Non-residents: Legal info on bringing guns into Mass. for competition or hunting

[DickWanner]

A few details to clarify. First off, I'm not a Benelli guy, so I don't know it's specs off the top of my head. Basically to fall under this exemption, the shotgun cannot be "large capacity," meaning it has to hold 5 rounds or less in the tube/magazine. According to Wikipedia it's a 4+1, so you'd be good to go, unless Wikipedia is wrong.

Just to clarify the Supernova is a pump shotgun so by definition it cannot be large capacity. iefstath, you could put a tube extension on it if you want, though there's been some recent questions as to whether or not the tube itself becomes a LCFD at that point.

 

[GSG]

Just to clarify the Supernova is a pump shotgun so by definition it cannot be large capacity. iefstath, you could put a tube extension on it if you want, though there's been some recent questions as to whether or not the tube itself becomes a LCFD at that point.

I blended my terms a little. What you said is what I was thinking in my head, but somewhere between there and my fingers the words got muddled. I also firmly believe that tube extensions make a new large cap mag.

 

[iefstath]

I blended my terms a little. What you said is what I was thinking in my head, but somewhere between there and my fingers the words got muddled. I also firmly believe that tube extensions make a new large cap mag.

I fail to understand how a tube extension could be considered a LCFD...especially since its a tubular magazine and it would still not exceed 10 rounds...but even if it could. My understanding is Mags that have a capacity greater than 10, and that 5 applies to a semi auto shotgun for AWB purposes...

 

[GSG]

I fail to understand how a tube extension could be considered a LCFD...especially since its a tubular magazine and it would still not exceed 10 rounds...but even if it could. My understanding is Mags that have a capacity greater than 10, and that 5 applies to a semi auto shotgun for AWB purposes...

MGL 140-121 defines them:

“Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; or (ii) a large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994. The term “large capacity feeding device” shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with,.22 caliber ammunition.

The limit is 5 shells in Mass. on a shotgun magazine, even if it's fixed, unless it's pre-ban. We discussed it in this thread:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...un-Capacity-Questiions-in-Massachusetts/page2

But you don't have to worry about that with your gun.

 

[MasterMason]

Yes. As a non-resident you won't be able to buy ammo while you're there though, so you'd have to bring your own. The rifle just has to be unloaded and encased while travelling, I'd recommend a locked case in the trunk.

Wait though, what kind of carbine is this? If it's large capacity, then no, not without a Mass. LTC.

Thanks for the response...apparently Smith and Wesson sees it differently. Their response "The same laws that apply to hand guns apply to long guns." Oh well, same old story....

 

[GSG]

Thanks for the response...apparently Smith and Wesson sees it differently. Their response "The same laws that apply to hand guns apply to long guns." Oh well, same old story....

They're dead wrong. Bringing in handguns without a license or proper exemption is a felony.

 

[tikka308]

New York Resident - travel to MA with AR-15?

This website and forum have been very helpful. I am a New York state resident. My wife's family has 100 acres of land which they use for target shooting. I have traveled from New York to Massachussets with a bolt action 308. I do not have any permits (NY or MA) but am legally allowed to own the rifle in NY and thus have traveled to MA with my bolt action 308 under Mass General Laws Ch 140, Section 129C section p) which allows for "the carrying or possession of conventional rifles, shotguns, and ammunition therefor by nonresidents who meet the requirements for such carrying or possession in the state in which they reside.".

I began researching whether it would be legal to bring an post-ban, NY-compliant AR-15 into MA. It appears to be illegal due to it not being a "non-large capacity rifle". OK - fine. So I thought about getting a non-resident LTC. Unfortunately, an MA non-resident LTC requires me to have an LTC from my home state. I live in New York and, specifically, Westchester County, which for all intents and purposes will not issue an LTC.

Can someone confirm my logic? Practically speaking, is there a legal loophole? E.g. could I seek a PA or CT LTC (not technically my home state) and use that for my MA non-resident LTC?

Thanks.

John

 

[GSG]

Sorry for the delay in my response, I'm a busy boy lately and only log in to NES if my e-mail tells me I have a PM.

This website and forum have been very helpful.

It's a fantastic place to learn.

I am a New York state resident. My wife's family has 100 acres of land which they use for target shooting. I have traveled from New York to Massachussets with a bolt action 308. I do not have any permits (NY or MA) but am legally allowed to own the rifle in NY and thus have traveled to MA with my bolt action 308 under Mass General Laws Ch 140, Section 129C section p) which allows for "the carrying or possession of conventional rifles, shotguns, and ammunition therefor by nonresidents who meet the requirements for such carrying or possession in the state in which they reside.".

Correct, that is legal. Not well understood by many cops, but legal. Transport the gun out of sight to be safe, and locked up & unloaded to comply with MGL and the federal Gun Free School Zones Act. Just remember that even with 140-129C exemption, you can't bring mags that hold more than 10 rounds for that gun, assuming there are any for that make and model.

I began researching whether it would be legal to bring an post-ban, NY-compliant AR-15 into MA. It appears to be illegal due to it not being a "non-large capacity rifle". OK - fine.

Yes, it is illegal for an unlicensed non-resident to have a "large capacity" rifle, pistol, shotgun or mag in Mass.

So I thought about getting a non-resident LTC. Unfortunately, an MA non-resident LTC requires me to have an LTC from my home state. I live in New York and, specifically, Westchester County, which for all intents and purposes will not issue an LTC.

Disclaimer: I'm a Mass. law junkie (non-lawyer at that), and off the top of my head I only know generalities about NY law.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but NY is similar to Mass., where an LTC is needed to even possess a handgun, but many jurisdictions will restrict the license to prevent carrying it. Whether or not DCJIS will recognize that I don't know, I've never gone that route. I'm going to shoot a PM to Rob Boudrie, our NY law guru, to see if he'll chime in and clarify this for you. You might want to call the state to discuss that with someone who knows before flushing $100 on an LTC application.

Can someone confirm my logic? Practically speaking, is there a legal loophole? E.g. could I seek a PA or CT LTC (not technically my home state) and use that for my MA non-resident LTC?

Let me put it this way. If you read through my posts on here, you'll see that I've found some off the wall Hail Mary type legal smorgasbord loopholes in various places on Mass. law. If you get into it deep enough, there are some bizarre rabbit holes to follow in MGL. But there are none here, and believe me, I've done some looking.

Interestingly, MGL doesn't require that you have a home state LTC to get what is traditionally known as a Mass. Non-Resident LTC. However, the requirement is listed on the application, and I wouldn't bet on you winning that fight in a Mass. court. Also, when you mentioned a CT/PA non-res. LTC, I'm guessing you're referring to the "competition exemption" I've laid out earlier in the thread. That exemption only applies to handguns, and doesn't cover large capacity.

There is one trick you could pull to avoid most of this though. You say your inlaws use their land for target shooting, right? If one of them has a Mass. LTC, they could meet you at the NY border, take possession of the AR there and bring it into Mass. for you, then drive you back on the way out. It's not fantastic, they'd have to supervise you anytime you handled the gun, but it could be simpler than getting a Mass. license. The AR would still have to be in compliance with the Mass. Assault Weapons Ban.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

NY presents a case that is not typical - you are from a state that allows ownership of an "assault rifle" without a permit (outside NYC) but requires one for handguns. I suggest you write Attorney Jason Guida and the MA DCJIS and ask if your application for a non-resident LTC that you wish to obtain so you may possess the same guns that you do in NY when visiting MA would be considered. (Since you cannot acquire a handgun outside your home state) Attorney Guida will tell it like it is, and is the decision maker so you can consider what he tells you to be accurate. Answers obtained from persons other than him carry some "inaccuracy risk".

Westchester Country will issue a "Pistol Permit" (expect to wait months for it), however, as GSG correctly notes, the issuer may (and in Westchester, does) add restrictions to the license. The big difference is that outside of NYC, the entity that establishes restrictions is a the county level so someone in Rochester NY with a clean record will generally get an unrestricted permit, but someone from Westchester or Nassau County will generally not get a pistol permit without restrictions unless they are a person of privilege, power and influence.

 

[testosterone]

Interestingly, MGL doesn't require that you have a home state LTC to get what is traditionally known as a Mass. Non-Resident LTC. However, the requirement is listed on the application, and I wouldn't bet on you winning that fight in a Mass. court. Also, when you mentioned a CT/PA non-res. LTC, I'm guessing you're referring to the "competition exemption" I've laid out earlier in the thread. That exemption only applies to handguns, and doesn't cover large capacity.

i am totally bummed.

I was lead to believe, incorrectly apparently, that with a non-res ltc A i could travel to mass for competitions with my post ban large capacity hanguns.

It sounds like that is bad info...

 

[Kevlar]

i am totally bummed.

I was lead to believe, incorrectly apparently, that with a non-res ltc A i could travel to mass for competitions with my post ban large capacity hanguns.

It sounds like that is bad info...

With a MA NR LTC-A, you are permitted to possess large-capacity firearms, rendering the "competition exemption" irrelevant.



ETA: Did you mean to type "magazines" in place of "handguns"?

 

[testosterone]

With a MA NR LTC-A, you are permitted to possess large-capacity firearms, rendering the "competition exemption" irrelevant.



ETA: Did you mean to type "magazines" in place of "handguns"?

so, a spedific example.

lets say i have a m&p 9mm and a bunch of 17 round mags.

i want to come shoot an organized match in mass. with my m&p and my 17 rd mags, for example, in uspsa limited.

i was lead to believe that as long as I possessed a non res ltc A that this was ok,

 

[eisenhow]

so, a spedific example.

lets say i have a m&p 9mm and a bunch of 17 round mags.

i want to come shoot an organized match in mass. with my m&p and my 17 rd mags, for example, in uspsa limited.

i was lead to believe that as long as I possessed a non res ltc A that this was ok,

Nope, you're S.O.L. Get some 10-rounders and shoot production or limited-10.

 

[Kevlar]

i want to come shoot an organized match in mass. with my m&p and my 17 rd mags, for example, in uspsa limited.

The fact you are attending an organized match has no bearing.

The pistol is legal to possess with a LTC-A. The mags are illegal to possess, due to the AWB.

 

[steel monkey]

Hello,
I have a question i haven't stumbled upon here yet. Please advise if you could.
I'd like to "transport" small amount of handgun ammo (only, no firearms) from R.I to Mass.
In trunk legal? I only have my Blue card so far.

Thanks in advance

 

[GSG]

I'd like to "transport" small amount of handgun ammo (only, no firearms) from R.I to Mass.
In trunk legal?

It's a gray area, the intent of 140-129C seems to only allow unlicensed ammo possession when it's accompanied by a gun chambered for it. It's enforced that way too. Probably not worth the hassle.

 

[steel monkey]

Thanks for the reply

 

[cronuss]

Just to be 100% clear... I live in NH and own a Mosin Nagant. I don't have any firearm licenses whatsoever. I work in MA. Can I have my rifle in the trunk, unloaded, in my car when commuting to and from my job in MA?

Thanks.

 

[Kevlar]

Just to be 100% clear... I live in NH and own a Mosin Nagant. I don't have any firearm licenses whatsoever. I work in MA. Can I have my rifle in the trunk, unloaded, in my car when commuting to and from my job in MA?

Thanks.

Yes, providing your possession of such is legal in NH...

No person, other than a licensed dealer or one who has been issued a license to carry a pistol or revolver or an exempt person as hereinafter described, shall own or possess any firearm, rifle, shotgun or ammunition.....

>snip<

The provisions of this section shall not apply to the following exempted persons and uses:

>snip<

(h) Possession of rifles and shotguns and ammunition therefor by nonresidents traveling in or through the commonwealth, providing that any rifles or shotguns are unloaded and enclosed in a case;

>snip<

(p) .....the carrying or possession of conventional rifles, shotguns, and ammunition therefor by nonresidents who meet the requirements for such carrying or possession in the state in which they reside.

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section129C

 

[AirtechJr]

Bringing in firearm for Training Class - Non Resident

California Non-Resident here. I am planning on attending a CF Instructor Class in "Wooster" this November. I hold a California CCW permit and other states as well. Current California Carry Concealed Weapon and NRA Instructor.

Being perfectly honest, this thread scares the hell out of me. I have the option of using a rental G17, but I would rather use one or two of my own personal firearms. This is not a sanctioned competition, but it is a meeting of collectors (aren't we all) for the sake of furthering my firearms instructor education. The laws look positively vague to me. Like "Gotcha Law"

If anyone has an opinion on my situation please let me know. I certainly do not want to poke a sleeping rabid dog, I just want to attend a class, and NOT go to jail.

Now for a short rant:

I find it quite ironic as I walked through the Bunker Hill Museum last Monday, the very sacred land I was standing on, where Patriots who pledged "Our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honor" used guns to fight a Revolution and frame this country was now void of this exact same right guaranteed under the 2nd amendment. One of the very laws that King George was trying to enact on the Patriots, was now forced upon law abiding citizens by elitist politicians. Even worse, a totally harmless piece of brass casing could land someone in prison! I understand many other states have similar draconian laws, but America's Birthplace?

It just goes to show how utterly gormless liberal politicians are. Mass is one of the most beautiful states I have had the pleasure to see, but in all reality, I would rather take my chances living in California (it is bad enough) with the riots, earthquakes, fires and the actions of people that go with them, fully armed.

(I just returned from the MA area a few days ago, the entire time anxiety level was high due to my weapon not being at my side. Not that I ever felt threatened, but the same sort of feeling as when you reach for your wallet and it is not there).

Thanks for your help

 

[MisterHappy]

First, your other states' licenses are irrelevant.

Second, I'd contact the venue/organizer, and ask their opinion as to whether it's a legit "competition"...but John Law's opinion will be the one that matters.

For peace of mind, were I in your position, I'd use the loaner ( you're not going to ba carrying, anyways, while you're out of class)

Rant noted (and seconded!)

BTW....it's "WOOS-tah" but you came closer than a lot of people!

 

[AirtechJr]

Ok...Woos-tah

Got it. Don't they have a Beavah Bah?

I agree, just too unpredictable. Can I bring my range bag, loader, trigger assembly and Low Cap mags?

Thanks so much, dialing the phone to reserve the 17 now.

 

[Ultimate Shield]

Hi all. New guy here from NH.

I just moved to NH from Mass about 6 months ago. I have my NonRes permit and am a member of a local Gun Club that happens to be in Mass (only about 15min away, and membership doesn't burn a hole in my wallet), not to mention all my shooting buddy's live mostly in mass.

I just picked up a PTR-91 F. It's a newly made HK 91 clone. It has a flash hider/threaded barrel and what not that I couldn't buy as a Mass resident. My question is am I allowed to bring that rifle into Mass with my non res permit to go to my gun club and go target shooting with my buddy's? I'm not sure where it falls with the AW stuff, especially where they sell the same rifle in Mass but the only difference being with a welded on barrel Break.

 

[Kevlar]

...My question is am I allowed to bring that rifle into Mass with my non res permit to go to my gun club and go target shooting with my buddy's? I'm not sure where it falls with the AW stuff, especially where they sell the same rifle in Mass but the only difference being with a welded on barrel Break.

Welcome to NES!

No. The AWB applies to residents and non-residents alike.

The presence of the pistol grip and the threaded barrel/flash hider render it an "assault weapon", and as such, a felony to possess in MA.

 

[Ultimate Shield]

Thanks! And thank you for the quick reply.

Damn... well that's a major downer. If I were to permanently weld a barrel break on, essentially making it the same as the Mass compliant PTR-91 C model, would I then be able to bring it into Mass? or is that still a No Go?

 

[Kevlar]

...If I were to permanently weld a barrel break on, essentially making it the same as the Mass compliant PTR-91 C model, would I then be able to bring it into Mass?...

Yes, but be aware that the AWB also applies to magazines. Capacity cannot exceed 10 rounds, unless manufactured prior to 9/13/94.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

First, your other states' licenses are irrelevant.

Not totally irrelevant. In order to be covered by the exemption, one must be LEO or have a license to carry (in the MA sense of the word) from a state, district or territory that does not issue licenses to drug users or felons.

Second, I'd contact the venue/organizer, and ask their opinion as to whether it's a legit "competition"...but John Law's opinion will be the one that matters.

Any match organizer who knows what (s)he is doing will send out a confirmation letter.

What I do is stress that I do not provide legal advice, but send competitors a copy of the law and info sheet on the exemption printed out from the GOAL web site.

 

[cronuss]

removing post while I do my own research a bit (dont want to waste people's time)

 

[v42]

Wow, great sight and a lot of info.

Is there any provision to issue non-resident FIDs for non-residents?

I understand the whole thing about class A and Class B LTCs for non-residents, but I have not been able to find anything about Mass FIDs to nonresidents.

I am an out of state resident and might be visiting in the future and would like to bring a non-large capacity longarm with me to maybe do some target shooting and keep in the hotel rooms that I am staying in. Any transportation in the rental vehicle would be done in the trunk and unloaded.

Since I would not be hunting and not attending any matches or training none of the exemptions for those would apply to me.

So is there any provision for a non-resident FID, as I have been unable to find any info on this website or the various MA websites.

thanks

 

[Len-2A Training]

There is no such thing as a NR FID card.

For NRs, they have to be 21 yo to get anything and all they can get is a LTC. Sounds good but if all you want is OC/Mace, it's an expensive road to travel for that purpose.