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Pepper Spray = Grounds for Termination
- Thread starter Rekonn
- Start date
Be "vigilant" means hold in your pee before you leave the office so that you have plenty to wet yourself with when you need to.
Nearly all companies do have some kind of policy like this, including mine. It's important to keep in mind that discovery of the pepper spray is unlikely, unless you need to use it in the office for some reason, which is very unlikely. You'd be more likely to need it while heading to the T (or to the car, not sure which you do), and you're already outside the building by then. If someone tries to mug you on the street, what are you going to do, go contact HR and say you managed to save yourself from severe harm by spraying a bad guy with pepper spray that you earlier carried into the office? Why would anyone do that?
If you drive to work, you could also opt to leave it in the car, which yes I know also violates my company's policies. But, if it ever comes down to them calling me to HR and demanding that I open my car up for them to search, I'm already screwed anyway... there's no need to ever open up your car and allow your employer to search it since whatever they are targeting you with they've already decided you're evil and guilty. So, if the car search demand ever happens, just collect your stuff, get in the car, drive away and expect to never be allowed back.
Nearly all companies do have some kind of policy like this, including mine. It's important to keep in mind that discovery of the pepper spray is unlikely, unless you need to use it in the office for some reason, which is very unlikely. You'd be more likely to need it while heading to the T (or to the car, not sure which you do), and you're already outside the building by then. If someone tries to mug you on the street, what are you going to do, go contact HR and say you managed to save yourself from severe harm by spraying a bad guy with pepper spray that you earlier carried into the office? Why would anyone do that?
If you drive to work, you could also opt to leave it in the car, which yes I know also violates my company's policies. But, if it ever comes down to them calling me to HR and demanding that I open my car up for them to search, I'm already screwed anyway... there's no need to ever open up your car and allow your employer to search it since whatever they are targeting you with they've already decided you're evil and guilty. So, if the car search demand ever happens, just collect your stuff, get in the car, drive away and expect to never be allowed back.
Makes sense. It's one wrong (someone suing company instead of moron/criminal responsible) causing other wrong (prohibiting carry for all). No checks, no pat downs, so it's probably just plausible deniability rather than a thoroughly enforced prohibition.
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The chances of getting a civil judgement against a company for not allowing you to carry a defensive weapon on company premises is ranks right up there with the chances of a Republicans gaining a majority in the MA house and senate at the next election.
As to pepper spray - your chances of actually getting fired, rather than at talking to, for carrying pepper spray go way up if you ask in advance.
This.
I don't consider any of my guns or knives weapons either.
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mibro
NES Member
HR’s number one task is to protect the company from law suits. After that their top priority is to stop the company hiring any women who’re more attractive than they are.
If HR knows who you are you’re already on the super-secret shit list.
If HR knows who you are you’re already on the super-secret shit list.
I work for a company in the city of Boston. A couple weeks ago HR sends an email forwarded by our building manager warning about a recent spike in assaults and robberies, asking people to be vigilant. Responding to this, I asked HR if it would be ok have pepper spray on me. Got answer today, of course not.Company policy prohibits possession of firearms or other weapons while on the premises. HR clarified to me that "or other weapons" includes pepper spray.
Is it in the handbook? If it isn't, then you just basically shot yourself in the foot. NEVER ask. Now you're "flagged".
-Mike
**** asking just carry always. Never tell. If it comes down to protecting yourself a handbook is the last thing you'd consider.
Do we need to parse this from a capability/intent perspective? It certainly should be clear from the wording of the policy, if not from the functional specifications of the tools under consideration, that there is a difference.
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I didn't have to wait for a letter from the property manager to tell me the down town crossing area could be a problem .
from the globe:
For all the disappointment, angst, and hope wrapped up in the crater where the old Filene’s department store once stood, the former Filene’s site is an imperfect metaphor for Downtown Crossing’s long-running struggles. The Filene’s pit only became the manifestation of neighborhood blight a few years ago. The old Lafayette Place mall, which looms over Washington Street, two blocks down from Filene’s, has been a monument to Downtown Crossing’s failures for decades.
Lafayette Place was supposed to lift up a derelict end of a struggling commercial district. Instead, the redevelopment fell victim to the torpor that has plagued Boston’s downtown since the 1960s. Now, with Lafayette Place’s current corporate occupants preparing to relocate to the booming Seaport district, there’s no stronger barometer for Downtown Crossing’s current renaissance than the latest repositioning project at the snakebitten Lafayette complex.
from the globe:
For all the disappointment, angst, and hope wrapped up in the crater where the old Filene’s department store once stood, the former Filene’s site is an imperfect metaphor for Downtown Crossing’s long-running struggles. The Filene’s pit only became the manifestation of neighborhood blight a few years ago. The old Lafayette Place mall, which looms over Washington Street, two blocks down from Filene’s, has been a monument to Downtown Crossing’s failures for decades.
Lafayette Place was supposed to lift up a derelict end of a struggling commercial district. Instead, the redevelopment fell victim to the torpor that has plagued Boston’s downtown since the 1960s. Now, with Lafayette Place’s current corporate occupants preparing to relocate to the booming Seaport district, there’s no stronger barometer for Downtown Crossing’s current renaissance than the latest repositioning project at the snakebitten Lafayette complex.
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![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Palladin
NES Member
I was in Lafayette Place once! The way it's laid out makes it a perfect avenue for muggings!! F that!!
Palladin
NES Member
This. I've seen more than one occasion where a disgruntled field employee shows up at the office for a pound of flesh. At one place, a field guy hit the Operations Manager, who then proceeded to kick the shit out of the guy in his office!! He was pissed a table in his office broke!
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
not new guy
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I work for a large, multinational corporation. Our handbook and our policies are all silent on weapons. It's come up in the past, and we're comfortable with things the way they are. As has been mentioned, the existence of a no weapons policy can be argued two ways: The policy is either a necessary step to avoid being negligent (the direction your hypothetical heads in), or having a policy creates risk for the company to the extent that you're rendering your employees defenseless and not actively taking steps to provide protection for them yourself.
not new guy
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This. I've seen more than one occasion where a disgruntled field employee shows up at the office for a pound of flesh. At one place, a field guy hit the Operations Manager, who then proceeded to kick the shit out of the guy in his office!! He was pissed a table in his office broke!
Assuming there was a no weapons policy...
Do you think the guy looking for his pound of flesh took the policy into consideration before assaulting the Ops Manager? In other words, did the policy prevent him from stabbing or shooting him? What if the guy had said screw the policy, I want to poke holes in this dude and showed up with a knife - could the policy have prevented the OM from protecting himself?
GlockJock
NES Member
...but, unfortunately, not the President that really matters (POTUS! Or, in Puke-a-chusetts, the President of the Senate)
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
that's signature worthy material right there
This. . all this "liability" bullshit about "weapons must be prohibited by policy" is lawyerly phantasm that doesn't hunt in reality. It's something they put in the handbooks to make dumb brass tack types feel good. and generate billable hours/time writing it.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
-Mike
can I work for you?
I work for a company in the city of Boston. A couple weeks ago HR sends an email forwarded by our building manager warning about a recent spike in assaults and robberies, asking people to be vigilant. Responding to this, I asked HR if it would be ok have pepper spray on me. Got answer today, of course not.
mine too. while I don't carry on me, I have a locked pistol in my tacti-cool bag. better than nothing.
last summer there was a tornado warning in my area and they tried to herd everyone in the basement. I said no thanks, packed up and left. I'd rather take my chances out there with my GHB then stuck in the basement of a 3 story building that's not designed to withstand tornadoes. i work with these savages, I 'aint getting buried under tons of rubble with them too.
I mention this because I got called into HR too after the fact because I chose to take responsibility for my own safety. It was such a foreign concept to them that i didn't want to follow the herd to the basement. Ultimately, that's why I risk my job and "carry" at work. I work in and industry where we do get angry customers now and again and I'm pretty sure the glass door and 60 yo receptionist isn't up to the task of fending off some nut job who feels they've been wronged.
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namedpipes
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not new guy
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My company was looking at our emergency/disaster policies a few years back and this subject sort of came up. We're based in a big building in the city that would be a pretty big target for an attack. Our previous plan, and the plan that most of the companies in the building seem to follow is for everyone to rendezvous in some other outdoor area nearby so that supervisors can take headcounts. After some discussion we re-wrote our plan to have everybody just GTFO and make sure to touch base with their supervisor however they could, and as soon as they could after the fact. It just didn't make sense for us to try to herd/contain and control everybody in a situation like 9/11, for example. What happens if there's a secondary attack? What happens if there's some sort of contamination in the area? What happens if somebody freaks out and wants to get out of the city ASAP? Are we supposed to assume that person is trapped inside? In the end we realized that it would be much better (from both a common sense perspective and a corporate risk perspective) to let people take care of themselves once outside the building than to try to treat them like schoolchildren.
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
My company old hr lady wasn't that bad looking for her age. but after she got hired the hot young girls in the office started getting laid off for messed up reasons or getting in trouble for dresses that where ok with the dress code. More or less of they had a big chest and wore some thing right but not showing they got spoken to by her and month later let go.
The prez Is a dirty older dude IT guy said his computer was messed up from all the porn sites he went to lol. After the last hot chic got laid of hr lady was fired and a lot of the girls re hired . Lol
namedpipes
NES Member
One of my clients (a company in the construction trades) the office staff was mainly female and except for one, were all smoking hot. A couple approached runway model hot. We used to fight over who got to go to that site...
Judging by the browser hx on the computer used by the person that did the hiring, it was not by accident.
To me "weapon" implies offense. Everything I own is for defense. That said I value my job too much to carry a handgun, but have no problem claiming ignorance on the can of pepper spray in my pocket.
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Did the "news" actually cover this? This post is the first I've heard of it. I know the knockout game, etc has been going on, but groups this size makes it feel like it's escalating, no? Maybe I'm naive.
