to the G17... it's like comparing a Lexus to a Ford.... they just don't work the same.

That I understand and agree with but you should still be able to shoot each gun up to it's accuracy standard consistently...if you are a good,experienced shooter.You're right about that,I shoot much more tight groups with my 1911's as you said but that is the accuracy of those guns...not me.I guess you could put a $3k 1911 in anyone's hands and some may not even hit the black circle

 

[Lugnut]

That I understand and agree with but you should still be able to shoot each gun up to it's accuracy standard consistently...if you are a good,experienced shooter.You're right about that,I shoot much more tight groups with my 1911's as you said but that is the accuracy of those guns...not me.I guess you could put a $3k 1911 in anyone's hands and some may not even hit the black circle

Well... I think I might tend to disagree a little bit still. Under ideal conditions, I'd argue that most shooters can't even shoot up to the handguns' accuracy at 50 feet... off hand anyway. Going into a competitive situation where time does matter, not even close to the guns' potential from my experience. So most people I know, present self included, will (and do) absolutely benefit from the inherent advantages of certain guns. Nice triggers, long sight radius and good weight will most definitely offer a significant advantage in IDPA... maybe not on some of the close shots but certainly one targets at 15' plus. Now the 1911 presents other issues like the thumb safety but fit and function are all important regardless of the gun. These are just some my observations and personal experience. YMMV.

 

[M1911]

I'm a fairly experienced shooter with reasonable accuracy. I'm much more accurate with my 1911s than any of my Glocks. Of my three Glocks, I find that my Glock 17 is less accurate than my 23 and 34. I just don't care for the Glock trigger. I'm not saying that Glocks aren't accurate. I've seen people do some pretty fine shooting with Glocks. I just find 1911s easier to shoot quickly and accurately. YMMV.

One thing to note is that the stock Glock sights completely suck. They can be replaced easily and cheaply. Before you give up on the Glock 17, you might try replacing the sights and putting in a 3.5 lb connector.

 

[USMC109]

Well... I think I might tend to disagree a little bit still. Under ideal conditions, I'd argue that most shooters can't even shoot up to the handguns' accuracy at 50 feet... off hand anyway. Going into a competitive situation where time does matter, not even close to the guns' potential from my experience. So most people I know, present self included, will (and do) absolutely benefit from the inherent advantages of certain guns. Nice triggers, long sight radius and good weight will most definitely offer a significant advantage in IDPA... maybe not on some of the close shots but certainly one targets at 15' plus. Now the 1911 presents other issues like the thumb safety but fit and function are all important regardless of the gun. These are just some my observations and personal experience. YMMV.

I agree 100% with the fact that timed competitions make it much more difficult to be accurate.This is where target acquisition speed gets critical.Don't forget that most handgun accuracy tests are done on a benchrest or sandbag,not IDPA style and the long sight radius def. is an advantage.

M1911 made a great point that factory Glock sight do indeeed suck and I think a good set of iron sights would help a lot of shooters.I have iron sights on all my Glocks.

I don't think the thumb safety on a 1911 poses an issue,at least not for me.If you're used to carrying a 1911 enough the safety is the first thing to come off once the gun clears the holster before target acquisition is established and the short light trigger pull on a single action 1911 makes up the difference compared to say a Glock trigger which is heavy and long pull.I guess it's more a matter of what suits each person best.I can shoot as consistently with my Glocks as I can w/ my 1911's whether it be IDPA or just range shooting etc...as I said earlier the groups are not as tight but if you swapped out the barrel on a 19 or 23 for a match grade barrel I think they would be.

 

[Lugnut]

Speaking of 1911s... I was at Collector's today... They have a S&W PC 1911 that is just aching to come home with me some day! Damn.. that has once nice trigger.

 

[jkelly]

I'm a fairly experienced shooter with reasonable accuracy. I'm much more accurate with my 1911s than any of my Glocks. Of my three Glocks, I find that my Glock 17 is less accurate than my 23 and 34. I just don't care for the Glock trigger. I'm not saying that Glocks aren't accurate. I've seen people do some pretty fine shooting with Glocks. I just find 1911s easier to shoot quickly and accurately.---M1911

I heard the exact same story from a guy at the range today!

Respectfully,

jkelly

 

[n1heu]

The Glocks must be gripped very high on the grip and the wrist must be straight in line with the barrel and rigid when you shoot. The Glock is accurate but the grip is what makes the biggest difference in consistent accuracy. It must be remembered polymer(plastic) frame pistols tend to be very top heavy. The slide in it's initial recoil phase seems to affect the bullet placement more than a conventional pistol, ie 1911A1. You can counter this by hand placement and firmer than usual grip.
This is what I have found with my G22. I may be FOS, but that's how I see it.
mike

 

[TY43215]

For IDPA, all you really need to be able to shoot is a 6" group.

 

[USMC109]

The Glocks must be gripped very high on the grip and the wrist must be straight in line with the barrel and rigid when you shoot. The Glock is accurate but the grip is what makes the biggest difference in consistent accuracy. It must be remembered polymer(plastic) frame pistols tend to be very top heavy. The slide in it's initial recoil phase seems to affect the bullet placement more than a conventional pistol, ie 1911A1. You can counter this by hand placement and firmer than usual grip.
This is what I have found with my G22. I may be FOS, but that's how I see it.
mike

I think this is a very good point.I have a very strong grip so I overlooked mentioning this.I think most people who do overlook it b/c it's never was an issue for them.Prob. why my wife doesn't shoot as well w/ the glocks!