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NH Anti-gun bills in the Senate...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by design, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. design

    design NES Member

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    I just found out that yesterday there were some articles written by a 'pro-2a' attorney in favor of this bill? "....As a Pro-2A activist, I do not feel the least bit threatened by this bill. The elderly need special protection because they are particularly vulnerable. …"

    If there was actual abuse the correct thing to do would not be take the firearms, but to actually charge the alleged perpetrator with a crime and have a trial, however this bill does not due that. Instead, it allows the firearms to be seized before the person is even arrested or before a judge has even reviewed the case.

    There is a significant amount of effort by a small fringe of well connected lobbyists to pass this bill. All we need your help to stop it. Call the Governor and then call a friend and ask him/her to do the same.

    As JPK stated:
    No warrant
    No due process
    No process for getting them returned
    No storage requirements
    No protections whatsoever.
     

  2. jpk

    jpk

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    Shocked that the concord monitor even allowed a pro liberty/pro constitution letter to editor be published

    Our Turn: Constitutional protections go up in smoke

    WRT HR 696

     
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  3. jpk

    jpk

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    gencourt.state.nh.us site is down hard

    No ping......

    I guess thats one way for dems to try to sneak shit through and prevent folks from contacting them/complaining about the BS they're pushing
     
  4. Racenet

    Racenet NES Member

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    I bet they smashed it with a hammer. [devil]
     
  5. jpk

    jpk

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    I dont mean to put on the tin foil but I wouldnt be surprised if there were mysterious changes to things inserted into legislation.....

    gencourt site still not pingable.....
     
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  6. edmorseiii

    edmorseiii Navy Veteran NES Member

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    Wiped it, like with a rag.
     
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  7. jpk

    jpk

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    Was Hillary or Platte River Networks anywhere near Concord today?

    Edit.....geoip info suggests it could be hosted in albany ny or michigan.........
     
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  8. KBCraig

    KBCraig NES Member

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    Their internet was out. I got an email from General Court to my secondary address this morning.
     
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  9. Coyote33

    Coyote33

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    That website seems to be working now.
     
  10. Boston4567

    Boston4567 NES Member

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    They host their own email and web servers, and they do it on-premises? What is this, 2003? Grow up and move to Office 365 and AWS.

    How would they stop a DDoS attack?
     
  11. timbo

    timbo Navy Veteran NES Member

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    Was this from the Women's Defense League? I saw this somewhere but I was on vacation so couldn't really follow up on it. If it is, my support for the WDL went down the commode.
     
  12. design

    design NES Member

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    Granite Grok posted the following opinion pieces.

    "...As a Pro-2A activist, I do not feel the least bit threatened by this bill. The elderly need special protection because they are particularly vulnerable. It is easy to distinguish between unlawful use of a deadly weapon and mere possession. Bad guys unlawfully use deadly weapons, good guys do not use deadly weapons to abuse, exploit or neglect the elderly, or anyone else for that matter.

    HB 696 does not violate our Constitutional rights concerning search and seizure because it requires that the deadly weapon “be involved” in the abuse, exploitation, or neglect...."

    Should the Police Prevent Abuse, Neglect, or Exploitation of the Elderly? - Granite Grok

    "....The agreement made with the Governor’s office, the elderly advocates and the two gun groups who worked to remove the “gun grab” and make it an actual bill to protect the elders is well known
    Those of us who worked for more than six months to help craft it have kept our word; now it’s the Governor turn."

    HB696: Who You Gonna Believe? - Granite Grok
    [bolding mine]…
    #NotMyViews
    #NotMyStatements
     
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  13. Nick Fury

    Nick Fury

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    It really does not matter how the bill is written as we saw in Middlebury, Vt. when they ERPOed the guns from some little punks uncle because he threatened to steal them. Why? Because gunz that’s why...

    Only fools and gun grabbers don’t see or care about the abuse this bill will bring.
     
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  14. Boston4567

    Boston4567 NES Member

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    I think we haven't been looking at the final HB696 conference committee bill. Unless I'm misunderstanding, there are no references to firearms whatsoever in the final bill:

    http://gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_status/billText.aspx?id=14&txtFormat=html&sy=2019

    The single provision that's still there is "[c]onfiscating any deadly weapons involved in the alleged abuse, exploitation or neglect." Note - it doesn't allow them to confiscate all your guns, just the ones specifically used to commit these crimes. Does anyone here honestly disagree with this?

    I think we won this one already. I don't see any problem with this bill...
     
  15. 42!

    42! NES Life Member NES Member

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    If they are taking one gun they will take them all. You seriously think they would only take one?

    This whole thing seems redundant. There are already ROs that will allow the police to take all weapons, why do we need more?
     
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  16. Kevin_NH

    Kevin_NH NES Member

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    If a "deadly weapon" is truly "involved in the alleged abuse", police can already confiscate it (subject to the constraints of the law), so why is there a need to give police additional new powers of confiscation?
     
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  17. strangenh

    strangenh NES Member

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    Exactly, and this new power is based on probable cause, without a warrant. If it were about exigent circumstances, the officer can already temporarily seize a weapon for officer (or bystander) safety. If it's about an abuse where a specific weapon is alleged to be part of it, then a warrant should certainly be used. Creating a legal situation where an officer SHALL seize things based on allegation only, with no warrant, is over the line.
     
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  18. edmorseiii

    edmorseiii Navy Veteran NES Member

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    And very, very, dangerous to everyone involved.
     
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  19. Boston4567

    Boston4567 NES Member

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    If you commit a crime, the police have a right to confiscate evidence, including implements used in that crime. If they have to enter your home, they would still have to get a warrant. Nothing in the bill purports to overrule the constitutional requirement to get a warrant.

    I agree that the provision is redundant, but not in a way that's a danger to our rights. The bill as currently constituted is not a gun bill and will have no meaningful impact on 2A rights in the real world or even in theory. If I were lobbying the legislature I would lobby against this provision, but now we're at a point where it's going to the governor and there's no longer the possibility of amending it.

    If 2A activists demand Sununu veto it and he does, we've needlessly politically weakened our only bulwark against waiting periods, UBC, red flag, AW bans, etc. by making him veto a popular, feel-good bill. And he's up for election next year. If we demand he veto it and he doesn't, maybe he starts to think 2A activists are just crazy people who don't matter, especially if he wins re-election anyway. And because of that, maybe he doesn't listen to us next time.

    Take the long view here, this bill isn't something that affects 2A rights.
     
  20. strangenh

    strangenh NES Member

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    I entirely disagree about the bill not purporting to authorize certain actions without a warrant that would have otherwise required a warrant. I also agree it's not a "gun bill" but that doesn't make it a good bill, either.
     
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  21. edmorseiii

    edmorseiii Navy Veteran NES Member

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    Even if it is not a gun bill, I don't vague garbage legislation jamming up every day life. This is why I moved to NH, let's not let this shit go, guns or not.
     
  22. SERE

    SERE NES Life Member NES Member

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    You are missing the beginning of that sentence that covers their collective asses:

    that officer shall use all means within reason to prevent further abuse, exploitation, or neglect including, but not limited to:

    (a) Confiscating any deadly weapons involved in the alleged abuse, exploitation or neglect.

    You have a safe door full of Glocks. Which 'black pistol' does the officer take?

    It is legislative creep.
     
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  23. strangenh

    strangenh NES Member

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    Quite so. The first place to stop legislation with unconstitutional provisions is voting it down at the legislative origin. The second is at the veto. The third is at the courts. The fact the courts could interpret it to require a warrant, doesn't justify waiting until it gets to that point.
     
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  24. xtry51

    xtry51

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    This is a terrible law and definitely should be pressed to Sununu as a veto.
     
  25. jpk

    jpk

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    How exactly does a cop do that.....and without a search warrant......they are just going to take everything you have

    Bill fails to provide due process
    Fails to provide protections/process for handling your private property
    Fails to provide a process for getting your private property back

    What the f*** is "Neglect" and why/how is it lumped in with confiscation of weapons.

    Lets move onto other disasterous portions of the bill.....

    as per below the state of NH is going to accept on its face any similar order from any other state, territory or tribe.......

    yea....read that again......you read it right

    With absolutely no regard for whether or not this other entity/tribe/other had a legal/lawful/sane process that included protections of the accused rights let alone rules for evidence and a raft of other protections......NH is just going to take the word of this other entity?

    The bill is badly written......Gov should veto it with a statement telling them to come back with a clean bill next year and he'll support it

    This is what you get when paid lobbyists are involved in the rancid sausage making process

     
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  26. jpk

    jpk

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    Every single republican in the senate and house that voted, voted against the final bill

    What does that tell you?

    Is Sununu really going to go against his entire caucus and expect to get re-elected next year
     
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  27. Coyote33

    Coyote33

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    Someone needs to tell him this. No, even if you think he "knows it", he needs to "hear it"!
     
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  28. KBCraig

    KBCraig NES Member

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    Evan and Susan need to learn our mantra: we don't improve bad bills, we kill them!

    They think they improved this bill, so now SO is falling back on her tribalism and accusing JR of being against a bill to protect elders, and also accusing him of having written anti-gun bills in the past.

    The internecine warfare gets old, but I know which side throws all the rocks.
     
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  29. jpk

    jpk

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    Keep calling his office and writing email outlining that the optics of going against his entire caucus over a badly written bill will not bode well for next election
     
  30. design

    design NES Member

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    It seems some of the 'gun groups' are trying to actually pass this bill.
    Which side are they on?
     

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