Pennsylvania non resident license

kalash

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If I'm driving through PA, can I enter the state with a gun locked per FOPA, find the nearest sheriff's office, and apply for a permit? If I get it, the gun goes in my holster; if not, I keep driving until I'm out of PA.

Or is this a no-no?
 

ProGun

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If I'm driving through PA, can I enter the state with a gun locked per FOPA, find the nearest sheriff's office, and apply for a permit? If I get it, the gun goes in my holster; if not, I keep driving until I'm out of PA.

Or is this a no-no?

If you have a NH P&R you can carry in PA. It's one of the few non-resident permits PA still honors. And I'm not an expert on PA law, but I'm 99% sure you are fine with a locked up handgun in PA without any permits whatsoever. I'd review the law, but based on a quick read, you may even be okay with carry in your car with your MA LTC.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf
 
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rivet_42

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If I'm driving through PA, can I enter the state with a gun locked per FOPA, find the nearest sheriff's office, and apply for a permit? If I get it, the gun goes in my holster; if not, I keep driving until I'm out of PA.

Or is this a no-no?

You should be good doing exactly what you describe. Pennsylvania does not require any sort of license to possess or transport, nor do I think they have any restrictions (e.g. magazine capacity, modern sporting rifles with "evil" features) on non-class-III firearms. They don't have con-carry but they are by no means "hostile territory" the way NJ would be.

In theory any sheriff's office should give you a nonresident LTCF, since they're "shall-issue", but not all counties want to do it. There's a list on pafoa.org (too lazy to look for it right now) about which counties will and won't. Might be worth calling ahead?

For that matter OC is legal in PA except in Philadelphia, where a LTCF is required. The only parts of PA I have extensive experience with are Philly and its suburbs (Delaware, Chester, Montgomery, and Bucks Counties), and in those places, OC would be unusual. Not sure what reaction you would get doing it.

This is the law as I understand it, and I may be wrong. Do your own research.
 

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There is no "non resident" LTC per se. It's up to the sheriffs whether or not they will issue to people who don't live in their county. Most of them have current info on their websites. I just looked until I found one on my route that would accept applications from non county residents. Some have applications on line that you can fill in,print, and bring with you. That saves some time.


You should be good doing exactly what you describe. Pennsylvania does not require any sort of license to possess or transport, nor do I think they have any restrictions (e.g. magazine capacity, modern sporting rifles with "evil" features) on non-class-III firearms. They don't have con-carry but they are by no means "hostile territory" the way NJ would be.

In theory any sheriff's office should give you a nonresident LTCF, since they're "shall-issue", but not all counties want to do it. There's a list on pafoa.org (too lazy to look for it right now) about which counties will and won't. Might be worth calling ahead?

For that matter OC is legal in PA except in Philadelphia, where a LTCF is required. The only parts of PA I have extensive experience with are Philly and its suburbs (Delaware, Chester, Montgomery, and Bucks Counties), and in those places, OC would be unusual. Not sure what reaction you would get doing it.

This is the law as I understand it, and I may be wrong. Do your own research.
 

kalash

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If you have a NH P&R you can carry in PA. It's one of the few non-resident permits PA still honors. And I'm not an expert on PA law, but I'm 99% sure you are fine with a locked up handgun in PA without any permits whatsoever. I'd review the law, but based on a quick read, you may even be okay with carry in your car with your MA LTC.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf
I have a non-resident NH permit, which would not be recognized in PA, according to this: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...dent-license?p=4792693&viewfull=1#post4792693
 
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You should be good doing exactly what you describe. Pennsylvania does not require any sort of license to possess or transport, nor do I think they have any restrictions (e.g. magazine capacity, modern sporting rifles with "evil" features) on non-class-III firearms. They don't have con-carry but they are by no means "hostile territory" the way NJ would be.

In theory any sheriff's office should give you a nonresident LTCF, since they're "shall-issue", but not all counties want to do it. There's a list on pafoa.org (too lazy to look for it right now) about which counties will and won't. Might be worth calling ahead?

For that matter OC is legal in PA except in Philadelphia, where a LTCF is required. The only parts of PA I have extensive experience with are Philly and its suburbs (Delaware, Chester, Montgomery, and Bucks Counties), and in those places, OC would be unusual. Not sure what reaction you would get doing it.

This is the law as I understand it, and I may be wrong. Do your own research.

This. Once you have arrived in PA, you will no longer be covered by FOPA because you will be making a stop, but it doesn't matter because possession doesn't require a license in PA.

Edit to add: I spend a lot of time in central PA, from Millersburg east to Lancaster/York. Open carry isn't common around there (I don't remember seeing anyone carrying openly) either, but I wouldn't expect people to freak out about it. Concealed carry seems to be way more common there than it is here.

- - - Updated - - -

Is this a walk in and out process or a mail and wait?

Walk in, walk out. They take your picture, print the card, and laminate it right there. At least that is how it was done in Lancaster county.
 

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If I'm driving through PA, can I enter the state with a gun locked per FOPA, find the nearest sheriff's office, and apply for a permit? If I get it, the gun goes in my holster; if not, I keep driving until I'm out of PA.

Or is this a no-no?

Perfectly legal.

I have a non-resident NH permit, which would not be recognized in PA, according to this: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...dent-license?p=4792693&viewfull=1#post4792693

There has been a pissing contest between the AG and PA SP, so I wouldn't count on this. It keeps going back and forth so I don't feel comfortable trusting to my NH NR license.


This. Once you have arrived in PA, you will no longer be covered by FOPA because you will be making a stop, but it doesn't matter because possession doesn't require a license in PA.

Walk in, walk out. They take your picture, print the card, and laminate it right there. At least that is how it was done in Lancaster county.

Untrue! FOPA still covers him, he just doesn't need it in PA, but might depending on where else he drives to/thru.

My PA NR LTC is close to EOL (and I don't travel there) but it was too big to fit in a wallet. With (retired now) Sheriff Denny Nau's permission (Centre County) I reduced it to credit card size and laminated that. The original is too big and tissue paper. I did it thru the Mail (just before that stopped being acceptable) and the didn't laminate it.

Others have reported 15 minutes in and out with LTC in hand in various parts of PA.
 
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Perfectly legal.



There has been a pissing contest between the AG and PA SP, so I wouldn't count on this. It keeps going back and forth so I don't feel comfortable trusting to my NH NR license.




Untrue! FOPA still covers him, he just doesn't need it in PA, but might depending on where else he drives to/thru.

My PA NR LTC is close to EOL (and I don't travel there) but it was too big to fit in a wallet. With (retired now) Sheriff Denny Nau's permission (Centre County) I reduced it to credit card size and laminated that. The original is too big and tissue paper. I did it thru the Mail (just before that stopped being acceptable) and the didn't laminate it.

Others have reported 15 minutes in and out with LTC in hand in various parts of PA.
My understanding of FOPA is that once you make a non essential stop, FOPA no longer applies. Once he parks at the sheriff office, I don't think FOPA applies because he is no longer on a continuous journey. FOPA applies again as soon as he leaves, if his destination is out of state
 

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FOPA requires you to be legal at the beginning of any leg of a journey and legal at whatever point the person stops for MORE than gas, quick bite to eat, bathroom break.

PA requires NO licenses to possess/transport, thus MA to PA is FOPA compliant with a MA LTC. PA to wherever (if legal "wherever") would be a second leg of a journey and potentially legal depending on where he stops next.
 

rivet_42

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My understanding of FOPA is that once you make a non essential stop, FOPA no longer applies. Once he parks at the sheriff office, I don't think FOPA applies because he is no longer on a continuous journey. FOPA applies again as soon as he leaves, if his destination is out of state

The question is, "What is a journey?" ("That depends on what the meaning of 'is', is.")

It would seem to me that if kalash stops in PA to get his LTCF, then it's two separate journeys: one from MA to PA, and the other from PA to his ultimate destination. If he's legal to possess in MA, PA, and wherever he ultimately ends up, then FOPA still covers him traveling through, e.g., NY state. Under PA law, kalash is legal in PA even with no LTCF as long as the firearms are being transported in accordance with PA state law, whatever that may be. (FOPA standard--guns in one locked container and ammo in another, separate locked container--should probably suffice.)
 

USA

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Good to know. So the wording of the agreement allowing all licensees was basically a mistake that they aren't planning to honor anymore.

It's also interesting that they say that "may apply for one with any PA Sheriff's Office" when several Sheriffs refuse to accept applications, and even have signs up saying so.

That wording is not included on their website. The state police reference the AGs site which does not differentiate between resident or non resident, so this person just made up a stipulation that is not there. This is how it reads to me.
 

kalash

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The question is, "What is a journey?" ("That depends on what the meaning of 'is', is.")

It would seem to me that if kalash stops in PA to get his LTCF, then it's two separate journeys: one from MA to PA, and the other from PA to his ultimate destination. If he's legal to possess in MA, PA, and wherever he ultimately ends up, then FOPA still covers him traveling through, e.g., NY state. Under PA law, kalash is legal in PA even with no LTCF as long as the firearms are being transported in accordance with PA state law, whatever that may be. (FOPA standard--guns in one locked container and ammo in another, separate locked container--should probably suffice.)
That's exactly it. I'm driving to MI. Gun will be per FOPA through NY. I used to think I could carry in PA with my NH non-res but apparently not, so I was thinking of keeping the gun "FOPA'd" into PA and driving straight to a sheriff's office, getting my permit on the spot, and carrying the rest of the way.
 
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That wording is not included on their website. The state police reference the AGs site which does not differentiate between resident or non resident, so this person just made up a stipulation that is not there. This is how it reads to me.
The previous AG explicitly said non nh residents could carry on an NH permit. That was what kept people from needing to worry about the state police. The current ag has said better not until we figure out things. if i remember right the PA law that authorizes reciprocity agreements doesn't include non residents, so what the agreement itself says isn't that relevant. An agreement can't exceed it's statutory restrictions
 
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The question is, "What is a journey?" ("That depends on what the meaning of 'is', is.")

It would seem to me that if kalash stops in PA to get his LTCF, then it's two separate journeys: one from MA to PA, and the other from PA to his ultimate destination. If he's legal to possess in MA, PA, and wherever he ultimately ends up, then FOPA still covers him traveling through, e.g., NY state. Under PA law, kalash is legal in PA even with no LTCF as long as the firearms are being transported in accordance with PA state law, whatever that may be. (FOPA standard--guns in one locked container and ammo in another, separate locked container--should probably suffice.)
I agree with you. I just think len didn't fully read my post. Suppose PA had some law that would apply to Kalash, he would not be protected by fopa while stopped at the sheriff office. PA doesn't, so it's a meaningless technicality, but it could affect someone in another state
 

USA

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The previous AG explicitly said non nh residents could carry on an NH permit. That was what kept people from needing to worry about the state police. The current ag has said better not until we figure out things. if i remember right the PA law that authorizes reciprocity agreements doesn't include non residents, so what the agreement itself says isn't that relevant. An agreement can't exceed it's statutory restrictions

saws it was updated 4/17/16 and has info about which states NR are no longer accepted. NH not included so seems good to me. I also spoke with a LO and they said it did not matter RES or NR, if the state has reciprocity it's good.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...ia.pdf&usg=AFQjCNE0Sl9KKKd1EA-zbSTL4MTMZTkJ7A
 

ProGun

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You can carry on a NH non-res in PA. The reason they didn't exclude NH non-res, is you need a carry permit from your home state to get a NH non-res P&R. All this nonsense with PA not honoring non-res permits started when some PA residents were carrying on FL CWP's. To stop that, PA one by one started eliminating reciprocity with NON-RESIDENT permits WHEN that state issues without requiring a permit from your home state.

I researched all this a while back and a PA gun forum had alot of info on it.

And FWIW, FL doesn't actually differentiate between res/non-res permits. They look identical and don't show an address. So, what probably matters is what state your DL is from.
 
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Anyone who is 18 and can legally own a firearm can transport that unloaded secured firearm in their vehicle in Pennsylvania. An unloaded handgun in a zippered pistol rug in the trunk is perfectly legal. PA has no registration of firearms or any type of permit/license required to just possess a firearm. PA law states that all Sheriffs shall issue but some will not to non-residents. many years back the Sheriff of Washington Co PA told me he would not even give me an application. I am a WV Resident. After explaining the law to him he said, "I don't care what it says. If you don't like it take me to court." It doesn't cost them anything so they do what they want.

If you ask the PA AG (Which I have done more than once) if PA will honor a non-resident permit from any state they will tell you to read the agreements. Even if you ask if they will honor a Non Resident permit from Virginia they will not state that. Again they will just tell you to read the agreement. They did renew agreements with VA, AZ, FL and ND. When they recently signed with MS they added that resident item also. The PA AG did this as at that time a PA resident could carry on one of those states Non-resident permit in PA. A PA court ruled in late 2013 that a PA Resident had to have a PA permit to carry in PA. You can read that ruling here: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/agopinions/PASuperiorCtPAResidentsMustHavePAPermit.pdf

With that ruling the PA resident carrying on a non resident permit didn't apply anymore and no more Reciprocity Agreements were updated. The New Hampshire agreement with PA was signed in 2004 and does not state a NH Resident permit only is honored in PA. You can read that signed agreement Here: https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/upl...l/FirearmsReciprocity/Signed_NH_Agreement.pdf

You can read all the other agreements PA has signed with other states Here: https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/Media_and_Resources/Firearm_Reciprocity_Agreements/
 
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Anyone who is 18 and can legally own a firearm can transport that unloaded secured firearm in their vehicle in Pennsylvania. An unloaded handgun in a zippered pistol rug in the trunk is perfectly legal. PA has no registration of firearms or any type of permit/license required to just possess a firearm. PA law states that all Sheriffs shall issue but some will not to non-residents. many years back the Sheriff of Washington Co PA told me he would not even give me an application. I am a WV Resident. After explaining the law to him he said, "I don't care what it says. If you don't like it take me to court." It doesn't cost them anything so they do what they want.

If you ask the PA AG (Which I have done more than once) if PA will honor a non-resident permit from any state they will tell you to read the agreements. Even if you ask if they will honor a Non Resident permit from Virginia they will not state that. Again they will just tell you to read the agreement. They did renew agreements with VA, AZ, FL and ND. When they recently signed with MS they added that resident item also. The PA AG did this as at that time a PA resident could carry on one of those states Non-resident permit in PA. A PA court ruled in late 2013 that a PA Resident had to have a PA permit to carry in PA. You can read that ruling here: http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/agopinions/PASuperiorCtPAResidentsMustHavePAPermit.pdf

With that ruling the PA resident carrying on a non resident permit didn't apply anymore and no more Reciprocity Agreements were updated. The New Hampshire agreement with PA was signed in 2004 and does not state a NH Resident permit only is honored in PA. You can read that signed agreement Here: https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/upl...l/FirearmsReciprocity/Signed_NH_Agreement.pdf

You can read all the other agreements PA has signed with other states Here: https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/Media_and_Resources/Firearm_Reciprocity_Agreements/

Did you bother to read the second paragraph of the NH agreement where it clearly states "citizens of the State of New Hampshire and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania"?

If you live in Massachusetts are you a citizen of New Hampshire?

Why are we re-hashing this same old tired argument?
 

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Did you bother to read the second paragraph of the NH agreement where it clearly states "citizens of the State of New Hampshire and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania"?

If you live in Massachusetts are you a citizen of New Hampshire?

Why are we re-hashing this same old tired argument?

I'm going to disagree with you, and agree with Gary. That may be the "purpose" of the agreement, but I'm comfortable that it doesn't preclude someone from outside of PA carrying on a NH non-res P&R license. That said, do what you're comfortable with.
 

kalash

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When I first moved to Philadelphia I used this site for NFA stuff. It does list all of the non-resident friendly counties as well.

http://www.pafoa.org/counties/
Made a rudimentary map based on that link.

Green = issues non-resident licences
Red = doesn't
White = unknown

PA_counties.jpg
 
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