Peruta STANDS! Update post 70: Nope

Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
12,146
Likes
3,057
Location
SC
Appeal DENIED!

CA is now shall issue (if my understanding of the case is correct).

The panel denied motions to intervene, which were filed after the panel’s opinion and judgment holding that a responsible, law-abiding citizen has a right under the Second Amendment to carry a firearm in public for self-defense.

Now we have circuit courts in disagreement with one another.

SCOTUS will very likely take up a carry case once one is appealed to them.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...eruta-appeal-ca-gun-rights-restored/#comments
 
Last edited:

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
82,880
Likes
70,721
Appeal DENIED!

CA is now shall issue (if my understanding of the case is correct).



Now we have circuit courts in disagreement with one another.

SCOTUS will very likely take up a carry case once one is appealed to them.

Is it also possible they could just go lazebag mode and leave the conflict in place? Or is this something "generally not done". Does it mean that someone is going to have to appeal from one of the "wrong" circuits to the SC?

Should be fun seeing what happens in CA when the sheriffs are forced to implement this.

-Mike
 
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
13,326
Likes
6,631
Great.

But will they roll the dice and appeal or will they chicken out like Illinois? Hopefully their arrogance will get them to appeal it, I think it depends on who the appealee would be. The CA AG Kamela Harris is a loon and would appeal if she is the one who has that choice.
 
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
13,326
Likes
6,631
Anyone know if CA could appeal to SCOTUS and have them take it up this term or is that window closed?
 
Rating - 100%
21   0   0
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
6,665
Likes
2,107
Location
Raleigh NC
This is great news, but IIRC one of the Sheriffs in CA said he will not issue permits. So what happens now if he denies someone a permit and they're not barred by state or federal law?
 

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
82,880
Likes
70,721
This is great news, but IIRC one of the Sheriffs in CA said he will not issue permits. So what happens now if he denies someone a permit and they're not barred by state or federal law?

I believe the applicant can take the sheriff to federal court and that court can essentially force them to issue a license, or something to that effect.

-Mike
 
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Jan 22, 2013
Messages
13,326
Likes
6,631
This is great news, but IIRC one of the Sheriffs in CA said he will not issue permits. So what happens now if he denies someone a permit and they're not barred by state or federal law?

The one sued was Gore in San Diego. He said a few things. First he said he didn't want to appeal anymore and would start accepting applications for CCW's but would not issue them until the lower court issue guidance. Then a few weeks later Kamala Harris and wanted to appeal and Gore wanted out but for Harris to be able to take over the case and appeal.

I'm sure the Sheriff's in some of the other coastal counties will put up a major fight until they can't.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/feb/21/sheriff-challenge-gun-permit-ruling-appeal/
 

Quiet

Banned
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
9,654
Likes
1,804
Location
2122 N. Clark St.
So they didn't rule on the merits of an appeal, they denied motions to intervene and since there was nobody left appealing there is no appeal.

If I'm getting this right.
 

AllaSnackbah

NES Member
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
6,885
Likes
7,021
I personally know Ed, he's helping me with some legal issues currently. Awesome guy I'm glad he's taking it to them.
 
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
374
Likes
71
Location
Maynard, MA
Is there any carry case that has a petition for cert before the Supreme Court at present? I believe they denied cert to Drake v. Jerejian (the New Jersey case) earlier this year.

Can Peruta still be appealed to the Supreme Court (either by the sheriff, if someone leans on him enough, or by someone else)?
 
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
12,146
Likes
3,057
Location
SC
Is there any carry case that has a petition for cert before the Supreme Court at present? I believe they denied cert to Drake v. Jerejian (the New Jersey case) earlier this year.

Can Peruta still be appealed to the Supreme Court (either by the sheriff, if someone leans on him enough, or by someone else)?

I am not aware of any at the moment. But that is not to say another won't come along that is already in the pipeline.

Also I do believe that only the Sheriff can appeal to SCOTUS because the brady bunch and the state AG were denied the ability to intervene.

I wonder if SCOTUS denied Drake in the hopes that the Ninth Circuit decided the opposite of how they did in order to overturn a 9th circuit case (thus adding to the pile of cases from the ninth that SCOTUS overturns).
 
Last edited:
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
7,367
Likes
3,786
Location
Deep in the woods of SC
Is it also possible they could just go lazebag mode and leave the conflict in place? Or is this something "generally not done". Does it mean that someone is going to have to appeal from one of the "wrong" circuits to the SC?

Should be fun seeing what happens in CA when the sheriffs are forced to implement this.

-Mike

That. It is the same reason the SC is taking up obamacare. Two high courts in conflict has to be resolved and the SC is the only court that can do that. At least this has always been my understanding. I don't think it matters which side appeals. It is the same topic, just opposite sides of the coin, STS.
 

Quiet

Banned
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Jan 31, 2013
Messages
9,654
Likes
1,804
Location
2122 N. Clark St.
This is awesome. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to actually change anything in Hawaii, where they will likely drag their feet even more than CA.
I gotta say if I can bring my stuff and carry there, it would be a stiff competition between Texas and Hawaii. I love Aloha shirts and being in a place where I'd be called "Tiny" non sarcastically.
 

terraformer

NES Member
Rating - 100%
32   0   0
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
16,938
Likes
2,695
Appeal DENIED!

CA is now shall issue (if my understanding of the case is correct).



Now we have circuit courts in disagreement with one another.

SCOTUS will very likely take up a carry case once one is appealed to them.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...eruta-appeal-ca-gun-rights-restored/#comments

We have had circuit courts disagreeing with each other since CA2 and CA3. They both agreed the result was ok, but for very different reasons. CA9 can still overturn Peruta, but as part of Richards and not directly. It would be fundamentally the same however. So Peruta the decision stands, the lawyers get their fees, and then CA9 enbanc rules that Peruta was wrong and goes with a CA2 like decision. So for the coming weeks/months, CA is sorta shall issue, but the reality is likely going to be very different in a few months. And there is nothing saying CA counties will adhere to Peruta while Richards is waiting for en banc.
 
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Sep 15, 2009
Messages
12,146
Likes
3,057
Location
SC
We have had circuit courts disagreeing with each other since CA2 and CA3. They both agreed the result was ok, but for very different reasons. CA9 can still overturn Peruta, but as part of Richards and not directly. It would be fundamentally the same however. So Peruta the decision stands, the lawyers get their fees, and then CA9 enbanc rules that Peruta was wrong and goes with a CA2 like decision. So for the coming weeks/months, CA is sorta shall issue, but the reality is likely going to be very different in a few months. And there is nothing saying CA counties will adhere to Peruta while Richards is waiting for en banc.

There you go injecting logic and reason and softening everyone's freedom boner [rofl]
 

terraformer

NES Member
Rating - 100%
32   0   0
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
16,938
Likes
2,695
There you go injecting logic and reason and softening everyone's freedom boner [rofl]

Hey, it still puts CA9 at a major disadvantage. They have a standing decision that they need to discredit in order to overrule it. CA9 does some really stupid shit, so who knows, but I would rather have the entire circuit in this situation than having a lunatic anti-gun panel feeding the enbanc panel. At least now they will have to work to justify taking out Peruta.

There is a lot of backslapping going on right now so caution in listening to the people slapping their own backs because this is not over by a long shot.
 

terraformer

NES Member
Rating - 100%
32   0   0
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
16,938
Likes
2,695
@MichelLawyers: "The 9th Circuit's denial of the AG's request to intervene in Peruta, is a vital confirmation of the right to self defense." - Chuck Michel

Here is an example of the auto back slapping that is going on. While I would want to think this, the same panel as decided Peruta made the decision today to ignore the states intervenor request, and rightfully so. That strategically still allows the AG to take over for Yolo county in Richards and get en banc in that case.
 
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
1,319
Likes
231
Hey, it still puts CA9 at a major disadvantage. They have a standing decision that they need to discredit in order to overrule it. CA9 does some really stupid shit, so who knows, but I would rather have the entire circuit in this situation than having a lunatic anti-gun panel feeding the enbanc panel. At least now they will have to work to justify taking out Peruta.

.


Can you dumb this down a bit for me please? (Or anyone)

Maybe a sports analogy or 2?
 
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
May 28, 2013
Messages
374
Likes
71
Location
Maynard, MA
Can you dumb this down a bit for me please? (Or anyone)

Maybe a sports analogy or 2?

The panel said that the A.G. and Brady can't ask for Peruta to be reviewed by the entire court because they only involved themselves in the case after Peruta had won. (Can't ask for a do-over after the game is over.)

But there is another case (Richards) in the pipeline that can still end up being heard by the entire court. Therefore, the Ninth Circuit will soon have an opportunity to overturn what their own panel said in Peruta.
 

terraformer

NES Member
Rating - 100%
32   0   0
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
16,938
Likes
2,695
Can you dumb this down a bit for me please? (Or anyone)

Maybe a sports analogy or 2?

NFL zebras and replay. In order for the instant replay to overrule the call on the field, there needs to be clear evidence the call on the field was made in error.

In order to, based on stare decisis (which means tradition), for the circuit to overrule a previous circuit decision, is that they must show the previous decision was clearly in error. And only en banc can overrule another en banc decision. So, based on loose rules of tradition, the bar for an en banc in Richards to overrule Peruta is higher. The safe thing for CA9 to do is to uphold Peruta but neuter it with exceptions you can drive a truck through. If they are ballsy, they will just kill Peruta off which is what everyone on our side is wanting, so as to goad SCOTUS to take the case.
 
Rating - 100%
4   0   0
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
1,319
Likes
231
NFL zebras and replay. In order for the instant replay to overrule the call on the field, there needs to be clear evidence the call on the field was made in error.

In order to, based on stare decisis (which means tradition), for the circuit to overrule a previous circuit decision, is that they must show the previous decision was clearly in error. And only en banc can overrule another en banc decision. So, based on loose rules of tradition, the bar for an en banc in Richards to overrule Peruta is higher. The safe thing for CA9 to do is to uphold Peruta but neuter it with exceptions you can drive a truck through. If they are ballsy, they will just kill Peruta off which is what everyone on our side is wanting, so as to goad SCOTUS to take the case.


So they can get cute and work around it, or basically say "no we were wrong, and the opposite is true", which will then open the doors to SCOTUS?
 
Top Bottom