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80 percent arms seems unphased
Yeah . More of a get em while they're hot postThat’s because they got the preliminary injunction against the turd burglars.
The issue is not "is an uncompleted lower a firearm" but "are the listed items readily converted to frames with little skill or expense and not requiring expensive tools?"The ATF is factually incorrect, because an uncompleted lower is no more a firearm than a dish of butter is, but ok...
They're not changing the definition of firearm. They're basically reversing their earlier determination letter, where they said it's not "readily converted" to a firearm. That is - within the common jargon - they're 81% complete as sold.The ATF is factually incorrect, because an uncompleted lower is no more a firearm than a dish of butter is, but ok...
First, it's not a ruling. Second, this letter only applies to Glock-style 80% frames, not AR- type. There are other work arounds, and the 0% is a great solution to a similar but different issue.Ghost gunner 3 is already ahead of what they want to do here. They have a three piece AR lower receiver you can build from a “0%” block of aluminum.
So technology has bypassed this ruling before they could even get it out of their ass.
I read that as taking about the ones in stores and warehouses right now...Please cite that law that a personally manufactured firearm must be serialized, ever. (Except possibly in California)
It transfers just like any other firearm.
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I read that as taking about the ones in stores and warehouses right now...
Their previous guidance was that they were not firearms, but if sold with jigs and tooling, they became "readily convertible", and thus firearms.That is, they're rescinding their previous guidance that these products were not firearms, and saying that they, in fact, are firearms. They proceed to define "Frame" and "readily" as they will from here forward be (subjectively) applied.
Please cite that law that a personally manufactured firearm must be serialized, ever. (Except possibly in California)
It transfers just like any other firearm.
I see the nuance now.What I'm saying, or trying to say, is that the letter that the ATF just released changes the classification of Poly80's and similar from a "not-firearm" to a firearm, and thus they now have to be serialized by the manufacturer. That serialization requirement flows down the line on all of the transfers from manufacturer to distributer to retailer to consumer.
Poly80's and their like are no longer "privately made firearms", as the starting point is now a firearm.
So, I'm not attempting to state that PMFs must be serialized - I'm stating that Poly80's and similar are no longer a non-firearm starting point to construct a PMF - they're now a firearm.
Which is of course ridiculous.
No, I don't believe so. As I understand it this guidance (not law) pertains to the sale and transfer of them going forward.What about the thousands of those P80 frame kits that are in people safes, they have to go get a 4473 and serialize them for each one? Whether they are brand new or completed?
Their previous guidance was that they were not firearms, but if sold with jigs and tooling, they became "readily convertible", and thus firearms.
Now they're saying it doesn't matter if jigs or tools are included: they're just straight-up firearms.
What about the thousands of those P80 frame kits that are in people safes, they have to go get a 4473 and serialize them for each one? Whether they are brand new or completed?
So, we will start seeing completed guns in the for sale area now? Considering how used gun prices are more than new ones. Will they include labor rates? If so, what is the hourly going for?
No federal requirement to serialize it, but some states like CA require serialization on completion, or like the MA requirement to document the "transfer" with an efa10. Not actually sure if any other states do that. It would be a bad state like NY or NJ if so...I don't think so.
There's nothing in that document that addresses 80% kits or completed firearms that are in end-users' posession; other than the fact that they're now considered "firearms".
So, that Poly80 in your safe, (completed or not), is now a firearm. Let's not forget that there are older firearms out there that aren't serial numbered. These are simply newer ones that aren't serial numbered. The only place I see a potential issue is if you transfer it. And quite frankly, I'm not sure whether it would have to be serialized at that point. In GA you can do a face to face sale without paperwork. In CT, "ghost guns" are now illegal to purchase, although they're still legal to posess if you had them prior to their law, (yeah - prove when you had it??).
the FA10 doesn't require serialization...No federal requirement to serialize it, but some states like CA require serialization similar to MA's efa10. Not actually sure if any other states do that. It would be a bad state like NY or NJ if so...
Ban aluminum!Ghost gunner 3 is already ahead of what they want to do here. They have a three piece AR lower receiver you can build from a “0%” block of aluminum.
So technology has bypassed this ruling before they could even get it out of their ass.
Correct. I used it as an example of a state law that applies when building firearms. I'll edit that for clarity.the FA10 doesn't require serialization...
No federal requirement to serialize it, but some states like CA require serialization on completion, or like the MA requirement to document the "transfer" with an efa10. Not actually sure if any other states do that. It would be a bad state like NY or NJ if so...
So is 79% fair game now?So, there is no reason to buy an 80% anymore?
Love itGhost gunner 3 is already ahead of what they want to do here. They have a three piece AR lower receiver you can build from a “0%” block of aluminum.
So technology has bypassed this ruling before they could even get it out of their ass.
They say they’re still good to go due to the injunction.80 percent arms seems unphased
That depends on whether MA requires items that are firearms to federal (but not state) standards to be locked up...So here’s a question: if you theoretically had an 80% lower… and now It is considered a “firearm” does it need to be locked in a safe in MA?