New member here, and also new to gun ownership! Quick legality question... MA residen

[Dalym1985]

Hi there. My father purchased rifle and gave it to me as a gift. We have a vacation home in NH that I love to go to almost every weekend. I don't have a FID in Ma or a LTC... If I keep the rifle in NH and use it at a range in NH, and only travel with it in NH, am I still legal? I know non residents don't need a LTC as long as the weapon and mag aren't loaded.

Thanks, I don't want to get in trouble with the law so this is kind of urgent I get feedback. I couldn't find anything online with my unique situation.

 

[CRSIII]

This should help. http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/forums/82-New-Hampshire-Laws

Welcome to NES!

 

[JRT]

Reading is dangerous. I know a guy who fell down the steps of the library and broke his hip. I vowed to never read again.

OP, you're fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well, maybe not.

If you and your Father were residents of the same state when you were GIFTED the gun, all is good.

If you and your Father lived in different states when he "gifted" the gun, under FEDERAL law, the "gift" was illegal. In that case, he still legally MUST own the gun unless you get an FID or LTC in MA and both of you and the gun go to a FFL (in NH is fine) and do a legal transfer.

In the meantime, you certainly can legally BORROW said gun in NH and shoot it when/wherever you'd like that is legal up there.

 

[Dalym1985]

We are both Massachusetts residents. So if I leave it in nh and only travel with it unloaded in NH to the range, I'm legal correct, even without an FID.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Correct. The only hitch to you "owning" it is that you can't legally own any guns/ammo in MA w/o an FID or LTC (depending on >21 and type of gun).

 

[Dalym1985]

So I legally "own" it, but leave it in NH?

also, for the record I do plan on getting my FID/LTC as I have 402b preference for the police force. I just plan on getting it while I'm the academy and not have to pay for it.

I I want to start using it at the range as I intend to go hunting this fall, for dear and turkeys. If it matters it's a savage .308

 

[greencobra]

This was an interesting question, I learned something also.

And yes, welcome, glad to have you.

 

[JohnZ]

Correct. The only hitch to you "owning" it is that you can't legally own any guns/ammo in MA w/o an FID or LTC (depending on >21 and type of gun).

How would he fill out the fa10?

 

[browncoat]

How would he fill out the fa10?

Huh. Maybe he could fill it out as a registration, since the gift happened in NH. Until the rifle comes back into MA, it doesn't need to have an FA-10 done on it. What a weird scenario, this is one of those cases where it doesn't really fit into the current "boxes".

 

[teaser452]

Huh. Maybe he could fill it out as a registration, since the gift happened in NH. Until the rifle comes back into MA, it doesn't need to have an FA-10 done on it. What a weird scenario, this is one of those cases where it doesn't really fit into the current "boxes".

this is was my understanding. I can buy any rifle in NH and keep it at my buddy's place. The only issue would be if I wanted to bring it to MA. I would have to fa-10 it in x number of days and it would have to be mass awb compliant.

Maybe be I am wrong?

 

[radioman]

Hi there. My father purchased rifle and gave it to me as a gift. We have a vacation home in NH that I love to go to almost every weekend. I don't have a FID in Ma or a LTC... If I keep the rifle in NH and use it at a range in NH, and only travel with it in NH, am I still legal? I know non residents don't need a LTC as long as the weapon and mag aren't loaded.

Thanks, I don't want to get in trouble with the law so this is kind of urgent I get feedback. I couldn't find anything online with my unique situation.

Welcome! And pay your 20 bucks and join up. It's well worth the money.

 

[yanici]

So I legally "own" it, but leave it in NH?

also, for the record I do plan on getting my FID/LTC as I have 402b preference for the police force. I just plan on getting it while I'm the academy and not have to pay for it.

I I want to start using it at the range as I intend to go hunting this fall, for dear and turkeys. If it matters it's a savage .308

So, after you get your LTC have Dad do the EFA-10 transfer on line and you'll be all set. No reason why you can't borrow Dad's gun 'til then if he transports it to NH for you and you use it there.

 

[spt_1955]

You have to love a father who buys a gun for a son who does not have an LTC or FID.

As far as the EFA-10 is concerned .. just register the gun with an efa-10 after you get your LTC your father doesn't have to be involved. ... and before anybody jumps ugly on me .... when you transfer a firearm using an FFL there is no efa-10 transfer REMOVING the gun from your possession. The system is not a registration system it's a database of firearms transactions. I've sold firearms to FFL's and I have no idea who they sold it to or whether it was sold to a MA resident.

 

[IvIax]

You can keep a tiny nuclear bomb in NH. MA would not care.

 

[99105]

Seabrook?

 

[whacko]

So I legally "own" it, but leave it in NH?

also, for the record I do plan on getting my FID/LTC as I have 402b preference for the police force. I just plan on getting it while I'm the academy and not have to pay for it.

I I want to start using it at the range as I intend to go hunting this fall, for dear and turkeys. If it matters it's a savage .308

you are not going to hunt turkey with a 308 are you?

 

[73BLow]

you are not going to hunt turkey with a 308 are you?

I thought the same thing. I used #4 shot. I guess 308 would definitely take one out.

 

[whacko]

I thought the same thing. I used #4 shot. I guess 308 would definitely take one out.

Yeah it would. And also it would be illegal.

 

[JayMcB]

Correct. The only hitch to you "owning" it is that you can't legally own any guns/ammo in MA w/o an FID or LTC (depending on >21 and type of gun).

I'll add that you may also have difficulty purchasing ammunition in NH. Some stores will want to see a valid FID/LTC before they will sell ammunition to a MA resident. The closer to the border you get, the more likely you will be 'carded'. As an example, Shooter's Outpost has carded me every time I've purchased ammo there.

 

[CRSIII]

Turkey? Try this.
[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gO9LANrlDjs[/video]

 

[fencer]

Turkey? Try this.
[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gO9LANrlDjs[/video]

Damn - that was pretty cool.

 

[SquirtGun]

Welcome! And pay your 20 bucks and join up. It's well worth the money.

To make the above comment understandable to a noob.....here ya go...>Welcome to a great community!

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/5103-NES-Memberships

 

[Riverside]

So I legally "own" it, but leave it in NH?

also, for the record I do plan on getting my FID/LTC as I have 402b preference for the police force. I just plan on getting it while I'm the academy and not have to pay for it.

I I want to start using it at the range as I intend to go hunting this fall, for dear and turkeys. If it matters it's a savage .308

Young man, I strongly suggest you bring some fancy bait when you hunt dear.
Sorry, I just couldn't resist.
Happy hunting.

 

[dcmdon]

We are both Massachusetts residents. So if I leave it in nh and only travel with it unloaded in NH to the range, I'm legal correct, even without an FID.[/QUOTE.

Yes but... At the very least, you are a New Hampshire resident. There are a lot of people who don't know this, but if you have a weekend home in another state, the ATF considers you to be a resident of that state when you are in that state.

Seriously.

This is explicitly spelled out in the instruction section on an ATF form 4473 for questions 2 and 20.

So my next question is whether your father goes up there regularly. If so, he is a NH resident also. In which case a legal transfer of the gun between two NH residents involves him handing you the gun. That's it.

Don

 

[dcmdon]

Question 2. Current Residence Address: U.S. Postal abbreviations are acceptable. (e.g., St., Rd., Dr., PA, NC, etc.). Address cannot be a post office box. County and Parish are one and the same.
If the buyer is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty acquiring a firearm in the State where his or her permanent duty station is located, but does not reside at his or her permanent duty station, the buyer must list both his or her permanent duty station address and his or her residence address in response to question 2. If you are a U.S. citizen with two States of residence, you should list your current residence address in response to question 2 (e.g., if you are buying a firearm while staying at your weekend home in State X, you should list your address in State X in response to question 2).

Question 13. State of Residence: The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is a member of the Armed Forces on active duty, his or her State of residence also is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located.
If you are a U.S. citizen with two States of residence, you should list your current residence address in response to question 2 (e.g., if you are buying a firearm while staying at your weekend home in State X, you should list your address in State X in response to question 2.)

Question 20.b. Alternate Documentation: Licensees may accept a combination of valid government-issued documents to satisfy the identification document requirements of the law. The required valid government-issued photo identifica- tion document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of transferee may be supplemented by another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee’s residence address. This alternate documentation should be recorded in question 20.b., with issuing authority and type of identification presented. A combination of government-issued documents may be provided. For example, if a U.S. citizen has two States of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver’s license (showing his name, date of birth, and photograph) issued by State Y and another government-issued document (such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address.

 

[JohnZ]

Hi there. My father purchased rifle and gave it to me as a gift.

The reason I asked about the fa10 was I assumed that the father bought the rifle in ma. If that's true, ma has a record of the rifle when it was purchased. I have not done a fa10 in forever and forget if it requires purchaser fid/ltc number. If it does, the son does not have a number so would the system not allow the fa10 to go through?

I thought I remember reading posts here that talked about filling in ltc number for the buyer. Maybe I'm remembering wrong.

 

[dcmdon]

Or just go to to NH and do it with nothing more than a handshake since the son is a bona fide NH resident.

I'm continually surprised by the number of people on this board who have places in NH and don't realize that they are legitimate residents when they are up there.

At the very least it's a great source for non-MA compliant handguns. Just fa10 it when y bring it in.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Don, you're stretching assumptions to fit a desired result. And when messing with Fed Law, that is not something that I advise people to do.

Here's my take on it:

- If the Father owns/leases property up there and stays there regularly for some amount of time (can be merely weekends), yes he's considered a dual resident of MA and NH.

- If the Son owns/leases property (or due to a custody agreement spends x days/month) in NH, then he too can be a dual resident.

However, I'll use a real personal example of what I believe does NOT make one a dual resident.

- I moved to CT from my Parents home in MA for a job.

- Since most of our friends were in MA, I frequently came up to MA on weekends to go out with those friends and stayed at my Parents home in MA. In no way would I have considered myself a MA resident at that point, since it was random and I was merely staying at their home in lieu of a hotel, not INTENDING to make a residence there. So if this is the case (he's merely visiting) when the OP is in NH, no way would I want to defend that as a dual residency.

 

[dcmdon]

I agree with you in your scenario.

But in this case, based on the OP there is no messing with fed law. There is no stretching.

If the OP spends weekends in NH at a family place per ATF regulation, he is a resident of NH. I've cited the instructions on the 4473 which EXPLICITLY gives an example of someone who is domiciled in one state and has a weekend residence in another state.

If the OP and his father both legitimately spend weekends there regularly, they are bona fide residents of NH per the ATF. This is not grey at all.

I would not advise stretching things if they did't spend time there. But the OP stated in the OP that:

We have a vacation home in NH that I love to go to almost every weekend.

There is no grey there. If you don't believe this, call the ATF like I did and ask them. I can give you the date of the my call and the name of the investigator if you need it

Again, I'd never advocate anyone lying on a 4473. Or even stretching the truth. However the OP has a place in NH that he goes to "almost every weekend". Per the ATF, he is a NH resident when he is there. Period.

If you are a U.S. citizen with two States of residence, you should list your current residence address in response to question 2 (e.g., if you are buying a firearm while staying at your weekend home in State X, you should list your address in State X in response to question 2).

Don

p.s. Please remember there is a difference between being domiciled in a state and being a resident of a state. You can be the resident of 20 states is you legitimately make a home in those states. You have only one domicile. Traditionally this is where your DL is located and where you vote.


****Update****9/2 - I spoke with an ATF inspector and he said uses the following litmus test: Do you keep clothing and belongings at the second residence? Do you have your own space? If so, its a residence. If not, you are visiting.