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NH Anti-gun bills in the Senate...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by design, Apr 20, 2019.

  1. KBCraig

    KBCraig NES Member

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    Even week to week, the House doesn't "adjourn", it goes into recess. The first vote at the first of every session day is to adjourn the previous session day and begin a new one.
     

  2. jpk

    jpk

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    Yea, I really hope Gov Sununu doesnt make the same political miscalculations Ayotte, Brown and his brother Frmr Sen Sununu did by screwing the base......it will have a chilling effect in the next election as people will choose not to cast a vote for him or possibly not show up to vote at all and have down ticket impacts
     
  3. jpk

    jpk

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    House voted on conference committee report/amendment on 564 (schools) and 696 (red flag) today.

    It looks like 100% or thereabout of Republicans voted AGAINST both and a few dems opposed it as well............that means that the house doesnt have the votes to over ride a veto from Sununu

    It also means that if Sununu signs/allows the bills to become law that he will be going against his entire party........the optics of such a mistake and almost certain consequences at the ballot box would be ugly....

    Now is the time to write/call Gov Sununu and urge him again to veto these bills and remind him that the GOP in the house has voted against these bills as a block.......and that going against the party and base would be a mistake
     
  4. jpk

    jpk

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    HB 109 had a vote 6/13 in house and the house adopted the Senate amendment......no update beyond that.......

    HB 514 had a vote 6/13 and house adopted the Senate amendment......bill is now enrolled in house and senate......on to Sec of State and Governor......

    Both bills have a roll call vote and ALL republicans and a handful of dems opposed both.......Dems dont have the votes to over ride a veto by Sununu on either bill

    You know the drill......ringy dingy the gov........
     
  5. MaverickNH

    MaverickNH NES Member

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    I call so often I'm starting to get "Oh hello Mr J, how are you today?" I might be checking the same box but it's a big black check mark. Polite messages that I've supported generations of Sununu's who support gun rights ;-)
     
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  6. Coyote33

    Coyote33

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    Has anybody, ANYBODY, spoken to, or heard from the Governor on ANY of these yet? Surely there must be someone who knows someone. New Hampshire is NOT that big of a state to totally seclude the Governor. There must be someone who has access to him or his cohorts, to get a feel for what is going on.


    EDIT:
    Sorry, just found this back a page:

     
  7. design

    design NES Member

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    GOA had a great alert today:

    The Pro-Gun Community is Totally Opposed to HB 696!
    Dear Firearm owner,

    Make no mistake, contrary to reports on social media, GOA and GONH (the NRA-state affiliate) both agree that HB 696, the elderly red flag gun confiscation bill, should be vetoed.

    We are cautiously optimistic that Governor Sununu will veto the bill and the veto will be sustained.

    [​IMG]
    We are united in opposition to HB 696, because, among other things, the proposed Section 173-D:11 violates the Fourth Amendment by bypassing the requirement to obtain a search warrant. Please click here for all the details on why HB 696 is anti-gun.

    Furthermore, if the sponsors of HB 696 truly wish to protect the elderly, they should familiarize themselves with R.S.A. 631:9 Financial Exploitation of an Elderly, Disabled, or Impaired Adult. HB 696 is not even needed.

    So when you contact Governor Sununu, ask him to demand that the sponsors make public information on their contacts with the gun- hating Giffords Organization.

    It would do well to remind Governor Sununu that he has said, many times, that New Hampshire gun laws are fine and don’t need changing. This is the exact same position taken by both of his Democrat predecessors.

    You can call Governor Sununu at (603) 271-2121.

    Please let Governor Sununu know that you support GOA, and you are completely opposed to the amended version of HB 696 and you expect him to veto the bill.

    In liberty,

    Alan M. Rice
    New Hampshire Field Representative
    Gun Owners of America

    P.S. Please urge Governor Sununu to veto all gun control. And if you’ve let your membership lapse, make sure to renew your membership in Gun Owners of America today for only $20!
     
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  8. Coyote33

    Coyote33

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    It should be mentioned that passing this bill would put "elders in peril".
     
  9. design

    design NES Member

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    For those on FB and friends with the Honorable John Burt, there is an interesting discussion on his page about "DJ Bettencourt made the agreement for the governor. I stand by the agreement between all except NHFC" Apparently, there was a deal to pass this bill...

    [Edit: I have in on good authority, that neither NHFC nor GOA were at any of these meetings. Who was there, I cannot comment as I was not present]
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
  10. jpk

    jpk

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    696 IMHO was a bad bill as introduced

    It remained a bad bill as amended and subsequently passed by the house

    The senate in turn took up what the house passed incl amendment and the judicial cmt added their own amendment........

    No one so far has attempted to meld all three of the above together yet into a single readable document

    To add insult to injury the CoC then added another amendment which needs to be resolved against the first three......

    So here are the 4 that need to be combined.....

    As Introduced
    http://gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_status/billText.aspx?sy=2019&v=HI&id=14&txtFormat=html

    House Amendment 2019-0395h
    http://gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_status/billtext.aspx?sy=2019&txtFormat=amend&id=2019-0395H

    Senate Amendment 2019-1968s which in combination of the two above passed the Senate
    http://gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_status/billtext.aspx?sy=2019&txtFormat=amend&id=2019-1968S

    House rejected the above changes by Senate and called for CoC

    CoC proposes a THIRD amendment to the three above.....2019-2523c which in turn passes both chambers
    http://gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_status/billtext.aspx?sy=2019&txtFormat=amend&id=2019-2523C

    When you merge all four of the above you get a hot mess that is still a bad squishy bill that the gov needs to veto

    Anyone that thinks the CoC amendment is "the bill" needs to re-read the CoC amendment

    When you do you'll see the intro statement that the CoC recomendation is for the house to adopt what the senate has passed on top of what the house passed and THEN adopt the CoC amendment on top of all of it.....

    Hot f***ing rancid sausage dumpster fire......

    I'll attempt to merge the 4 into one sort of readable mess of legislative language tomorrow.....
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2019
  11. FiremanBob

    FiremanBob NES Member

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    Some have reported talking with the Governor and hearing that he said he'll veto all four bills. That is great news.

    Here is why you need to keep calling, writing and emailing: When the Governor holds his public veto press conference on the TV, we want him to be able to say he has received "tens of thousands of calls, letters and emails asking me to preserve our New Hampshire Constitution and veto these bills. Not only are they unconstitutional, but their effects would not be those proclaimed by their sponsors."
     
  12. design

    design NES Member

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    Keep calling the Governor and while you are at it, call the Exec council regarding the NH Supreme Court Nominee. See this letter from NHFC from last week:

    Dear Gun Owner,

    The following alert is written by our former Executive Counselor, the Honorable Dave Wheeler: The information is important and timely as the hearing is Wednesday.


    I am writing to inform you of an important nomination to the New Hampshire Supreme Court.

    The New Hampshire Constitution says that judges, once confirmed by the Executive Council serve until they are seventy years of age.

    Our current Chief Justice, Robert Lynn, will turn seventy this year, forcing his retirement from the Court. Justice Lynn is a firearms owner, and he competes nationally in shooting sports as evidenced by the many trophies on the wall in his office at the Court. Judge Lynn has also upheld our second amendment rights from challenges from our former Attorney General Joe Foster appointed by Governor Hassan. The retirement of Chief Justice Lynn will leave big shoes to fill.

    Our current Attorney General, Gordon McDonald is just the person to fill those shoes!

    The New Hampshire Firearms Coalition had been working tirelessly for years to pass "Constitutional Carry" legislation. When we were on the brink of success, the NH Fish and Game Commission voted unanimously to oppose our proposed legislation.

    When confronted with the situation, A.G. Macdonald stepped in and reminded the commissioners that such a vote is outside of their authority and the law requires them to stick to matters of managing NH's fish and game and marine resources.

    McDonald also worked to redirect a sizable Federal grant called "Project Safe Neighborhoods" to removing criminals from our streets instead of demonizing firearms and their law-abiding owners.

    Furthermore, on several occasions he has demonstrated his support for our rights by reminding cities and towns that they must abide by our Constitution and Statues when it comes to issuing concealed carry permits. He has also reminded those officials that they are required to follow the law and that they do not have the authority to enact ordinances regarding firearms.

    I cannot emphasize enough, how important it is to have a majority of the New Hampshire Supreme Court justices that understand our right to keep and bear arms as the founders of our State understood it!

    The Executive Council is currently taking pubic input on this nomination to our highest Court. The Council is expected to vote either to confirm or deny the Governor's nomination of Attorney General Gordon McDonald to become the Chief Justice of the New Hampshire Supreme Court. The Executive Council could vote as soon as their next meeting.

    As a former member of this Council, I would ask that you invest the time to make sure our highest Court has a pro-gun majority and would ask that you contact your Executive Counselor and request that Macdonld be confirmed.

    Councilor Wheeler




    Call to Action:

    1. Call the Executive Council Office at 271-3632 or e-mail your Executive Councilor and request that they vote to confirm Gordon McDonald to the Supreme Court.



    2. Call the Governor's office at 271-2121, thank him for his pro-gun nomination to the New Hampshire Supreme Court. If you have not already done so, ask him to veto ( HB109, HB514, HB564 and HB696).
     
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  13. edmorseiii

    edmorseiii Navy Veteran NES Member

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    Just had a conversation with my rep at our FD Pancake Breakfast. He assured me that Sununununu is going to veto everything and plans to shatter the current record for vetos. He did say to keep calling and asking for vetos as a means of showing support, so keep it up.

    He also told me that the Dems were told from the start of this session to throw everything at the wall and go full retard, and that some of his Dem colleagues are concerned that the voter backlash next year is going to be harsh. I found great comfort in that.
     
  14. design

    design NES Member

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    IF you want to run for state rep, or know someone who does, please have them contact me!!! We need 400 good pro-2a reps. I have already started looking to find all of them.
     
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  15. 42!

    42! NES Life Member NES Member

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    I want to run for rep. In fact I've posted repeatedly that I would once I satisfy the 2 years residency requirement. The problem I'm running into as I look into the details, is finding a job that will allow the paid time off I would need to serve with the dedication the position deserves. Point me to that and I will have past the last hertle.

    Don't take this to mean I support a paid legislature. Coming from MA I see what a disaster professional politicians can be.

    But this real-world limit inherently limits those who can run and serve to owners of successful businesses, the independently wealth, retirees, those who live on some kind of assistance, and generally speaking those who do not have to earn a living.

    My positions are simple.
    No new laws that don't clearly solve a problem.
    No new taxes, the gov must live within what it has, just as the people do.
    Support individual liberty and responsibility.
    I would rather be know for introducing/supporting a single Bill that countless useless Bills.

    ETA: If it's not broke don't fix it.
     
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  16. Dadstoys

    Dadstoys NES Member

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    Hope you guys don't disappoint them
     
  17. 42!

    42! NES Life Member NES Member

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    Don't sit back and relax! That's how we got the Dem Legislature we have. Keep up the call, keep up the email. Be sure the Governor knows we support his veto.
     
  18. Coyote33

    Coyote33

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    1. Great!
    2. Even better. Make it happen!


    400? Wow. Best of luck to you.
     
  19. design

    design NES Member

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    NHFC just sent out another alert: Copied below:

    Dear Gun Owner,


    I wanted to bring our members up to speed on what happened in Concord this past week. Well,.. the House and Senate have spoken and based on their votes, the progressive liberals running the State House conspired against the people of New Hampshire to ‘torch' the Constitution.

    Yes, you heard me correctly. The legislators running the State House burned through any protections in either the New Hampshire Constitution or the Bill of Rights of the US Constitution.

    Two weeks ago, HB696 ‘Elder Care Gun Confiscation’ went to a Committee of Conference with a minimal vestige of due process in the legislation. However, the Bill that came out of the Committee of Conference removed all due process protections! The bill now openly requires gun confiscation with NO OVERSIGHT even from a court (as limited as that is/was).

    This is a blatant and intentional violation of Part 1, Article 15 and 19:

    “ [Art.] 15. [Right of Accused.] No subject shall be held to answer for any crime, or offense, until the same is fully and plainly, substantially and formally, described to him;” and “meet the witnesses against him face to face, and to be fully heard in his defense, by himself, and counsel.” and;

    "[Art.] 19. [Searches and Seizures Regulated.] Every subject hath a right to be secure from all unreasonable searches and seizures of his person, his houses, his papers, and all his possessions… Therefore, all warrants to search suspected places, or arrest a person…. or to seize their property, .."

    While there are some that are claiming the bill was ‘improved’ and is acceptable, the Bill as amended requires the property of the accused to be confiscated without even an ex-parte hearing or court order.

    Bottom line, HB696 as passed by the House and Senate now requires that property must be confiscated by the police upon a mere accusation. The police do not even need a search warrant to begin the process.

    Another major change to the bill was HB696 as originally passed by the House of Representatives had a process for the property to be returned if the accusation is proven false, or when the resulting order expired.

    Not only does the “compromise” Bill remove all pretense of due process and judicial oversight prior to the confiscation of property, it removes any process for the return of the property. That’s right, if you are falsely accused, there is no way to regain your property.

    It cannot be said strongly enough. HB696 removes all pretense of due process for the confiscation of property. It constitutes an aggression upon the people of New Hampshire and a distain for the Constitution which the founders put in place to limit the power of their government of unprecedented proportions.

    If allowed to become law, HB696 sets up New Hampshire to be on the threshold of becoming a police State.

    In speaking with Rep. Al Baldesaro, a Republican from Londonderry, “House Bill 696 puts every veteran in our State, who has fought to defend our country, at risk. It deprives them of the very protections in our Constitution that they risked their lives to preserve.”

    Former Rep. Daniel Itse, Republican, Fremont, “The Democrats in Concord have violated the most fundamental due process requirements in both our State and Federal Constitutions. The passage of HB696 shows total disregard for the principles of liberty upon which our country was founded, and utter contempt for the people of New Hampshire.”

    In addition to the disastrous HB696 that the House and Senate passed. The liberals in the Legislature also approved the Committee of Conference Report on HB564 ‘Criminal Safe Zones’.

    The amended Bill leaves our children with ‘on duty’ law enforcement officers as their only possible protection, if they happen to be there at the time and place of an incident. One should note, that just a mere 14 years ago on June 27th, 2005, the NY Times reported that The Supreme Court ruled on Monday that the police did not have a constitutional duty to protect a person from harm, even a woman who had obtained a court-issued protective order against a violent husband making an arrest mandatory for a violation” So the 'On-duty' officer has no requirement to get involved and the off duty officer is prohibited from carrying firearms on school property by the bill.

    I want to remind everyone how poorly ‘the no-duty to protect ruling’ worked out for the children in Broward County, when the only armed officer that could have stopped the murders choose to cower and not get involved.

    HB564 as amended leaves parents powerless to protect their children if they are at the school at the time of an incident. It leaves parents at sporting events helpless to protect their families while watching the game. It leaves inner city parents who walk their children to school daily powerless to protect their children.

    Again the House and Senate torched the Constitution by ignoring the phrase “[Art.] 2-a. [The Bearing of Arms.] All persons have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property and the state.”

    At the end of the day, the criminals don’t obey the laws. It has been shown that nearly every firearm assault has occurred in a gun free zone. Gun free zones are really free kill zones and HB564 puts every school child in New Hampshire at greater risk.

    The Democrats seem to want only murders and ‘on duty’ police to carry guns on school grounds.”

    I want to make one important personal request: In addition to calling the Governor to veto these the 4 anti-gun bills, I need you to call the Executive Council regarding Gordon MacDonald and ask that he be confirmed.

    It appears that the political party that holds the following anti-gun views* has made it their mission to defeat the nomination of pro-gun Gordon MacDonald to the New Hampshire Supreme Court.

    I make this statement as they are actively paying to ran ads against Macdonald. If you did not see the alert about AG Gordon MacDonald, and why he would be a good justice for the firearms owners, (please click here and get involved).


    Call to Action:

    1. Call the Executive Council Office at 271-3632 or e-mail your Executive Councilor and request that they vote to confirm Gordon McDonald to the Supreme Court.
    2. Call the Governor's office at 271-2121, thank him for his pro-gun nomination to the New Hampshire Supreme Court and ask him to veto all 4 anti-gun bills ( HB109, HB514, HB564 and HB696).

    Click to receive your free Constitutional Carry bumper sticker.


    *(Pulled from the Democratic Platform June 29th, 2019)

    We believe in universal background checks to protect our communities from gun violence.

    We believe that military-style weapons, bump stocks, and high-capacity magazines do not belong on our streets.

    We believe in the establishment of gun-free zones in certain public places, such as schools, as a means of reducing gun violence.

    We support a ban on guns in and on the floor of our State House for the safety of our residents, guests, and children who visit.
     
  20. KBCraig

    KBCraig NES Member

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    I fully support your stated positions. And thanks for all the fish!

    I know that being able to serve around your job is a problem. I'm not fully retired, but semi-retired with a small LEO pension and working 30+ hours per week. My "retirement job" is flexible enough that I could change my schedule to have Tuesday/Wednesday/Thursday off to attend my assigned committee hearings on Tuesdays, and Session Days on Thursdays (with the occasional Wednesday session).

    You're not required to have a committee assignment. I have a good friend who doesn't, because of his job demands; he only attends on Session Days. He's a superb advocate for liberty and RKBA, and his votes count.

    Commuting to Concord is something to consider. I'm 98 miles each way, so even short Session Days can mean 10 hours away from home. If you don't have to allow two hours for the drive, you're in better shape.

    So let me give this advice: showing up to vote is more important than anything else; if you can't serve on a committee, don't. If you can arrange to always have a Session Day as your regular day off, you don't need to worry about taking paid time off.

    One more thing: as a representative, you're also a county legislator. Many reps from populous counties blow that off, but being from Coös County, I'm one of only 10. I have to attend county meetings. If you're in Rockingham County, no one will miss you.
     
  21. MaverickNH

    MaverickNH NES Member

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    I appreciate the discussion and detail here but struggle with the hyperbole used in email campaigns - it seems every new gun law proposal is registration, confiscation, incarceration. Taken to an extreme they all are but it's hard to sort the magnitude and extent when everything pegs the meter. Not that I would accept the bills or *not* call & write if less than total annihilation of the 2ndA. If every email is TEOTWAWKI people stop reading and listening.

    But I'm not an expert in social media and email campaigns, so let' just call it my personal preference.
     
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  22. Dadstoys

    Dadstoys NES Member

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    It's all done with an end game in mind.
    Look at what incrementally led up to where England is today and it's the same playbook step by step.
    Give up nothing or give up everything.
     
  23. jpk

    jpk

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    Not an effing inch
     
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  24. Coyote33

    Coyote33

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    So, how do these differences get reconciled? Is it react STRONGLY to EVERY EMAIL, because it is all or nothing? Or is it to weed them out, and accept certain things?
     
  25. Kevin_NH

    Kevin_NH NES Member

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    I'm not saying these current bills don't rate a 7 or 8, but maybe we should hold some of our ammo for when the 9s & 10s come down the pipe?

    Nobody is saying to accept these bad bills, but maybe dial back the hyperbole? For example, I see a lot of messages calling out the "waiting period" bill as being a gun registration bill. This is disingenuous, and makes me not trust the messenger.

    I agree with the general "everything pegs the meter" sentiment -- with the NRA-style hyperbole where every "call to action" is phrased as if every bill is the end of the world, the recipients inevitably suffer from motivational fatigue.

    They've used up all the adjectives already, don't appear to have kept any in reserve for bigger threats in the future.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
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  26. jpk

    jpk

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    I havent heard ANYONE suggest that a waiting period bill is a registration bill

    You have to accept the fact though that the UBC is a defacto registration lite bill because suddenly there's a paper record for every legal transaction

    All are clear infringements so should be discarded right there with no further discussion
     
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  27. Kevin_NH

    Kevin_NH NES Member

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    For starters, both NHFC and Rick Olsen (GraniteGrok) claim this clause means "HB 514 will, if enacted into law, create a firearms registry in New Hampshire."

    Is this reading of the bill 100% wrong? No...

    Are they overreacting?
     
  28. design

    design NES Member

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    Kevin,
    by NHFC, Inc. on January 21, 2019[edit]

    Here is what NHFC stated in that alert: "And if these new ammunition rules aren’t enough to convince you how bad HB 514 is, Section II requires dealers and manufacturers to “make available records of firearm and ammunition sales for inspection by any state, county, or municipal law enforcement agency, during normal business hours.” These sales records can be inspected at any time and there is no requirement to obtain a search warrant and no requirement to show that they are investigating a crime. HB 514 will, if enacted into law, create a firearms registry in New Hampshire."

    As introduced:
    "
    159-E:1 Purchase and Delivery of a Firearm or Ammunition.

    I. No licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector shall transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver a firearm or ammunition to any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector until a waiting period of 7 days, excluding weekends and legal holidays, has expired. "Licensed importer," "licensed manufacturer," "licensed dealer," "licensed collector," "firearm," and "ammunition" shall have the same meaning as in 18 U.S.C. section 921.

    II. A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector shall make available records of firearm and ammunition sales for inspection by any state, county, or municipal law enforcement agency, during normal business hours."

    The dealer SHALL make available records of firearms sales...

    When the bill was introduced, it included firearms AND ammo sales. Not only was their the 9+ day wait, the penalty was a felony for the dealer not to comply.

    Knowing this, 'Mr. Dealer' would have evidence of all of the ammo purchased and what was in the store. Any missing ammo was sold, and he would need to know to whom it was sold. Therefore evidence of every person who purchased firearms or ammo would be kept by the dealer. That is not what happens today. This is a defacto registry [in private hands] that needed to be made available "for inspection by any state, county, or municipal law enforcement agency, during normal business hours."

    As JPK said, the UBC bill was clearly a way to build a list of gun owners, the waiting period as drafted required the list to be created by the dealer and kept for inspection.
     
  29. MaverickNH

    MaverickNH NES Member

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    I see your point. The quote isn’t “... from your cold, dead hands.” Dealers and manufactures are not going to violate law, risking fines and jail. They either comply or get out of the business. So they will comply, we will stop buying and they will get out of the business. Or we will be on a government registry list.
     
  30. Kevin_NH

    Kevin_NH NES Member

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    NHFC may or may not still feel this way about HB514 after amendments, but Granite Grok's Rick Olson definitely still does, he made the same claim about the waiting period bill just yesterday, Sure, JPK takes GG with a bucket of salt on RKBA issues, but Rick isn't nobody.
     

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