Non-residents: Legal info on bringing guns into Mass. for competition or hunting

[NHGUNGUY]

Includes travel to and from activity location

Thanks Kevlar,

I was having a debate with someone about this today, and my interpretation is that I can travel to the activity location with a loaded pistol on my hip. The person I was debating this with believes I would need to have it locked and secured in a secure fashion while in transit to the activity location, and would only be able to carry it in a concealed manner while engaging in the "activity"

 

[06LemansC6]

You got a restricted non-res LTC? Did you just get for the first time within the past 8 months or so?

 

[NHGUNGUY]

You got a restricted non-res LTC? Did you just get for the first time within the past 8 months or so?

Yes to both questions. And I wasn't aware I was restricted until the license showed up in the mail.

 

[GSG]

I read through this thread and did not see this question answered. Can a non-resident with a valid temporary class A-LTC that is restricted to target and hunting carry a concealed weapon into the state while travelling to a range or hunting location?

As Kevlar pointed out, the answer is yes. If I were you I'd print out a copy of the application to keep somewhere safe for your recrods, and another to keep with you when travelling into Mass. That way if there's ever any question you have something to fall back on to avoid the $1,000-$10,000 fine for violation of a restriction.

From the NR application...

TARGET & HUNTING – restricts possession to the purpose of lawful recreational shooting or competition; for use in the lawful pursuit of game animals and birds; for personal protection in the home; and for the purpose of collecting (other than machine guns). Includes travel to and from activity location.

http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/Non-resident_20100126.pdf

I couldn't resist commenting on the part that I bolded here.

MGL 140-123 is clear, a non-resident LTC doesn't allow one to buy guns, ammo, or large capacity magazines from an FFL, and MGL 140-122B prevents individuals in MA from selling ammo to anyone, including licensed residents or non-residents. Also, at every point in 140-123 where "license to carry" is mentioned it refers to a resident LTC issued under MGL 140-131, not a non-resident LTC issued under MGL 140-131F, so in the 3rd paragraph of 140-123 where it states an LTC or FID is required to purchase any "feeding device" (i.e. magazine), I'd assume that it means that a non-resident LTC doesn't even let the holder buy a non-large capacity magazine from a Mass. FFL.

Here's my question: if a non-res. LTC only lets you buy certain gun parts from non-FFL's, how in the heck do they issue one for the purposes of collecting?

I was having a debate with someone about this today, and my interpretation is that I can travel to the activity location with a loaded pistol on my hip. The person I was debating this with believes I would need to have it locked and secured in a secure fashion while in transit to the activity location, and would only be able to carry it in a concealed manner while engaging in the "activity"

The issue is that Mass. has 351 different towns and cities who can issue LTC's, plus the CHSB issuing non-resident LTCs. Every single one of the 352 issuing athorities has a different definition of what each restriction means, so in some towns a "Target/hunting" LTC only allows you to carry while taking part in the activity, but in others you can carry while travelling to and from. If you have a Mass. LTC with any kind of restriction, resident or non-resident, get something in writing that tells you what the restrictions mean, and if there's any gray area, get something in writing that clears it up for you.

You don't want to find yourself facing massive fines and a revocation of an LTC (which you'd have to mention on every other LTC you apply for in most states for the rest of your life) over some clerical error or other confusion.

Yes to both questions. And I wasn't aware I was restricted until the license showed up in the mail.

Why am I not surprised?

 

[06LemansC6]

Yes to both questions. And I wasn't aware I was restricted until the license showed up in the mail.

I was just curious. As far as I know restrictions are only being placed on first time applicants. Mine was issued with restrictions: none, but it was a renewal.

 

[NHGUNGUY]

I was just curious. As far as I know restrictions are only being placed on first time applicants. Mine was issued with restrictions: none, but it was a renewal.

Thanks Lemans. I'm going to inquire about the reason for the restrictions in writing and see if they claim this as policy. I know another NH resident that was unrestricted for years, but ended up getting restricted when he recently renewed.

 

[06LemansC6]

I'm going to inquire about the reason for the restrictions in writing and see if they claim this as policy. I know another NH resident that was unrestricted for years, but ended up getting restricted when he recently renewed.

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for them to admit this as being policy. So far this is the very first report I've seen of a non-res renewal to receive a restricted LTC.

 

[NHGUNGUY]

GSG - Thanks for your insight. Much appreciated.

 

[NHGUNGUY]

I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for them to admit this as being policy. So far this is the very first report I've seen of a non-res renewal to receive a restricted LTC.

If you don't mind me asking, what were your justifications/reasons for the unrestricted license?

 

[SClaflin]

The person I was debating this with believes I would need to have it locked and secured in a secure fashion while in transit to the activity location, and would only be able to carry it in a concealed manner while engaging in the "activity"

That is not an irrational argument.

Here's my question: if a non-res. LTC only lets you buy certain gun parts from non-FFL's, how in the heck do they issue one for the purposes of collecting?

These standard restrictions and definitions were first drafted for resident LTC's. The FRB then began using them for non-resident LTC's and didn't strike the clause that you correctly suggest is inapplicable to non-residents.

 

[06LemansC6]

If you don't mind me asking, what were your justifications/reasons for the unrestricted license?

I'm sorry, but I've been asked this before. I wont share this information for two reasons. One is the CHSB reads this forum and I really don't wish to be identified. Two is I'm certain I will need to use the same reasons again in the future.

Best advice I can give is give detailed specific reasons for wanting 'restrictions: none'. Don't just make a general statement like 'ALP' or 'I want to protect myself'. You need more detail than that or they will restrict it. I read somewhere that a firearms instructor used the fact that he travels with firearms he uses for instruction and that makes him a would be target for thieves looking to steal his guns.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Best advice I can give is give detailed specific reasons for wanting 'restrictions: none'.

In general, when dealing with any department or agency that tends to issue restricted licenses:

• Tell the truth, make sure you can verify all claims you make
• Do not claim "work related" unless work will back you, as the logical response is "fine, let's see the letter from your employer authorizing you to be armed on the job".
• Provide SPECIFIC reasons to your case that are of the nature that anyone applying for a license cannot create solely through assertion. If anyone could use your reason, and it doesn't have "specific to you" details, it is less likely to be accepted.
• In a "red" jurisdiction, it's not about coming up with a reason through creative writing but providing actual, verifiable, facts.

Another thing one needs to try to understand is the concerns of the issuing agency. Some agencies want to "keep the numbers down" and are not generally keen on the concept of civilian carry. Some other agencies are willing to issue unrestricted, but don't feel comfortable issuing an unrestricted LTC to someone with no experience other than a 4 to 12 hour course taken to get the gun license.

The approach to a department that is concerned about shooting qualifications and experience will differ from that with one that is trying to keep the numbers down. Remember, the issuing official does not know you, and you have one chance to provide sufficient info about yourself to enable that person to make a decision regarding your suitability.

An advantage of an attorney review by Cohen or Langer is that they not only know the law, but they know what tends to be accepted, and what doesn't fly - and may even have experience dealing with the specific licensing authority you are applying to.

 

[NHGUNGUY]

No apologies necessary Lemans, I completely agree with your reasoning.

Thanks for the input Rob. I have done exactly what you referenced and have been 100% honest through the entire process and will continue to do so.

 

[GSG]

These standard restrictions and definitions were first drafted for resident LTC's. The FRB then began using them for non-resident LTC's and didn't strike the clause that you correctly suggest is inapplicable to non-residents.

It's just frustrating to see these things, like LTC's issued "For protection of life and property" when it's not legal to defend property in MA with lethal force (well, unless you're talking about livestock, in which case it is). If you read through the links in my sigline you'll see several examples of rules being written by people who have no idea what's going on, like EOPS approving FID's for felons because they read one half of the law and not the other.

An advantage of an attorney review by Cohen or Langer is that they not only know the law, but they know what tends to be accepted, and what doesn't fly - and may even have experience dealing with the specific licensing authority you are applying to.

This is something that is often overlooked IMO. People say "Hey, I'm not a criminal, I don't need a lawyer," not realizing this important point.

 

[GSG]

A link that is very important to read for anyone who plans to bring guns into Mass...some of the Mass. laws are too whacky to figure out on your own.

List of little-known gun law violations that will DQ a Mass. resident from an LTC

 

[tylanc]

So I've got a brand new AR and I'm not a member of a club, so I can't shoot it in RI. After perusing these threads, I ordered some beautiful new 10-rnd mags for it so I can go up to Attleboro to the nearest range that's open to the public.

Then, being paranoid, I read through the threads again and it seemed the 10 rounders would be fine ...... until I read the statute which says:

“Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device;

The operative phrase being: "capable of accepting".

So, that would certainly be my AR, and seemingly my Glock and my Sig as well (not that I could bring them into Mass anyway). Am I reading this right?

 

[tylanc]

"capable of accepting"

(duplicate post; sorry)

 

[GSG]

So I've got a brand new AR and I'm not a member of a club, so I can't shoot it in RI. After perusing these threads, I ordered some beautiful new 10-rnd mags for it so I can go up to Attleboro to the nearest range that's open to the public.

Then, being paranoid, I read through the threads again and it seemed the 10 rounders would be fine ...... until I read the statute which says:

“Large capacity weapon”, any firearm, rifle or shotgun: (i) that is semiautomatic with a fixed large capacity feeding device; (ii) that is semiautomatic and capable of accepting, or readily modifiable to accept, any detachable large capacity feeding device;

The operative phrase being: "capable of accepting".

So, that would certainly be my AR

You're correct, in your circumstances it wouldn't be legal to bring an AR into Mass.

An AR is a "large capacity weapon" under Mass. law, so you would need a Mass. non-resident LTC to possess one in MA. Some people here on NES disagree with me on the subject, so I'm posting a link below where you can see both sides of the argument.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-into-MA-or-CT-for-Competitive-Shooting-Match

Violation of that law is a felony.

So, that would certainly be my AR, and seemingly my Glock and my Sig as well (not that I could bring them into Mass anyway). Am I reading this right?

Handguns are a different matter. There are only two ways that you can legally bring handguns into Mass. as a non-resident; either by getting a non-res. LTC, or as a non-resident hunter (with a hunting license), a competition handgun shooter or collector attending an exhibition. That exemption also only applies if you have an LTC issued by a state who doesn't issue LTC's to people with felony or drug convictions (resident or non-resident permits from Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and the US Virgin Islands all meet this criteria).

In other words, you can't just bring handguns into Mass. for target shooting unless you have a non-resident LTC.

There's another problem. In order to get a Mass. non-resident LTC, you must have an LTC issued by the state that you live in.

http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/MIRCS Non-Resident LTC application - for website.pdf

Photocopy of Home State License to Carry Firearms: All applicants
must submit a photocopy (both sides if applicable) of their home state license to carry firearms. If your home state does not issue firearms licenses, please submit notarized documentation confirming this fact, along with a letter from their local Police Chief (see below).

From what I understand RI can be unpleasant about issuing LTC's, so that might trip you up.

There's another issue here as well. Even if you're bringing in handguns under the hunting/competing/collecting exemption found in MGL 140-131G, they still can't be "large capacity firearms." You said you have a Glock and a Sig. The only Glocks that aren't "large capacity firearms" are the 36 (compact slim .45 ACP) and the 37/38/39 (.45 GAP models). The Sig P225, P220 and P239 aren't considered "large capacity firearms" either, and there might be more but I'm not a Sig guy so there may be more models that I'm missing.

Basically you'd need to tell us what model handguns you have to know if they would be legal in some circumstances, but again, even if they were legal to bring in under the competition/hunting/collecting exemption, it would not be legal for you to bring them to Mass. for target practice.

 

[GSG]

Updated the OP as requested in this thread.

Also some helpful info on NR's buying guns and ammo was posted by LenS in another thread.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...rchasing-Ammo-or-Guns-in-MA-(even-with-NR-LTC)

 

[iefstath]

OK, according to this thread, a non-resident who possessed no MA license but posesses a license in their home state would be allowed to keep an unloaded, locked, Benelli Supernova in their trunk even if they were going to spend multiple days in MA and not just passing through?

 

[GSG]

OK, according to this thread, a non-resident who possessed no MA license but posesses a license in their home state would be allowed to keep an unloaded, locked, Benelli Supernova in their trunk even if they were going to spend multiple days in MA and not just passing through?

Yes.

A few details to clarify. First off, I'm not a Benelli guy, so I don't know it's specs off the top of my head. Basically to fall under this exemption, the shotgun cannot be "large capacity," meaning it has to hold 5 rounds or less in the tube/magazine. According to Wikipedia it's a 4+1, so you'd be good to go, unless Wikipedia is wrong.

The law doesn't require that you have a home state license, just that you be allowed to possess it in your home state. You may want to print out a copy of your home state laws to show that it's legal for you to have it there. You also shouldn't expect any Mass. cops to be familiar with the non-resident gun laws, so print out the Mass. laws and prepare to do some explaining.

According to MGL 140-129C(h), the gun must be encased and unloaded when transported, not just locked. So a trigger lock isn't enough, it must be in a case if you're travelling with it, and the case itself doesn't have to be locked, although it's a good idea to put the minds of any LEO's at ease.

Also, the gun doesn't have to be unloaded the whole time you're in Mass., just when travelling. This means if you're a non-resident in Mass., you can have FID compliant rifles/shotguns loaded for defense of a house, hotel room, etc., just like a licensed Mass. resident can (MGL 140-129C(p) covers that). Storage laws must be complied with when it's not under your direct control, but even when stored it can be loaded, as long as you're not actually travelling with it. Most other Mass. gun laws apply, but storage and non-resdent specific transport laws (they're different for residents and non-residents) are the only two you'd need to know in most circumstances.

Make sense?

 

[iefstath]

This makes sense, and is what I was thinking. It's a bit reassuring that I'm not the only one interpreting it this way. It is indeed 4 +1 which is why it will not be getting an extension, looks like its going to get a bandoleer sling loaded up, wrapped in this, locked in a case that will be bolted in the girlfriends trunk and good to go. Maybe I'll laminate a copy of the law and through it in the case too...JIC.

 

[Jbarila]

Talking about confusing. how do they ever even convict anyone.
Now Say someone wants to come to mass to participate in the USPSA championship. They can bring their pistols and ammo as long as they are locked per Mass laws, they have a copy of the exemtion law and a flyer or application copy from the match, they cannot carry but they can participate in the match correct?
Now what about greater that 10 round mags, the law applies where they must have an out of state permit?

 

[GSG]

This makes sense, and is what I was thinking. It's a bit reassuring that I'm not the only one interpreting it this way. It is indeed 4 +1 which is why it will not be getting an extension, looks like its going to get a bandoleer sling loaded up, wrapped in this, locked in a case that will be bolted in the girlfriends trunk and good to go. Maybe I'll laminate a copy of the law and through it in the case too...JIC.

You should be good to go. If you want to be really safe, I'd keep the bandolier unloaded when in the vehicle. Copies of the law with the appropriate sections highlighted is a very good idea too. In addition to 140-129C, I suggest you print out 269-10, since 269-10(a) and 269-10(h)(1) both specifically say that people in compliance with 129C are exempt from the criminal penalties for possessing a rifle or shotgun in the home or vehicle.

Now Say someone wants to come to mass to participate in the USPSA championship. They can bring their pistols and ammo as long as they are locked per Mass laws, they have a copy of the exemtion law and a flyer or application copy from the match, they cannot carry but they can participate in the match correct?

They must have a license issued by a state that doesn't issue to people with felony or drug convictions. There's very few state licenses that meet both of those requirements, so you'd have to tell us which state(s) they're licensed in. With handguns, being able to possess it in your home state is not enough to bring it into Mass., you must have a license that meets those specific requirements.

The law doesn't require that the gun be locked up and unloaded, but considering how obscure this exemption is, I think you'd have to be pretty crazy to carry it on your person. Keep it unloaded, locked in a case and out of sight.

Have copies of the law (MGL 140-131G and MGL 269-10(a) apply here), the match flyer, a copy of the license that brings you into compliance with the law and be prepared to explain your compliance to a police officer.

Now what about greater that 10 round mags, the law applies where they must have an out of state permit?

In order to lawfully possess mags that hold more than 10 rounds (known as "large capacity" in Mass. legal lingo) or large capacity firearms/handguns, you must have a Mass. LTC.

I'd recommend that even if you fall completely within the competition exemption, if you plan on regularly coming into Massachusetts with guns, get the non-resident LTC. It's expensive but it will remove any doubt from the equation if you're stopped by a cop, and will increase the number of guns that you can lawfully possess when in Mass. With a non-res. LTC you can also possess mags that hold more than 10 rounds, as long as they're pre-ban.

 

[bostonasphalt2]

You're correct, in your circumstances it wouldn't be legal to bring an AR into Mass.

An AR is a "large capacity weapon" under Mass. law, so you would need a Mass. non-resident LTC to possess one in MA. Some people here on NES disagree with me on the subject, so I'm posting a link below where you can see both sides of the argument.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...-into-MA-or-CT-for-Competitive-Shooting-Match

Violation of that law is a felony.



Handguns are a different matter. There are only two ways that you can legally bring handguns into Mass. as a non-resident; either by getting a non-res. LTC, or as a non-resident hunter (with a hunting license), a competition handgun shooter or collector attending an exhibition. That exemption also only applies if you have an LTC issued by a state who doesn't issue LTC's to people with felony or drug convictions (resident or non-resident permits from Connecticut, Pennsylvania, and the US Virgin Islands all meet this criteria).

In other words, you can't just bring handguns into Mass. for target shooting unless you have a non-resident LTC.

There's another problem. In order to get a Mass. non-resident LTC, you must have an LTC issued by the state that you live in.

http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/MIRCS Non-Resident LTC application - for website.pdf



From what I understand RI can be unpleasant about issuing LTC's, so that might trip you up.

There's another issue here as well. Even if you're bringing in handguns under the hunting/competing/collecting exemption found in MGL 140-131G, they still can't be "large capacity firearms." You said you have a Glock and a Sig. The only Glocks that aren't "large capacity firearms" are the 36 (compact slim .45 ACP) and the 37/38/39 (.45 GAP models). The Sig P225, P220 and P239 aren't considered "large capacity firearms" either, and there might be more but I'm not a Sig guy so there may be more models that I'm missing.

Basically you'd need to tell us what model handguns you have to know if they would be legal in some circumstances, but again, even if they were legal to bring in under the competition/hunting/collecting exemption, it would not be legal for you to bring them to Mass. for target practice.

Glock 29 is non large cap also

 

[GSG]

Glock 29 is non large cap also

The 26, 27, 29, 30, 31, 32, and 33 aren't on the large cap roster, but were all specifically designed to use large cap mags. I think you'd be hard pressed to argue that they aren't large capacity. It's a fringe issue though in this case.

 

[Jbarila]

Thanks, GSG,
They are licensed in Louisianna for CCW. There a CCW is difficult to get and requires backgrond checks etc.
Open carry I think you just need to be a resident.

 

[GSG]

Thanks, GSG,
They are licensed in Louisianna for CCW. There a CCW is difficult to get and requires backgrond checks etc.
Open carry I think you just need to be a resident.

No problem.

A Louisiana CCW will not cover someone for the competition exemption in Mass. Neither Louisiana Revised Statutes 40:1379.3 or the CCW application packet prohibit people with drug convictions from obtaining the Louisiana permit. Because of this the specific wording of MGL 140-131G is not met.

If the individual wishes to be covered legally to compete in Mass. with handguns, they should apply for a permit from a state that doesn't issue to felons or people with drug convictions. Pennsylvania is one of these states, their permit is very cheap and can be obtained through the mail. This link has info on how to apply in PA.

 

[MasterMason]

Hate to ask a question that may have been answered BUT....I am a CT resident with a CT license to carry. As long as I meet the storage requirement can I travel into MA with my 9mm carbine in order to just go do some target shooting at smith and wesson? I think I mam reading this correctly in that I should be able to bring a rifle into MA??

 

[GSG]

Hate to ask a question that may have been answered BUT....I am a CT resident with a CT license to carry. As long as I meet the storage requirement can I travel into MA with my 9mm carbine in order to just go do some target shooting at smith and wesson? I think I mam reading this correctly in that I should be able to bring a rifle into MA??

Yes. As a non-resident you won't be able to buy ammo while you're there though, so you'd have to bring your own. The rifle just has to be unloaded and encased while travelling, I'd recommend a locked case in the trunk.

Wait though, what kind of carbine is this? If it's large capacity, then no, not without a Mass. LTC.