oregon militia seizes building

Perfect example of why government is not qualified to manage these BLM lands.

Even the most incompetent pointy headed business person would figure out that they should not sell something worth $14.50 for $1.69. Ten seconds later they would have those grazing leases posted on eBay and let the market decide what the right price is.


garandman said:
Feds are charging them $1.69 per head per month.

Average private grazing fee is $14.50 a month.
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GomerPile said:
Perfect example of why government is not qualified to manage these BLM lands.

Even the most incompetent pointy headed business person would figure out that they should not sell something worth $14.50 for $1.69. Ten seconds later they would have those grazing leases posted on eBay and let the market decide what the right price is.
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That side steps the question of why/how the Fed should come to be a land owner in the first place.
 
Here's a great article by Paul Craig Roberts on the Hammonds' situation.

The Rule Of Law No Longer Exists In Western Civilization

The Hammonds refused to sell their ranch to the federal government which wanted to incorporate it into the Masher National Wildlife Refuge, triggering decades of persecution.

It's a difficult question. How do you make the decision to give up a relatively easy life (for most of us), stigmatize your family and perhaps die for an abstract legal principle when the majority of your fellow citizens will call you a terrorist for doing so?

So government tyranny grows in small, incremental steps.

And many of your fellow citizens willingly take the King's shilling as enthusiastic oppressors.
 
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When bummer came out here to run his gun agenda at Roseburg Oregon, enough of us protested to take him out of the spotlight. I am driving way the hell over there next week to protest hoping the showing of support helps bring our government back to its senses. The reason they walk on us is because people don't stand up. Ya ya'll might think it's foolish but when I look at the man in the mirror I know just who he is.
 
browncoat said:
It's ridiculous that they own so much of the west. So many things that wouldn't be an issue if that land were almost entirely in private hands (like it is in eastern states).
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If the government "owns" the land, then who actually owns it? I thought WE were the government?

I had a Facebook debate with a guy over this. My argument is that all land is stolen. Every piece of it in existence has been stolen by someone at some time in the recent or distant past.

Right now, these militia guys are the rightful owners of the land because they took it. Someone will be along shortly to take it back.

If you are strong enough to take it, it's yours for as long as you can hold it. That is a historical precedent from the dawn of time
 
In God We Trust said:
If the government "owns" the land, then who actually owns it? I thought WE were the government?

I had a Facebook debate with a guy over this. My argument is that all land is stolen. Every piece of it in existence has been stolen by someone at some time in the recent or distant past.

Right now, these militia guys are the rightful owners of the land because they took it. Someone will be along shortly to take it back.

If you are strong enough to take it, it's yours for as long as you can hold it. That is a historical precedent from the dawn of time
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Good point. 2 coworkers were talking about how much we are taxed. One said, "Quit bitching, it's not your money.

"Yes it is."
"Where is it?"
"The gov has it."
"Then it's their money."
 
jpk said:
it doesnt actually appear anyone took anything nor have they really done anything unlawful

A bunch of guys lawfully carrying firearms decided to stay at a publicly owned PUBLIC facility in the middle of no where

They havent threatened anyone

They havent taken any hostages

They havent prevented anyone else from walking up and using the facility

Where's the crime?.....REAL crime....not talking stupid infraction of some rule some unelected bureaucrat made
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Which is why the govt needs Pravda to run the propaganda campaign.

Remember, if you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If you have the law on your side, argue the law. If you have neither, scream, yell loudly and pound on the table. In this case, label your political enemies as racist, facist terrorists which is equivalent to latter part of the previous sentence.
 
I've yet to see more than a grand total of two firearms at this protest.

I thought these guys were "heavily armed."

Bicep fat don't count.

More proof the media is prone to histrionics and gross exaggeration
 
jpk said:
it doesnt actually appear anyone took anything nor have they really done anything unlawful

A bunch of guys lawfully carrying firearms decided to stay at a publicly owned PUBLIC facility in the middle of no where

They havent threatened anyone

They havent taken any hostages

They havent prevented anyone else from walking up and using the facility

Where's the crime?.....REAL crime....not talking stupid infraction of some rule some unelected bureaucrat made
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Where was the real crime that got the Hammonds 5 years in prison? It's so corrupt here don't expect our laws to hold up.
 
Apathesis said:
I've yet to see more than a grand total of two firearms at this protest.

I thought these guys were "heavily armed."

Bicep fat don't count.

More proof the media is prone to histrionics and gross exaggeration
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Yeah, I have yet to see a photo of this current event with actually armed militia. What I've seen is old photos from the Bundy Ranch and the Sugar Pine Mine events reused and relabelled hoping no one would notice.
 
namedpipes said:
It's a difference without a meaning.

They served the sentence. The heavier sentence demanded by the .gov was disproportionate to the crime.

This is nothing NEW to the .gov. There is someone currently serving a LIFE sentence for stealing nine video tapes. Another for stealing three golf clubs.

(shamelessly stolen from a friend's facebook feed)
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...on-mandatory-minimums/422433/?utm_source=SFFB



Please note, I find ALL those sentences to be absolutely ridiculous, including the 5 years for the backfires. The courts got all those cases so wrong it is disgusting.

Also from that article: In other words, since even worse miscarriages of justice have passed constitutional muster, this one must be OK too.
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They also failed to use comparable circumstances - the examples were for repeat offenders not otherwise law abiding family men
 
pastera said:
They also failed to use comparable circumstances - the examples were for repeat offenders not otherwise law abiding family men
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I couldn't tell if (for example) the three golf clubs were "the" third offense or if they creatively decided they constituted three separate offenses.

I realize that's a stretch but keep in mind the justice system we're talking about. We have judges sending rapists and murders home with a chiding to turn their life around, prisons releasing violent offenders cuz overcrowding, cats marrying dogs... Well, suffice to say I wasn't sure. [laugh]
 
I lost the link, but some Googling will turn up the original indictments and a lot more of the original story. Tough to screen through all the recent stuff that shows up first. After reading it, I'm wide open to the likelihood these guys ended up in the clink the first time because they did a lot more than burn out juniper on their own land. Doesn't change my belief that it is morally wrong to send them BACK for a longer sentence after they've already been released. Seems to me it's just a tortuous bit of semantics that makes this NOT double jeopardy - in addition to being morally reprehensible, it unquestionably violates the spirit of that particular Constitutional provision. I also don't doubt the BLM was and is trying to screw them out of that land by any and all means possible. That would actually explain some of the open hostility towards BLM you can see if you read the older material.

All that said, I still see this wildlife refuge 'takeover' ending peaceably. Maybe some arrests and definitely some hard feelings, but nobody's going to order batteries released on either side.
 
12507209_551902361631608_25867262354723427_n.jpg
 
I have no idea if these Occupy Oregon people have a good cause or a bad one, but it seems to me, either the Obama Propaganda Machine has been hard at work, or is busily taking notes on how to defeat the NEXT group opposing federal overreach.
 
This is a surprisingly complex situation.

The government has been harassing these people in an attempt to acquire their land since the 70s.
 
I was under the impression that some of the other militias are not supporting this issue due to the guy (Ammon Bundy) who is heading that group. Is this correct or incorrect. Thanks.
 
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Ill just leave this right here, This is kind of a big deal if true.



Story starts at 8mins 30secs
 
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Bfatz said:
Ill just leave this right here, This is kind of a big deal if true.



Story starts at 8mins 30secs
Click to expand...


Sorry plates don't come back registered to "undercover FBI agents"

They do issue "ghost plates" to some cops that come back as not on file.

Good undercover plates will come back registered to the undercover agents fake identity. The FBI would also know fairly fast that the plate had been run.

This story is bullshiite
 
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