is there anything in Ch90 (or 89) about blocking the free flow of traffic,
We had drivers cited by various PD's for blocking the street when we couldn't get into the bus stop for one reason or another.
-
If you enjoy the forum please consider supporting it by signing up for a NES Membership The benefits pay for the membership many times over.
-
Be sure to enter the NES/MFS May Giveaway ***Canik METE SFX***
Powers of Boston University Campus Police
- Thread starter richc
- Start date
is there anything in Ch90 (or 89) about blocking the free flow of traffic,
We had drivers cited by various PD's for blocking the street when we couldn't get into the bus stop for one reason or another.
Fair enough... but still, everyone has their own reasons for wanting to break parking rules. That's why 90% of the streets in the city of Boston are useless during the day, because cars are parking in the roadway because someone has urgent business that can't wait.
- Joined
- Jan 30, 2008
- Messages
- 3,435
- Likes
- 401
My point is not whether there is a citable offense under C90. It is that it is a parking issue (which is a municiple ordnance issue) and that C90 authority has nothing to do with ordering someone to move.
Last edited:
D
Deleted member 12999
I believe that is a CMR, but again, you would have to check city ordiances. The only c89/90 stuff off the top of my head regarding obstructing has to do with emergency vehicles.
ochmude
Marine Veteran
Yup. Surprising as it is, few people violate such ordinances purely for the sake of being a$$holes. I work part-time security for a housing complex, and there is a no-parking policy for the driveway in front of the building. Without exaggeration, several hundred times per shift I have to tell people to move their cars because they can't park in front of the building. Each and every one of them has what is to them a perfectly legitimate reason why the no parking policy doesn't apply to them in their specific circumstance. "Oh, but I'm just waiting for someone to come down", "I'm just dropping something off", "My friend just ran inside for 2 minutes" etc etc. However, the policy isn't "No parking except for you, because you obviously have a good reason." Granted, this is just a policy on private property, but the logic remains the same.
Some time ago I worked for the PD of a major university in Boston (not BU). My info came from the prosecutor for said PD, so I'm passing it on but won't vouch for the accuracy of any of that info. All FT POs of said university were fully academy trained and sworn in as Special State Police and Special Deputy Sheriffs.
I was told that campus POs do NOT have authority to give out traffic or parking tickets. They do it and enforce it upon students under threat of holding back grades (all laid out in the Student Handbook) . . . but if a non-student, non-staff member were to get a ticket they could safely ignore it. [NOTE: There is a statutory exception for UMass Police, they are authorized to issue traffic/parking tickets that will stick.]
Now, that said . . . if you refuse to move, he just needs to radio BPD to back him up and you can get a real ticket that will stick by a Boston PO.
Being polite and when you are in the wrong, following orders is the best solution regardless of what authority the BU PO has or perceives that he has.
HC, in Downtown Boston everyone double-parks. Even Boston PD double-parks to grab coffee or subs around the universities. Doesn't make it right, but it is SOP all over the Downtown area . . . and makes driving very difficult.
Exactly! As a Constable, I have the statutory authority to issue tickets . . . but none of us would ever be given a ticket book to do so! No desire to do it anyway as it wastes my time and I don't get paid to do that job. Just pointing out as the above does, that the RMV is very protective of WHO gets to issue tickets and if some agency "shares" the books and the RMV finds out there is hell to pay (book s/ns are logged as to what agency they were issued to) . . . it's happened before and raised a huge stink.
I was told that campus POs do NOT have authority to give out traffic or parking tickets. They do it and enforce it upon students under threat of holding back grades (all laid out in the Student Handbook) . . . but if a non-student, non-staff member were to get a ticket they could safely ignore it. [NOTE: There is a statutory exception for UMass Police, they are authorized to issue traffic/parking tickets that will stick.]
Now, that said . . . if you refuse to move, he just needs to radio BPD to back him up and you can get a real ticket that will stick by a Boston PO.
Being polite and when you are in the wrong, following orders is the best solution regardless of what authority the BU PO has or perceives that he has.
HC, in Downtown Boston everyone double-parks. Even Boston PD double-parks to grab coffee or subs around the universities. Doesn't make it right, but it is SOP all over the Downtown area . . . and makes driving very difficult.
Exactly! As a Constable, I have the statutory authority to issue tickets . . . but none of us would ever be given a ticket book to do so! No desire to do it anyway as it wastes my time and I don't get paid to do that job. Just pointing out as the above does, that the RMV is very protective of WHO gets to issue tickets and if some agency "shares" the books and the RMV finds out there is hell to pay (book s/ns are logged as to what agency they were issued to) . . . it's happened before and raised a huge stink.
ochmude
Marine Veteran
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
The politics behind all these private police forces is such that the "non-profit" institutions don't pay real estate taxes to support the local police. Therefore they're leaned on by the local politicians to pitch in and police their own. They also employ the mall cop variety inside the buildings BTW.
Menino has been making a stink for years about wanting the colleges to offer more on campus housing because as he sees it the student renters drive up rentals that displace his residents.![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
So BC has actually committed to 100% housing for it's undergraduates and is on track to accomplish just that. They even bought up every apartment in a high-rise and now it's a BC apartment building. However that means that Meninostan is not entitled to the tax from that property now, yet Menino wants it anyway as a voluntary tax. Menino really is as dumb as he looks.
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/07/25/menino_seeks_payments_from_bc/
Menino has been making a stink for years about wanting the colleges to offer more on campus housing because as he sees it the student renters drive up rentals that displace his residents.
So BC has actually committed to 100% housing for it's undergraduates and is on track to accomplish just that. They even bought up every apartment in a high-rise and now it's a BC apartment building. However that means that Meninostan is not entitled to the tax from that property now, yet Menino wants it anyway as a voluntary tax. Menino really is as dumb as he looks.http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/07/25/menino_seeks_payments_from_bc/
ochmude
Marine Veteran
Gotcha. Um, I'd say they probably do. I've talked with a couple guys that are police officers for STCC, and the limits of their jurisdiction is definitely stressed to them on a regular basis. Campuses try to maintain a good working relationship with the municipal police in their area. If they consistently overstepped their bounds, they'd quickly develop the same sort of reputation that many sheriff's offices have.
richc
NES Member
I just want to be perfectly clear, as I started a bit of a hornets nest:
- I was clearly illegally double parked, as were 30+ other people
- I've driven around the block numerous times never to find a legal parking space
- I was and am always polite and respectful to LE
- If there were a reasonable alternative to double parking I would do so
BU rents space to the orchestra. There are about 100 kids in the orchestra. Some families travel three hours each way to have their kids participate in this orchestra.
Beside this BU building is a BU parking lot. BU will not allow us to park there for the five minutes it takes to pick up our kids. But then they try to enforce parking on a parking on a public street in spite of the situation.
I am a very reasonable, agreeable guy by nature. I look for the path of least resistance. Parents in this situation are in a bind. As an extreme example there are several harp players in the orchestra. Kids bring their harp to practice. It weighs over 100 pounds with carrying case. My son carries a full sized cello in a large, protective carrying case along with music, drinks and a snack, notebook and music stand. What is a parent to do?
So I'll double park and take the risk. If I get a ticket I get a ticket. I take responsibility. If the ticket is issued by BU police I'll likely ask for my day in court. I am legally allowed to see if a magistrate is willing to listen to a reasonable guy. It will also test to see if BU is willing to pay one of their officers to go to court to defend this. They do seem to be willing to pay officers to enforce parking laws on public streets.
Finally, part of this is about my freedoms. We all know there are a lot of wannabes out there. Folks that pretend to have powers that they really don't. These may be security guards or campus police. On their turf their word is law. On public streets I'm a regular citizen who has rights.
I just wanted to know where my rights begin and end.
Thanks, everyone.
Best,
Rich
- I was clearly illegally double parked, as were 30+ other people
- I've driven around the block numerous times never to find a legal parking space
- I was and am always polite and respectful to LE
- If there were a reasonable alternative to double parking I would do so
BU rents space to the orchestra. There are about 100 kids in the orchestra. Some families travel three hours each way to have their kids participate in this orchestra.
Beside this BU building is a BU parking lot. BU will not allow us to park there for the five minutes it takes to pick up our kids. But then they try to enforce parking on a parking on a public street in spite of the situation.
I am a very reasonable, agreeable guy by nature. I look for the path of least resistance. Parents in this situation are in a bind. As an extreme example there are several harp players in the orchestra. Kids bring their harp to practice. It weighs over 100 pounds with carrying case. My son carries a full sized cello in a large, protective carrying case along with music, drinks and a snack, notebook and music stand. What is a parent to do?
So I'll double park and take the risk. If I get a ticket I get a ticket. I take responsibility. If the ticket is issued by BU police I'll likely ask for my day in court. I am legally allowed to see if a magistrate is willing to listen to a reasonable guy. It will also test to see if BU is willing to pay one of their officers to go to court to defend this. They do seem to be willing to pay officers to enforce parking laws on public streets.
Finally, part of this is about my freedoms. We all know there are a lot of wannabes out there. Folks that pretend to have powers that they really don't. These may be security guards or campus police. On their turf their word is law. On public streets I'm a regular citizen who has rights.
I just wanted to know where my rights begin and end.
Thanks, everyone.
Best,
Rich
I don't even understand what the question is??? Just like some "staties", some "townies", hell some "guys who sell flowers in gas station parking lots", how a campus police officer feels about CCW is thier personal opinion, some officers will think CCW is great others will think it is terrible...Maybe I'm wrong but I'd bet the job posting for the BU police doesn't read like this "must have bla bla bla experience with bla bla bla training along with bla bla bla certification and must not beleive in civilian CCW"...
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
You were there parked on a street in front of a BU building, picking up your son from an event held in a BU building...now i have no official documentation to this, but reasonable logic and common sense would say BUPD and BPD probably have somesort of agreement along the lines of "hey when you (BU) got something going on can you try to keep traffic flowing so we (BPD) don't have to tie up a car dealing with your traffic"
Last edited:
Oh great. Another police-state apologist. Just what NES needs.
OP: Yes, most area campus police forces have full police powers.
Um, Half Cocked IS a cop - and one of the better ones. He's also right.
richc
NES Member
Don't want to be disagreeable here, but since when do our laws and reasonable logic/common sense have anything in common? There are so many times and places where I would have expected the law to say or do one thing, only to find out that the complete opposite is true.
YMMV...
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Rich
Campus police in Mass are cops, period. They have the power to arrest you on campus and in the surrounding area. I wouldn't pull that stuff, especially while you have a CCW. I've seen Harvard & MIT campus police pull people over on public streets and arrest people all around Cambridge several times. I've even seen them assist Cambridge police in detaining suspects and searching for people on the run.
I too don't want to be disagreeable either, but when did I say anything about law? I simply stated that it makes sense that BUPD would be allowed to (if not expected to) keep traffic flowing when the traffic is "thier" traffic.Don't want to be disagreeable here, but since when do our laws and reasonable logic/common sense have anything in common? There are so many times and places where I would have expected the law to say or do one thing, only to find out that the complete opposite is true. YMMV...
To be perfectly honest I don't really see being asked to move allong (while double parked) as law/traffic/parking enforcement by BUPD, any more than if you were walking through BassPro's parking lot and saw someone non handicap parking in a handicap spot, and you said "hey don't park there"...
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2007
- Messages
- 6,022
- Likes
- 757
If the car says "police" on it, regardless of what type then they are exactly that.
I once had an environmental Police truck tailgating me on the highway. He was sniffing my butt pretty good and so I called the MSP. I was getting a little nervous that maybe I had run over a semi-extinct warbler or something way back. They informed me that anything that says "police" is actual "police" and yes the environmental police can actually pull you over on the the Mass Pike.
I'm not sure how true that is but that's what the dispatcher told me.
GBYSO!
I once had an environmental Police truck tailgating me on the highway. He was sniffing my butt pretty good and so I called the MSP. I was getting a little nervous that maybe I had run over a semi-extinct warbler or something way back. They informed me that anything that says "police" is actual "police" and yes the environmental police can actually pull you over on the the Mass Pike.
I'm not sure how true that is but that's what the dispatcher told me.
GBYSO!
flintoid
Banned
you, sir, are 100% correct.
I've been issued noise and speeding tickets on my motorcycle twice by these guys.
Personally, I don't mind them. I think it's nice that they keep the neighborhood fairly safe. Go south to Northeastern/Wentworth's mission hill neighborhood at night. Having lived there, I appreciate the BU police. Highly.
If you were double-parked I guess that means you were in a travel lane.
Why didn't you say to him, "There seems to be a traffic jam up ahead in my lane. As soon as it begins to flow again, I'll be driving along."
i work with bupd...they have more power than state police on the bu campus which extends all the way up and down comm ave
Fixed it for you to reflect reality. People double park and do other crazy crap with their cars in Boston because they have to, not because they want to.
Boston and large chunks of Cambridge are pretty "car unfriendly" to put it mildly. Then when it snows thats when the s**t really hits the fan.
-Mike
Garys
NES Member
Boston is over built for the road infrastructure. At least down town, the areas where the big schools are, and the Longwood Medical Area. Driving in those areas during the day time is almost impossible. I used to have an assignment at work that would require me to drive from Boston Medical Center to Longwood a few times a week. I would have to schedule about 90 minutes just for the drive, round trip.
All of the build out of the hospitals, colleges, and downtown businesses makes driving a nightmare. I firmly believe that some businesses are moving out of Boston for that reason alone.
Most students are in the dark as to what their campus police do, but the above list is "normal" on any urban campus. Add to that investigating/prosecuting murder and suicides and you have the entire gamut.
I was taught long ago by my law enforcement family members that anytime anyone in uniform, on official duty, in a clearly marked uniform of a police type, tells me to do anything, anything, I do it and keep my mouth shut and my thoughts and opinions to myself.
That is the best way to stay out of avoidable trouble. Just my thoughts.
At the moment of truth (i.e. when they are performing their duties) I'm not second-guessing them. With-in reason, lets not start what ifing me, please. I might question them after, like you are doing here, but NEVER question them in person unless you have free-time and very good connections. If you do argue, very likely at minimum you're going to ruin your daily schedule, and more then likely the cop's going to cuff you and stuff you like Roscoe P Coltrane. For what, being wrong in the first place. You’re going to lose arguing with cops.
I think you handled it fine, and brining it up after shows your maturity and restraint.
That is the best way to stay out of avoidable trouble. Just my thoughts.
At the moment of truth (i.e. when they are performing their duties) I'm not second-guessing them. With-in reason, lets not start what ifing me, please. I might question them after, like you are doing here, but NEVER question them in person unless you have free-time and very good connections. If you do argue, very likely at minimum you're going to ruin your daily schedule, and more then likely the cop's going to cuff you and stuff you like Roscoe P Coltrane. For what, being wrong in the first place. You’re going to lose arguing with cops.
I think you handled it fine, and brining it up after shows your maturity and restraint.
Similar threads
