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Pretty impressive when the left convinces gun owners to go after their own.
- Thread starter rogersmithiii
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Glockster30
NES Member
It's not an argument. A simple question was asked, i.e., what has the NRA done for us? The simple answer is that they were involved in two landmark decisions in OUR favor. I'm confident that it played a role in additional decisions too.
History is fact, opinions are BS!
That was tried multiple times, very recently even. Wayne is still in charge and nothing has changed. So people are bailing. It happens. There are new and better organizations that actually stand for gun owners.
The NRA’s Influence May Be Shrinking
152 years into its existence as a defender of Second Amendment Rights, the National Rifle Association (NRA) isn’t as formidablethedeepdive.ca
Perhaps, instead of killing the NRA, we should clean the swamp out of it, and make it stronger.
They've never taught me anything. My only experiences with the NRA were forced memberships at some MA gun clubs.
Not exactly the best experience.
The NRA is a fantastic distraction for the left though. That is a legit use for them.
In McDonald, it was SAF case, NRA v Chicago was a different case that was combined by the courts. NRA rode SAF coattails on that
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Ergo, the NRA is bad. Because they never taught you anything personally.
That's kinda like an Israeli who has not been attacked by Hamas saying that Hamas is good.
This whole thread is a small testament to why we are losing the fight.
Glockster30
NES Member
It's the results that count. Without the NRA's participation, we would never know if either case was to our advantage without their help. Discussion over.
HARRYM
NES Member
Sadly you are correct. Wilful ignorance over rabid agendas is an immovable force.
not new guy
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You are making an argument by repeatedly bringing up their ability to recover legal fees. Apparently just to make the point that they were involved in two landmark decisions, though you could have just said that of course.
The point isn’t whether they were involved or not, it’s whether the case (and victory) would have happened if the NRA didn’t exist. It’s whether routing 2A dollars through the NRA machine is the most efficient way to get legal victories, vs donating directly to litigation orgs that don’t spam the shit out of us and that the left can’t rally against.
And what does “history is fact and opinions are bullshit” even mean?
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
Hmm lets see, who was more instrumental in the case being won. SAF, who brought the case to the Courts and had the majority of the time in front of the Court or the NRA who argues that they deserved time to argue in front of the Court. SAF said they did not bring anything substantive to the case, all the NRA wanted was their name on it so they could fund raise.
not new guy
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Who’s willfully ignorant and advancing a rabid agenda though, the posters defending the NRA or the ones questioning whether the NRA is our best bet?
Fixxah
NES Member
MRNA great again?The NRA’s Influence May Be Shrinking
152 years into its existence as a defender of Second Amendment Rights, the National Rifle Association (NRA) isn’t as formidable
Perhaps, instead of killing the NRA, we should clean the swamp out of it, and make it stronger.
I'm not sure that's a strong an argument as you think it is. You are absolutely correct that we will never know what would have happened without the NRA funding. But that knife cuts both ways. It is just as valid to say the cases would have been won without the NRA, because, as you said, we would never know.
However, from 2008 to 2023, the NRA collected a bit less than $2,000,000 in legal fees for those cases. They said they actually spent about 3x what they collected from NY, so assume all-in legal was $3,000,000 for the cases. Assuming LaPierre was making $100,000 / year back then, rising to his $1,000,000/year now linearly (and that's going to be a gross understatement of the real number), he's been paid more than $8,000,000 in the same period. 25% to outside groups, 75% to WLP for that pile of money doesn't come across as a great deal.
A better question is the utility of the organization now, where they're currently showing over $40,000,000 annually in legal expenses, exceeding the entire organization's payroll. Where are they dumping all that cash, because it sure isn't in 2A cases?
NRA-ILA | Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals Strikes Maryland’s Handgun Qualification License Requirement in NRA-Backed Case.
On Tuesday, a three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals ruled that Maryland’s Handgun Qualification License (“HQL”) requirement is unconstitutional under the Second Amendment.
www.nraila.org
Really? You think they spent $40,000,000 last year on that? Seems unlikely, considering that they're mentioned nowhere in the decision, unlike the FPC who are at least listed as an amici.NRA-ILA | Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals Strikes Maryland’s Handgun Qualification License Requirement in NRA-Backed Case.
On Tuesday, a three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals ruled that Maryland’s Handgun Qualification License (“HQL”) requirement is unconstitutional under the Second Amendment.
Maryland Shall Issue, Inc. v. Wes Moore, No. 21-2017 (4th Cir. 2023)
Plaintiffs sought to enjoin the state from enforcing only this additional, preliminary handgun-licensure requirement. The district court originally dismissed that challenge for lack of Article III standing, but we reversed and remanded for a decision on the merits. On remand, the district court...
law.justia.com
Really? You think they spent $40,000,000 last year on that? Seems unlikely, considering that they're mentioned nowhere in the decision, unlike the FPC who are at least listed as an amici.
Maryland Shall Issue, Inc. v. Wes Moore, No. 21-2017 (4th Cir. 2023)
Plaintiffs sought to enjoin the state from enforcing only this additional, preliminary handgun-licensure requirement. The district court originally dismissed that challenge for lack of Article III standing, but we reversed and remanded for a decision on the merits. On remand, the district court...
That is just one of many places the NRA spends it's money. Places where many people won't bother to look for.
HARRYM
NES Member
Or can't be bothered......
I'm not sure WHY I keep coming back to this thread.
If I wanted to feel like I'm baging my head against a brick wall I'd be better off thinking about She Who's Name Must Not Be Spoken.
Many places. Many, many places! Soooooo many places that their proponents can't even list them to support their arguments!
Again, $40,000,000/year for legal fees. Just legal fees. Enough to keep 80 lawyers busy full time if they're all getting $500,000 each. And naïve people keep rolling out the same few cases (none of which ever seem to list the NRA as a party or amici in the decision) as though it's an irrefutable argument to keep pouring money down the hole.
But beyond that, the NRA spends less than $7,000,000/year on the ILA. The $40,000,000 is outside of ILA activities. So what takes 6 times the legal effort beyond the ILA?
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Many places. Many, many places! Soooooo many places that their proponents can't even list them to support their arguments!
They are there for you to find also.
That is, if you would bother to look.
Many places. Many, many places! Soooooo many places that their proponents can't even list them to support their arguments!
Again, $40,000,000/year for legal fees. Just legal fees. Enough to keep 80 lawyers busy full time if they're all getting $500,000 each. And naïve people keep rolling out the same few cases (none of which ever seem to list the NRA as a party or amici in the decision) as though it's an irrefutable argument to keep pouring money down the hole.
But beyond that, the NRA spends less than $7,000,000/year on the ILA. The $40,000,000 is outside of ILA activities. So what takes 6 times the legal effort beyond the ILA?
I guess that you didn't get the memo on this. Please read the second paragraph.
GOAL - MA Assault Weapon Court Action
www.goal.org
So, you're complaining that I'm not spending time looking for material to support your arguments when you're not willing to?
Hey, another example of the NRA ratholing money. "With great legal and financial assistance from the National Rifle Association (NRA), we [lost]" is not a winning sales pitch.I guess that you didn't get the memo on this. Please read the second paragraph.
GOAL - MA Assault Weapon Court Action
Katrina 10 Years Later: "Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job."
President George W. Bush tells FEMA Director Michael Brown what he thinks of his handling of the natural disaster. Ten days later Brown would resign from his post.
www.c-span.org
However, you're still not addressing the elephant in the room:
$ 7,000,000 for the ILA
- against -
$ 6,330,000 in executive salaries
$36,000,000 in other salaries
$33,000,000 in fundraising costs
$40,000,000 in outside legal expenses NOT related to 2A cases.
$95,000,000 in other expenses
That's akin to letting the guy who mugs someone for a $100 get off scot free because he tossed a handful of change into the Salvation Army kettle as he ran past.
Look, if you want to throw money at the NRA in the hopes that the 3% they spend on 2A law does something, go for it. People waste their money on nonsense all the time.
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How?The NRA’s Influence May Be Shrinking
152 years into its existence as a defender of Second Amendment Rights, the National Rifle Association (NRA) isn’t as formidable
Perhaps, instead of killing the NRA, we should clean the swamp out of it, and make it stronger.
not new guy
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Are the NRA’s overhead costs greater than the overhead costs of the other 2A orgs fighting the battles in court? How much of a dollar given to the NRA makes its way to the courtroom vs a dollar given to the FPC?
Looking at the NRA using their 2022 form 990, it appears to be about 3% ($7 million out of $211 million).
Looking at the 990 for the Second Amendment Foundation, it appears to be about 44% ($3.0 million out of $6.8 million).
On the salary side, about 22% of NRA income goes to salaries, against 6% at the SAF.
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