OH NOES! ITS A NOTHER BULLET! LOCK IT DOWN!

[drgrant]

Key word here being MOST. So you're telling me in the same situation you'd risk your career, livelihood and ability to feed your family because of what happens "most" of the time?

Doubt it.

The admin's career could still be toast regardless of whether or not
a bullet was found. If an incident happens, heads will eventually
roll. I just think they could have taken a more pragmatic approach
to the issue than locking down the whole place.

I'd perhaps feel a bit differently if they got a bomb threat, or they found a device
that looked like a bomb, etc. That's being cautious. Telling everyone the
sky is falling because someone found a couple of bullets is just funny in and of
itself.

And Derek, c'mon now...I know we all like to vent about the strict laws here in Mass and all but let's be real...you don't see the need to keep bullets locked away from children? You either have no kids or are a deadbeat dad man, seriously. There comes a point in any arguement or stance where common sense must prevail to some degree, and I think it's pretty safe to say that when you liken a law that requires you to keep live ammunition away from children with Communist doctrine, you're so far past that point you don't even remember where you're supposed to be headed.

Sorry, I agree with Derek on this one... how is ammo any different than
bleach or household cleaners? We don't have "safe storage" laws for
that stuff (EG, most of the US outside of MA) and the world hasn't fallen
apart because of it. Parents use whatever "common sense" was in
their household to keep their kids safe from whatever dangerous things existed,
at least until the kids were old enough to know they would be punished if they
touched something they weren't allowed to. Do we really need a LAW for
that? Yes, making things illegal is the solution to everything.

As far as all the "Commie" talk, gotta love it. I mean, look where Capitalism has gotten us...we've gone from being the strongest nation in the modern world to piece-mealing huge sections of this country to the highest foreign bidder and outsourced millions of jobs that once fed American families to other countries, all in the name of profit.

The US still has one of the highest average standards of living on the
planet. Capitalism isn't all that bad. If people don't like it there are
plenty of other countries to emigrate to. I don't see a massive surge of
emigration... why... because the US doesn't suck as bad as the left seems
to suggest that it does. If it did then people would be migrating to all
these countries that supposedly have "better" systems than we do.

And IMO, the "commie" label is very appropriate for the government in
this state.... the government here only seeks to enlarge its own
size and control the lives of its citizens..... and cares very little about
what services actually get offered and whether or not the taxpayer is
getting everything possible for their dollar. If you don't see that here,
you cannot see the forest through the trees. We have one of the most
corrupt state level governments in the nation, and it shows. We are
very lucky that there are a few people that give a shit here and there
in our government... otherwise the state would be a LOT worse
off.

Just my 0.01...


-Mike

 

[Major Blood]

Any more slams to ANY member in here will result in this thread being locked my ME.

ENOUGH GENTLEMEN!

Mother Mod

Sorry Ma...I wasn't trying to slam anyone, just trying to make a point...I definitely didn't intentionally try to offend (or wish physical harm to) anyone, but I won't be blasted for having a different opinion either, and when attacked I tend to strike back.

 

[Lynne]

Defending one's opinion is allowed. Let's ALL leave name calling out of it, shall we? Thank you.

Back to our civil discussion,

Mother

 

[Lynne]

I've edited out or removed a few of the comments that were made.

 

[Admin]

Since Derek himself didn't seem offended and caught the gist of the point I was making

I was busy putting my sons to bed. You know the ones that have somehow managed to live through another day with all of my .223 and .45 ammo lying around.

You either have no kids or are a deadbeat dad man, seriously. There comes a point in any arguement or stance where common sense must prevail to some degree, and I think it's pretty safe to say that when you liken a law that requires you to keep live ammunition away from children with Communist doctrine, you're so far past that point you don't even remember where you're supposed to be headed.

It is a communist law. Why do so many other states not require it? Common sense? I and many other grew up around unlocked guns, ammo, black power, chemicals, etc... A law isn't going to protect your child, you are...

 

[Major Blood]

Great points all, Drgrant.

I'm not saying his career would be in jeaopardy because the bullets were found, I'm saying if he had done nothing, or less than he did as you seem to suggest he should have, THEN there was a shooting or related incident to follow, he'd have angry villagers with torches surrounding the school, and some of them would be the same folks saying he was overreacting.

And I'm not saying making things illegal is the answer to everything, but neither is the opposite, and in a land where the average person knows more about Paris Hilton than they do about their elected officials, I'm not so quick to trust the "common sense" factor when it comes to people raising their kids, ya know? And besides, no kid I know would attach the same "coolness" factor to a bottle of bleach than he would to a bullet...I mean, the choice between something you watch your mom clean the floor with every day and a bullet like the ones your heros used to blow away 200 villains in the latest movie isn't much of a choice at all for most kids...the type I know anyway.

As for the emmigration issue, there are tons of people who would emigrate from this country to experience the reality of what America has promised for so long....Canada just isn't as gung ho about the open border idea as we are! lol All joking aside, we may have the highest average standard of living, but we also have one of the widest disparities between the rich and the poor. When 90% of a Nations wealth is in the hands of maybe an elite 12% of the population, then "average" goes right out the window...or maybe to India, with all the tech jobs.

As for the Communist statement, I agree 100% percent with your assessment about the government of this state. But aren't Commies usually associate with "Liberal Antis"? If I'm not mistaken, this state has been under Republican rule for more than a dozen years...this is what I mean. Everybody talks about "gungrabbing liberals" when the most stringent and convoluted gun laws in the country were put forth on the Republicans' watch. And as far as govt. stepping over it's bounds and into the private lives of its' citizens, I guess the Patriot Act falls right in line with what are generally known as "conservative" ideals as well, eh?

This is what I mean when I mention sheep that think they are free...

Derek, I hope you didn't take offense to what I said, of course it is up to US to protect our kids, teach them right and wrong and about the dangers of things like bullets and guns, and I do. But you know what? I don't know if my neighbor does, I don't know for sure if ANYBODY else does and when what some idiot kid does can affect MY kids or puts MY kids in danger, I don't much care either. I'm all for freedom, but I know the value of conceding a battle to win a war. And if I had to lose the battle of being able to store bullets any way/where I wanted to ensure that I'd win the war of making it less likely that my kid is gonna get his eye shot out when one of his dimwit schoolmates decides to hit the bullet with a hammer, throw it into an open fire, or any other number of idiotic things kids do every day, then I'll be one battle losin' mofo.

 

[Admin]

No offense taken buddy.

 

[FITH]

And Derek, c'mon now...I know we all like to vent about the strict laws here in Mass and all but let's be real...you don't see the need to keep bullets locked away from children? You either have no kids or are a deadbeat dad man, seriously. There comes a point in any arguement or stance where common sense must prevail to some degree, and I think it's pretty safe to say that when you liken a law that requires you to keep live ammunition away from children with Communist doctrine, you're so far past that point you don't even remember where you're supposed to be headed.
"""" Major Blood""""
Now you do not need to start the finger pointing! These is no need to go Personal on Derek! Especially since you have a problem with labels. That is what you said????

 

[Erebus]

I don't know for sure if ANYBODY else does and when what some idiot kid does can affect MY kids or puts MY kids in danger, I don't much care either.

A law does nothing to insure this. It provides a penalty after the fact. You still don't know for sure what anybody else does. Teaching your kid how to identify an 'idiot kid' and stay away is still the best coarse of action. Assuming a law will work with someone that is irresponsible is in itself irresponsible.

If I'm not mistaken, this state has been under Republican rule for more than a dozen years...

If you count a Republican governor and an 88% Democrat legislature Republican rule.

I wanted to ensure that I'd win the war of making it less likely that my kid is gonna get his eye shot out when one of his dimwit schoolmates decides to hit the bullet with a hammer, throw it into an open fire, or any other number of idiotic things kids do every day, then I'll be one battle losin' mofo.

Spray paint cans, shaving creme, spray deodorant, pledge, air freshener spray, wd-40, starting fluid, cigarette lighters, gas grill tanks, gasoline cans, I could go on and on, are all far more likely to injure your child in the way you described than a bullet. Think of all the pressurized cans one has around their house, garage, shed, etc and their propensity to burst if handled in they way you described that bullet being handled, and ask if there should be a law demanding they all be locked up because of the idiot kid next door? The level of danger a bullet represents is far exceeded by many common household items. Yet no one demands a law that requires everyone lock up all those items.

 

[FITH]

Major
I guess you have not heard of the newest toy out there.. it's called a Bleach bomb... ya bleach some tin-foil..plastic bottle...oh ya tons of fun. ( BAN all of those ingred.)

 

[Jose]

If they were to publish a picture of the bullet, some kid might be tempted to print out a copy and threaten other chlidren with it, thus scarring them for life. Why, if he were to take a print-out to school, they'd have to lock down that school as well. And then some careless media outlet might publish a photo of the print-out, thus allowing more students to print copies of the copy, leading to an infinite regress and quite possibly then end of civilization.

Ken

So if you put the picture of a bullet on a copier and hit 1000 coipes, do you have a semi automatic assault copier?

 

[Jose]

On the other hand Derek- cash is not something that is supposed to be locked up and kept from kids.

Neither is ammunition. Oh wait, let me look up my address.....

 

[Jose]

And Derek, c'mon now...I know we all like to vent about the strict laws here in Mass and all but let's be real...you don't see the need to keep bullets locked away from children? You either have no kids or are a deadbeat dad man, seriously. There comes a point in any arguement or stance where common sense must prevail to some degree, and I think it's pretty safe to say that when you liken a law that requires you to keep live ammunition away from children with Communist doctrine, you're so far past that point you don't even remember where you're supposed to be headed.

As far as all the "Commie" talk, gotta love it. I mean, look where Capitalism has gotten us...we've gone from being the strongest nation in the modern world to piece-mealing huge sections of this country to the highest foreign bidder and outsourced millions of jobs that once fed American families to other countries, all in the name of profit.

And for the record, I'm not a Communist. I just love seeing people so caught up in what they THINK they're fighting for still using all these labels...Democracy vs. Communism, Liberal vs. Conservative, Patriot vs. Desenter, when in reality it's all about the Haves vs. the Have nots, like it's ALWAYS been, however cleverly veiled.

Just ask all those poor farmers in the breadbasket of this country who voted for Bush because he was a republican, conservative or "good ol' boy" just "like them" how those subsidies and aid packages are coming along...or ask the troops that this sham govt. so vocally implores us to "support" how many pieces of scrap metal they have to armor their own vehicles with, or about the great "support" they're getting when they come home in pieces, physically or mentally...

The sheep who thinks himself free is the easiest to lead...

Is this for real????

 

[TomH]

I think this is all blown way out of proportion. A bullet can't harm anyone without a gun present to fire it. And shooting with parents etc can be common enough that a stray bullet might end up in a pocket or a casing stuck on a shoe etc. Does it really call for an evacuation of a school? Don't you think that if someone really wanted to shoot up the school they'd just do it in the chaos of the evacuation??? And wouldn't be careless enough to leave a bullet around? Ridiculous. And having counselors come in for students having seen a bullet... that's just insane, I'm glad my taxes are going to good use! Hell, from what I hear many highschools used to have rifles clubs etc, and that kind of thing could happen easily from that. We're teaching kids to be scared of everything, they'll grow up to be completely useless to defend themselves. They'll be too programmed to think that everything is dangerous and that they need counseling for any kind of incident. In reality the situation in that school is exactly the same on any given day if they find a bullet or if they don't, no more or less dangerous.

-Tom

 

[drgrant]

THEN there was a shooting or related incident to follow, he'd have angry villagers with torches surrounding the school, and some of them would be the same folks saying he was overreacting.

My point was that the angry villagers will come no matter what- they
will always want to hold someone responsible, regardless of
circumstances.

I'm not so quick to trust the "common sense" factor when it comes to people raising their kids, ya know?

And who is supposed to determine whether parents have common sense
or not? The government?

And besides, no kid I know would attach the same "coolness" factor to a bottle of bleach than he would to a bullet

The kids of the age where "playing with ammo" would be a problem could
get themselves into trouble with just about anything. If your kid is
older than that, then locking stuff up may not be adequate. There
comes a point where coddling/shielding the kid from shit
is the wrong thing to do. whatever happened to the days where kids
generally didn't do certain things because they knew if they ever got caught
doing it that they'd be in deep shit with their parents? I remember growing up
I had a BB gun and a slingshot in defiance of my parent's wishes. Nobody
got injured by either one.... well, maybe I pissed off a squirrel or two with the
slingshot, firing nuts back at them....

All joking aside, we may have the highest average standard of living, but we also have one of the widest disparities between the rich and the poor. When 90% of a Nations wealth is in the hands of maybe an elite 12% of the population, then "average" goes right out the window...or maybe to India, with all the tech jobs.

Yes, so giving 90% of the wealth to the goverment so it can be
redistributed is the best thing to do. That's pretty
much the alternative to capitalism in a nutshell.

Again, if other countries are so much better, why aren't people
leaving? Nobody's been able to answer that question. Nobody
has been able to tell me why a dirt firmer that manages to come here
and make an honest living, and live in subsidized housing, receive
subsidized healthcare (despite the fact that the system is not
completely socialized, it still must pay for everyone.... so even
illegals can get urgent care medical attention in this country for
essentially NOTHING. ) Most of the people that I've met that
have bothered to become citizens here are eternally grateful that
they did so. Why? Because their home country sucks due to
shitty socialist or communist policy that has failed them and their
families miserably. The US even on its worst day is better than
where they came from. One of my customers was a legal
immigrant from Ghana... he was spending most of his time trying to
figure out how to get the rest of his family here with him. People
would not go through such measures if life here sucked.

Actually I know personally 6 people that have emigrated out... 2 of them
left because they were f***ing criminals who got caught stealing money
from the company they worked for. One of them left because he had
a price on his head (gambling debts with organized crime) and two of them
left because they had a really high paying job abroad. The last one
moved to Israel with his parents but they eventually moved back. (his
dad had a high paying job with a big company there. ) Otherwise I've
found personally (among rich and poor) that people like being in the
US. I've spent a lot of time doing work for a company that has
multinational connections.. and every person they've brought to the US to
work did NOT want to leave.

As for the Communist statement, I agree 100% percent with your assessment about the government of this state. But aren't Commies usually associate with "Liberal Antis"? If I'm not mistaken, this state has been under Republican rule for more than a dozen years...this is what I mean.

Republican in MA means "centrist democrat". Didn't you get the memo about
that? I know of democrat politicians in the southern and midwestern
states that are further to the right than the republicans in this
state. Further, this state has mostly been dominated by liberals
in the legislature, effectively mitigating any real effect of a republican
governor. (and mitt romney isn't all that good of a republican, either. )

Everybody talks about "gungrabbing liberals" when the most stringent and convoluted gun laws in the country were put forth on the Republicans' watch.

Actually most of them were drafted by the "gungrabbing liberals". The
only real exception is the 89 import ban which was signed into effect
by GHW Bush . The 86 machinegun ban was also signed into law
by Reagan, but it was tacked onto something which was at least somewhat
pro gun in intent.

If we look at all the other stuff, Clinton Crime bill, Brady, Lautenberg,
etc.... liberal forces were at play in designing all of those things. And I'm
also fairly sure they had a lot to do with GCA-68 as well, which is by far
the most sweeping, encompassing ball of garbage in terms of a federal
gun law this country has ever seen.

I'm not saying that the republican party is innocent.. they certainly aren't...
but if you want to know who the brainchildren are that come up with these
shitty laws to begin with, 98% of them all have a (D) next to their
name.

And as far as govt. stepping over it's bounds and into the private lives of its' citizens, I guess the Patriot Act falls right in line with what are generally known as "conservative" ideals as well, eh?

True "conservatives" do not agree with the premise of things like the
Patriot Act. Unfortunately our government is typically devoid of that
element at this point in time. And voting for dems to fix that is
like giving yourself chemotherapy to try to make a cold go away... it's a
dumb idea. They will simply turn around and stab you in the back when
you're not looking anyways. (eg, DMCA passed under clinton admin).

This is what I mean when I mention sheep that think they are free...

In MA none of us are free, because the sheep moonbat drones
are too busy voting for whoever will give them the biggest
handout. The election of Coupe Deval is a sign of this. So 55% (or
whatever it was) of the voting block that came out is pure moonbat.

But you know what? I don't know if my neighbor does, I don't know for sure if ANYBODY else does and when what some idiot kid does can affect MY kids or puts MY kids in danger, I don't much care either. I'm all for freedom, but I know the value of conceding a battle to win a war.

Yes, so you're willing to stomp on other people's freedoms just so you
can "feel good" at night? What if your neighbor simply decides to
disobey the law? How can it be enforced? What if the neighbors
kid breaks into the "secure container" and steals the ammo? What
use is having such a law if it is essentially unenforceable? Why do
people think that adding a dumbass law means that its mere existence
will cause an unlimited paladin shield bubble to be cast on
(women or children)???? Sorry, that only works in
WoW, not in real life. (And even in WOW it only works for awhile. )

The problem with shitty laws like safe storage is that once they get
passed, they open up a gateway- a slippery slope, for other shitty gun
laws to get passed. Some states have limited safe storage regs, which
don't really bother me. (EG, if you have a kid in your house, and he does
something dumb with the gun, you will get hung type deal) which I have
no problem with. Unfortunately in most cases when "safe storage" laws
get drafted they end up being a lot wider in scope than that- MA is
living proof of that.

And if I had to lose the battle of being able to store bullets any way/where I wanted to ensure that I'd win the war of making it less likely that my kid is gonna get his eye shot out when one of his dimwit schoolmates decides to hit the bullet with a hammer, throw it into an open fire, or any other number of idiotic things kids do every day, then I'll be one battle losin' mofo.

Uhh, yeah, and how often does that happen? Please... quote to me
the stat that illustrates how many kids are injured or killed by cartridges
which aren't loaded into firearms. I'm sure the number is just
staggering. Hell, the stat for the number of kids killed with
GUNS who are under the age of 14 is more than likely dwarfed by a bunch of
other things, like sporting activities, swimming pools, or riding a
bicycle. A lot of children probably get killed in cars as well. We should
ban all those things, you know, as they say... "If it will save one life...."


-Mike

 

[drgrant]

So if you put the picture of a bullet on a copier and hit 1000 coipes, do you have a semi automatic assault copier?

Jose, that would require an LTC-A in mass.... and that paper tray had better
not hold more than 10 sheets of paper at once, unless it was made before
Sept 13 1994!

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

Major
I guess you have not heard of the newest toy out there.. it's called a Bleach bomb... ya bleach some tin-foil..plastic bottle...oh ya tons of fun. ( BAN all of those ingred.)

I almost forgot about that one. I saw some video of some dumbass kid who got blinded when
one blew up in his face. Thankfully for his sake his vision is supposed to slowly return in a few
months.

They should also ban mentos and diet coke as well... heaven forbid a kid
would get shot in the eye with a stream of coke. I've heard wal mart
will now check ID if you try to buy mentos and coke at the same time.



-Mike

 

[NFD9]

Mike,
I have to tell you, That was an awesome reply.

"BRILLIANT!"

 

[otasan]

Clip vs Magazine, Bullet vs Cartridge

I hear what you're saying, but when the day comes and you have to make the call, I'm sure you'll err on the side of caution, like anybody that has a family to raise would, and risk looking like you over-reacted and keeping your job over being too soft, having it backfire in your face in the event of a shooting after the fact, and be quickly run out of your profession and maybe your freedom. Ideals are fine as points to be made in a conversation, but in real life the smart money is on those who cover their ass.

As far as the violence comment, yeah I'm sure plenty of you have been in worse spots than Bean Town, so have I. Alot of people do it every day as a matter of their daily lives though, not as a requirement for enlisting in the "Armed" Forces where you expect violence to be part of the equation.

And the whole "Clip vs. Magazine" debate is older than the both of us, just ask Remington Arms, Garand collectors or those who collect any number of other firearms that have blurred the line between what constitutes a clip and a magazine. On a side note, nitpicking about semantics, when you sure as hell knew what I meant, comes off as somewhat anal-retentive. I don't know you so I'm not saying that's you, just letting you know how it appears to the "end user". lol

The anti-gun leftist mainstream media are prone to use "clip" to describe a magazine, and "bullet" to describe a cartridge.

I, for one, do not care to sound like the anti-gun leftist mainstream media, so I'll use the proper terminology. A bullet is what hits the target. A clip is what one uses to secure a tie.

And on top of all this, we do not want to appear as ignorant as the anti-gun leftist mainstream media, do we?

So my G17 is NOT an "assault pistol" and my deer rifle is NOT a "sniperrifle."

 

[codenamepaul]

Alot of people do it every day as a matter of their daily lives though, not as a requirement for enlisting in the "Armed" Forces where you expect violence to be part of the equation.

A violent atmosphere is a violent atmosphere-regardless of how you got there.

And the whole "Clip vs. Magazine" debate is older than the both of us, just ask Remington Arms, Garand collectors or those who collect any number of other firearms that have blurred the line between what constitutes a clip and a magazine.

Never was a "debate" over what constitues what. Only one rifle was ever designed to take a clip-the M-1 Garand. Some bolt action rifles can utilize stripper clips, but have integral MAGAZINES that are filled by them.

Oh and by the way-I leave loaded firearms, ammo, unloaded firearms, disassembled firearms, etc. all over the house. Hell-if my basemant staircase fell down, I could rebuild it in full ammo cans. Rest assured, we are all breaking safe storage laws in one way or another. Safety is in the head alone, not in some device or some rule. It is a mindset-period. You mention the sheeple-looked in a mirror lately? Freedom comes with a price-and it ain't always taxes.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

A bullet can't harm anyone without a gun present to fire it. And shooting with parents etc can be common enough that a stray bullet might end up in a pocket or a casing stuck on a shoe etc. Does it really call for an evacuation of a school?

It's a simple equation for the administrator.

Evacuate when not needed - no problem, and most parents will thank you.

Have an incident years later and risk discovery that you did not evacuate when a stray .22 casing was found in the parking lot 5 years ago - goodbye career.

 

[TomH]

That is only because of this mass-hysteria of fearing anything and everything out there. We're perpetuating it with this sort of message. Some kids will get the idea that they could get out of school every day by just dropping a few casings around.. what then? Do you still evacuate every day?

 

[Neptune Cat]

I know we all like to vent about the strict laws here in Mass and all but let's be real...you don't see the need to keep bullets locked away from children? You either have no kids or are a deadbeat dad man, seriously.

I grew up in a home with ammunition lying around the house....and... as a matter of fact, sometimes a few loaded guns here and there. My father always told us about it too. "don't touch that one, It's loaded, so just leave it alone". My sister and I obeyed my father, because he and my mother taught us to obey them. Does that make him a deadbeat dad?

 

[Admin]

I grew up in a home with ammunition lying around the house....and... as a matter of fact, sometimes a few loaded guns here and there. My father always told us about it too. "don't touch that one, It's loaded, so just leave it alone". My sister and I obeyed my father, because he and my mother taught us to obey them. Does that make him a deadbeat dad?

That pretty much describes every household in the Midwest.

 

[Arioch]

I grew up in a home with ammunition lying around the house....and... as a matter of fact, sometimes a few loaded guns here and there. My father always told us about it too. "don't touch that one, It's loaded, so just leave it alone". My sister and I obeyed my father, because he and my mother taught us to obey them. Does that make him a deadbeat dad?

Hell, it sounds like our house with the exception of the loaded guns areond. (Some of those bullets might decide to fire on their own and seek out a cop to kill!!!) And I love Ambrose Bierce.

 

[kevin9]

I have to say this whole thread is yet another reason to homeschool. It's sad how "protective" general society expects their government to be.

Responsibility, it starts at home.

 

[Len-2A Training]

My folks hated guns, so no guns in the home growing up!

I am of an earlier generation (Baby Boomer).

However my late Father had a .30 cal bullet that he took home from WWII (he carried a BAR much of the time thru Europe). He had disassembled it to dump the powder, but it still has a live primer in it. As a youngster (guess early teens) he gave it to me and I'd fool with it (put bullet back on case and remove it). I never took it out of the house, but I also knew enough to not do anything stupid with it. Today mere possession without a permit is a felony IIRC.

In the second grade I found a jackknife and my Father let me keep it and I carried it as a TOOL every day to school. Nobody panicked and I never threatened anyone with it either.

In the fifth grade I recall finding spent .38Sp cases in the school yard (dirt behind the school). Randolph PD used to practice shooting back there I was told. This was in the late fifties. As boys wont to do, I pocketed a few cases and went back into school after recess. I didn't show them around and nobody panicked.

I also recall walking home from the high school once (~2 miles) and finding a shell casing in the gutter . . . in the pocket it went. No SWAT was called.

A few years ago, I recall seeing a rusted shell casing (Wolf no doubt), looked like 7.62 in the parking lot at an Ocean State Job Lot in Norwood. I thought of picking it up and dumping it in the rubbish barrel near the store and then said to myself "NO, leave it where it was". Reason was I didn't want my fingerprints on it, in case someone found it and panicked.

As a member of Mansfield F&G with a pack in, pack out rule, I oftentimes think of what "may" happen if they ever find shell casings (.22), shot up targets, or empty ammo boxes in my rubbish. Boy has society changed . . . and not for the better.

My Wife and I came back from a day at the range. Two days later, as I pulled my wallet out of my pocket, I found a .40S&W case in the pocket! It would be very easy for me to pickup a .22 case in a pants cuff, bottom of shoe, etc. Today this would cause panic in any public or school setting. It could also be what is sometimes occurring in today's schools. Today it's considered a crime and the person is very likely to get an arrest record out of such innocent behavior.

In most states, it is NO crime for a child to be in possession of ammo. Proper respect for things and training SHOULD be a parental responsibility. You can't protect children by passing laws and banning things. You have to instill safety in the child, not raise them in a cocoon.

We are a very sick society today, and the prognosis is even worse I'm afraid!

 

[Major Blood]

Again, I never said that laws solve problems, all I'm saying is in the current climate regarding shootings and schools, anybody that claims to have an interest in preservering our 2nd Amendment rights isn't doing that cause any good by acting as if a bullet in a school is nothing. Everybody likes to mention the media so much, and people have quotes from famous strategists all over their posts, but nobody seems to understand the value of using the media to our advantage. Nobody seems to have a grasp of the "conquer from within" strategy. By foaming at the mouth every time there is any action regarding firearms that you don't like, you're only proving their point that most gun-owners are a bunch of ignorant, belligerent yahoos.

Everything isn't black and white all the time, sometimes you have to find victory in the gray area. I really don't think the safe containment law, which has NO effect on how we enjoy our shooting sports/hobbies, is a battle worth losing the gun control war over. People speak of slippery slopes, well when a bullet is found in a school, where does the slope slide from there?

Judging from the replies, I take it nobody would have taken the same action at the school so I ask once again: Had it been your call, what would you have done? And in the event that a shooting followed, what then? How are you going to explain to some grieving mother that her kid got shot on your watch because you didn't think a bullet in the school was a reason for concern? I want to go home with you when you explain to your wife and kids that daddy lost his job today fighting for a pointless principle with no weight...how, even though he'd never want to actually do it, that the possibility that he MIGHT one day want to leave live ammunition strewn about the family house was more important than groceries or heat this month.

Again, ideals are great for online forums, but when your job is on the line, you're going to cover your ass just like everybody else.

And on another note, I know this might be hard to grasp, but listen close...

THIS IS 2007, NOT 1957. How your parents raised you means less than squat, it's a different world, a different country, a new day. They say in nature you adapt or die, so start adapting. They didn't have school shootings and the near plague levels of youthful violent offenders back then. There weren't as many guns on the street back then. There wasn't as much bulit up stress in so many sectors of society as there is now. People weren't walking into McDonalds or the Post Office and blowing everybody in sight away. I'm all for gun rights, but I don't have my head so far up the ass of the issue that I can't see how society has changed, and how our attitudes about certain things have to change with it. Don't speak to me of the "good ol' days" cuz all that means to me is that I wouldn't have been able to vote and would be open to getting legally lynched at any given time....yeah, those days were real good for me and mine. As in all things, its a matter of perspective, and when you can seriously say that a bullet found in a school in 2007 America, the home of the school shooting, the birthplace of the gangster flick, the most armed country in the world, is no cause for concern then you have lost any and all perspective you may have once had, my friends.

 

[sksguns]

do I here clucking?????? Is there a "Liberal" in here?

 

[JonJ]

do I here clucking?????? Is there a "Liberal" in here?

And what if there is? We don't exclude anyone and I'm enjoying the debate.