New vs Used

[matt]

Maybe this is too general a question, but I've wondered about buying new vs used. (i'm thinking in particular about semi-auto, but I'd be curious about revolvers also).

If there is a problem with a used gun (assuming I buy it from a dealer, not a personal sale) what should I expect for support?

What sorts of things should I be paying particular attention to if looking at a used gun? Are there particular areas/parts that wear? break? loosen?

Is it reasonable to ask the dealer to field strip the gun so I can inspect its insides?

Should I expect to be able to dry fire the gun (new or used)?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Used Guns

It all depends on what kind of gun. Generally, you're onw your own the moment you leave the shop unless the original manufacturer has a lifetime warrantee.

Some things to look for:

- Always remove the grips, especially on a blued gun. I've seen well cared for used guns where the owner never took the grips off for cleaning.

- If all you do is field strip it, you're taking your chances. It takes a detail strip to examine the condition of the hammer/sear/internals. Even if the shop gives you permission do not do this unless you know what you are doing - better to let the shop do it.

- Know if any modificaitons have been done, or if any parts are not factory (not always a bad thing... just look at how much some 1911 smiths get for aftermarket parts)

- Bore wear, throat erosion, top strap cutting, rounded locking lugs on a semi auto

- Examine the frame carefully for cracks, including the dust cover on a 1911. Remove all parts and check for cracks.

- Check slide to frame fit and barrel lockup on a semi-auto.

- Examine the hole into which the slide release inserts on a semi auto for any signs of "egging" (generally occurs when someone tries to tighten lockup with an excessively long link)

- Warrantee of original manufacurer. A S&W is warranteed for life so a frame cracking is not a big deal. An out of a warrantee SIG gets a polite explaination of warratee terms and the meaning of the phrase "acceptable service life." Glock and Ruger do not have official lifetime warrantees, but is sure seems that way at times.

- Examine screw heads and the edges of the sideplate on a S&W revolver for marring, and the inside edge of the sideplate for evidence it was pried off (not good)

- Make sure the cuts in the Sig roll pins are at 6:00 nad 12:00 - any other configuration indicated service by untrained personel.

 

[C-pher]

I've bought a used gun and it has an issue with feeding. I called up the manufacturer and they fixed it with no questions asked. They didn't even as if it was used. Just said to send it.

I think that it's going ot depend on the company.

My understanding that it's companies like Smith and Wesson, Para Ordnance, Ruger, Winchester, Colt and a few others...\


But I'm sure that you'll get some more good info from others on here.

 

[dwarven1]

Here's a useful post on how to check out a used revolver.

Let me echo Rob's and C-pher's comments: 1: Buyer Beware. 2: Some companies are more equal than others on service.

1: - I bought a Colt .357 from The Gun Room many years ago. I didn't, at the time, know that guns could actually wear out. I remember thinking that the grooves looked awfully shallow, but they said it was nothing... Boy, did I find out wrong later. ALWAYS CHECK OUT THAT GUN! And if you thing anything might be wrong with it, WALK AWAY. Unless you happen to have a gun expert with you to look it over for you.

2: - I bought a used Para P10 from a gentleman who belonged to Braintree R&P. Nice guy, nothing wrong with the transaction. Some months later, the gun gave me a couple of FTF's and an FTE. Called Para. They said to ship it to their Tennessee facility. THREE DAYS LATER I got a P10 back with a BRAND NEW RECEIVER. Cost? Nothing except the cost to ship it down there.

Moral: Some manufacturers just are better than others. Para, S&W, Ruger - all of these guys have treated me right at some time or another. I'd buy a new or used one of these any time with no qualms.

 

[RKG]

Limiting myself to S&W revolvers, and comments in addition to the sources linked:

1. Find out when the revolver was manufactured. Some research in advance will give you clues based on serial number range and dash number. The fact of the matter is that mid-80s S&Ws needed a fair amount of work to be put into the shape that 50s and 60s and early 70s guns were in when they left the factory.

2. Pay close attention to end shake. Beside being a problem in and of itself, it is often an indicator of yoke bend; this is repairable, but only with some expensive tools and, as far as I am concerned, only at the factory.

3. Be sure to inspect the forcing cone and the area of the underside of the topstrap where any gas or slug shavings impact. Too much lead build-up or, worse, steel erosion here is a good sign that the gun is out of time and has been for a while. I like to take a utility knife and gently pry off any lead windrows (they come off easily); then wipe with a clean handkerchief and examine what the underlying steel looks like.

4. I would insist on a slow DA dry fire, on each cylinder, paying attention to safety issues, of course, and watching the cylinder stop action. After being released by the trigger, it should drop into its slot in the cylinder with still a bunch of trigger travel left. Timing is not simply a matter of the stop dropped into the slot, but rather the cylinder trying to continue turning against the stop.

5. If you're looking at used S&W revolvers -- many, if not most, of which are probably better than new guns, I'd recommend getting a copy of Jerry K's book and studying the inspection checklist pages.

 

[FPrice]

One of the best threads on how to check out a used revolver is on TheFiringLine:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57816

This should answer more than a few questions on what to look for in a used revolver.

 

[Jarhead]

My best advice would be that if you're kind of new at this and flying solo go for a quality new piece.

Having said that if you REALLY know what to look for there are a whole lot of quality used guns out there that will give a lifetimes worth of shooting.

 

[mark056]

RKG you are right on target with your sage advice on what to look for in a used revolver. I'm not so sure, though, that S&W guns made in the 70's were really that good either. When Bangor Punta bought out the Wessons in the early 60's they maintained quality control for awhile, but things really started to slip in the late 60's. From what I understand S&W was going 24/7 then to fill both military and police contracts. If you are interested and want to research the topic, the experience of the Salt Lake City Police Department with the Model 58 .41 Magnum is worthy of the time. Guns came broken, out of time and in several cases .44 mag cylinders according to Evan Marshall.

N Frames were especially in demand at this time frame because so much was going to K frame contract guns. I bought an S&W Model 27 around 1974 that had a huge blemish on the barrel, was sloppily machined, and had a rather stiff action. Why did I buy it ? Well, I waited almost six months and I just had to have an N frame Smith...the follies of youth :?
It was take that one of wait another six months.

Things actually improved for S&W in the 80's when Lear Sieglar purchased the company. Some quality control returned. The only thing was S&W tried to play catch-up as police agencies were going semi-auto and companies like Sig and especially Glock were making real inroads into the traditionally S&W dominated police market. The S&W autos weren't popular, you may recall that it was about at this time that S&W started literally the "gun of the week". A collector could probably spend half a lifetime collecting every Third Generation variant of S&W service autos.

Anyway, Thompkins Ltd bought Smith and I am of the opinion that things got better quality control-wise, a trend that has continued under its new owners from what I am able to see. Still, my preference for a S&W handgun would be 1950's or early 1960's, provided it was in good shape.

But anyway, again, a great post on what to look for in a used (or new for that matter) revolver.

Mark

 

[matt]

My best advice would be that if you're kind of new at this and flying solo go for a quality new piece.

Having said that if you REALLY know what to look for there are a whole lot of quality used guns out there that will give a lifetimes worth of shooting.

Well, I'd have to say I fall neatly into the "really DON'T know" catagory... and since I am flying solo, I'll almost certaintly go new. But I don't want to miss a good deal if I cross one...

How about some of the re-manufactured/refurbed Glocks available at FS? Any thoughts on those? Are they "as new"?

Thanks,

Matt

 

[Len-2A Training]

Matt,

From what I see, the Glock refurbs are back to current Glock specs. Buying one is buying "as good as new", with full lifetime warranty.

 

[Lynne]

One of the questions I ask when I buy a gun is "How long do I have to be able to take this to the range and try it, and IF something is wrong with it, or I don't like it, to bring it back here for a refund?" All my guns have been used (and I've never had to bring one back), but in the three stores I've bought from, all of them have told me I had 5 days (one was 3 days) to try it, and if I wasn't happy, to bring it back.

There's no reason why they shouldn't take the gun back and issue you a refund if you aren't happy with it Matt. Make sure you ask before you sign on the dotted line, and make sure you keep your receipt.