My Tranny is leaking

chris_1001 said:
Had tires put on at a local shop. Said I needed a cabin and air filter based on the oil change sticker. I said nah, I’m good. Looked at the quote late when I got home. $30 each for the filters AND $30 EACH for labor!!! WTF?

If I saw that before I left...

Paid $40 for both and installed them in less than 3 minutes.
Click to expand...
Did you include the time to get the parts $30 labor each is a bit stiff depending on the style.
But think of it like this
What did that 3min actually cost you
From turning on the light switch paying all the bills and paying yourself to do the work and turn a profit on the part.
Lets say book time pays tech .2hrs and he makes a piddly $13hr
Figure out per minute what it cost to do that job....
 
mac1911 said:
Did you include the time to get the parts $30 labor each is a bit stiff depending on the style.
But think of it like this
What did that 3min actually cost you
From turning on the light switch paying all the bills and paying yourself to do the work and turn a profit on the part.
Lets say book time pays tech .2hrs and he makes a piddly $13hr
Figure out per minute what it cost to do that job....
Click to expand...

If I could get $30 to swap ONE filter, I'd do it all day long. I'd quit my engineering job and do that all day...

A few min on amazon, order filters, then go about my life for a day or two. Get delivery notice, open front door, open box, swap filters. OK, lets say 10-12Min tops.

I saved $80 by doing it myself.

They also quoted me on a battery (yes it was dying). I think the bat was $165 PLUS $60 to install it. I went to autozone, they put it in for free... so 15-18 min of my time to save yet another $60

So lets say 1 hour of my time to do both the battery and filters with the drive, the wait etc all included. I saved myself $140

I did both front and rear brakes on my 4Runner last year, spent ~$210 for two front rotors and both front and rear pads. Dealership wanted ~$900. Prob spent 2.5-3 (including ordering the parts online) hours on it. Saved $690.

I know my hourly rate, and I made (saved) more fixing my stuff than if I had worked.

I'm well aware of "opportunity cost". But looking at my math above, I faired really well.
 
chris_1001 said:
If I could get $30 to swap ONE filter, I'd do it all day long. I'd quit my engineering job and do that all day...

A few min on amazon, order filters, then go about my life for a day or two. Get delivery notice, open front door, open box, swap filters. OK, lets say 10-12Min tops.

I saved $80 by doing it myself.

They also quoted me on a battery (yes it was dying). I think the bat was $165 PLUS $60 to install it. I went to autozone, they put it in for free... so 15-18 min of my time to save yet another $60

So lets say 1 hour of my time to do both the battery and filters with the drive, the wait etc all included. I saved myself $140

I did both front and rear brakes on my 4Runner last year, spent ~$210 for two front rotors and both front and rear pads. Dealership wanted ~$900. Prob spent 2.5-3 (including ordering the parts online) hours on it. Saved $690.

I know my hourly rate, and I made (saved) more fixing my stuff than if I had worked.

I'm well aware of "opportunity cost". But looking at my math above, I faired really well.
Click to expand...
Open up a quick service station that only does lof air filters and cabin air filters , even heated/Ac seat filters let us know how it works out,
Heck buy a jiffy libe franchise?
Again your missing all the associated costs of having the “business”
 
jhblaze1 said:
winner winner chicken dinner!
Click to expand...
Going on memory (i work on anything and everything) the heater core AC evap is dead nuts above the trans.
Thats the 2008-12 ish models, just seeing bigger problems on the 2015 and newer as they come in out of warranty
 
HorizontalHunter said:
Clearly one of them is wrong.

Every time I have had a bad heater core you could smell the coolant on the cabin.

If there is a coolant leak it should be low in the reservoir.

Bob
Click to expand...

When i picked it up he put it back on the lift and showed me where the leak was actually coming from. It's dripping onto the top of the transmission from a line above it and riding the seams down. Can see it clear as day. The machanic was like i can see why someone might think its coming from the tranny if they take a quick glance at it but if you spend 2 minutes under here with a flashlight and a mirror It's pretty obvious your transmission has nothing to do with any of this.

So it's definitely coolant but wheter its just a leaking hose or actually the heater core he couldnt say. He said he called the jeep dealership to see if they have a heater core in stock and they do and the parts guy was like let me guess you got a wrangler in your shop. My mecahnic said the jeep guy told him nationwide mopar is selling 250 wrangler heater cores a week. Im sure that unit is used in multiple fca vehicles but its apparently a known piece of shit.

The AC had been acting up lately but i just assumed it was unrelated to the leak under the car. It hisses and alternates between blowing cold and tepid air.

One day a few weeks ago i thought i smelled a whiff of coolant but it was almost imperceptible so i kind of shrugged it off.

This shop seems either a lot more honest or competent than the other but im not convinced replacing a heater core is a $1500 job. He said something like 6 or 7 hours of labor. The part itself is only like $200 plus discharging and recharging the AC. Seems high.

I feel like this should be a 5 to 600 dollar job but what do i know.
 
mac1911 said:
Open up a quick service station that only does lof air filters and cabin air filters , even heated/Ac seat filters let us know how it works out,
Heck buy a jiffy libe franchise?
Again your missing all the associated costs of having the “business”
Click to expand...

Oh, I absolutely understand.... I worked as a wrench, as a service writer, parts and even sales at several dealerships and two independent shops long long long ago. Plus a few of my own (non car) businesses.

But they guy knew I was a car guy and not an idiot off the street, then have the nerve to try charge me that much in labor. That and the amount were insulting...

The dealership that quoted my brakes (OMG YOU HAVE TO DO THEM ASAP OR YOU WILL DIE) f'ing lied to me about the all the pad thickness's (I got a report with the measurements). When I pulled them, they had WAY more meat left than their measurements.

I don't like being lied to, taken advantage of or just plain dicked around...

I paid for the tires, install and (cough) "shop supplies" (they still use squirrel piss or did PETA end that? lol) because I don't have the equipment.

I do however pay for oil changes...
 
jhblaze1 said:
When i picked it up he put it back on the lift and showed me where the leak was actually coming from. It's dripping onto the top of the transmission from a line above it and riding the seams down. Can see it clear as day. The machanic was like i can see why someone might think its coming from the tranny if they take a quick glance at it but if you spend 2 minutes under here with a flashlight and a mirror It's pretty obvious your transmission has nothing to do with any of this.

So it's definitely coolant but wheter its just a leaking hose or actually the heater core he couldnt say. He said he called the jeep dealership to see if they have a heater core in stock and they do and the parts guy was like let me guess you got a wrangler in your shop. My mecahnic said the jeep guy told him nationwide mopar is selling 250 wrangler heater cores a week. Im sure that unit is used in multiple fca vehicles but its apparently a known piece of shit.

The AC had been acting up lately but i just assumed it was unrelated to the leak under the car. It hisses and alternates between blowing cold and tepid air.

One day a few weeks ago i thought i smelled a whiff of coolant but it was almost imperceptible so i kind of shrugged it off.

This shop seems either a lot more honest or competent than the other but im not convinced replacing a heater core is a $1500 job. He said something like 6 or 7 hours of labor. The part itself is only like $200 plus discharging and recharging the AC. Seems high.

I feel like this should be a 5 to 600 dollar job but what do i know.
Click to expand...

Years ago I had a massive oil leak on a ford. I tried everything to find it, but with the amount of oil, it was nearly impossible. But I had looked at the top of the intake manifold and saw oil... It was the oil pressure sender. at the time a $5-7 part. But never thought to look on TOP of the engine.
 
My Tranny is leaking

Are you sure it's leaking? It might just be weeping...

tenor.gif
 
jhblaze1 said:
When i picked it up he put it back on the lift and showed me where the leak was actually coming from. It's dripping onto the top of the transmission from a line above it and riding the seams down. Can see it clear as day. The machanic was like i can see why someone might think its coming from the tranny if they take a quick glance at it but if you spend 2 minutes under here with a flashlight and a mirror It's pretty obvious your transmission has nothing to do with any of this.

So it's definitely coolant but wheter its just a leaking hose or actually the heater core he couldnt say. He said he called the jeep dealership to see if they have a heater core in stock and they do and the parts guy was like let me guess you got a wrangler in your shop. My mecahnic said the jeep guy told him nationwide mopar is selling 250 wrangler heater cores a week. Im sure that unit is used in multiple fca vehicles but its apparently a known piece of shit.

The AC had been acting up lately but i just assumed it was unrelated to the leak under the car. It hisses and alternates between blowing cold and tepid air.

One day a few weeks ago i thought i smelled a whiff of coolant but it was almost imperceptible so i kind of shrugged it off.

This shop seems either a lot more honest or competent than the other but im not convinced replacing a heater core is a $1500 job. He said something like 6 or 7 hours of labor. The part itself is only like $200 plus discharging and recharging the AC. Seems high.

I feel like this should be a 5 to 600 dollar job but what do i know.
Click to expand...

At least you have the final answer. It is amazing that Mopar is getting away with not doing a recall or extended warranty for that.

Doing a heater core is a bitch. It is on the firewall and you have to take most of the dash and HVAC out of the car to get at it. I did one once when I was young and dumb.

Bob
 
HorizontalHunter said:
jhblaze1 said:
This shop seems either a lot more honest or competent than the other but im not convinced replacing a heater core is a $1500 job. He said something like 6 or 7 hours of labor. The part itself is only like $200 plus discharging and recharging the AC. Seems high.

I feel like this should be a 5 to 600 dollar job but what do i know.
Click to expand...
Doing a heater core is a bitch. It is on the firewall and you have to take most of the dash and HVAC out of the car to get at it. I did one once when I was young and dumb.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I've ridden twice in a Jeep product.
(And I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night).
But I whiffwatched a YoutUbe video.

I skipped ahead to the point where the Entire Freaking Dash
is sitting on the shop floor. [shocked]

Suddenly the labor charge seemed a lot less inflated.


A different video shows where you can make these Three Weird Hacksaw Cuts
through allegedly "non-load bearing" steel member(s) under the dash,
and reach the core without removing everything.
(Maybe the dolts in Engineering should have put bolt-together splices
in those beams).

It's all fun and games until you discover that the small steel beams
are what keep the engine out of your lap in a head-on collision,
or prevent an inflated airbag from collapsing the dash.
Not saying that's true, but yeesh...
 
I haven't done a heater core in years but yea they are usually pretty big jobs. I knew some guys that had a technique where they cut a hole behind the dash on certain vehicles so they could get them quicker. I would never do anything like that but for the most part customers would never know. That doesn't sound as crazy of a price as you think it is. Unfortunately.
 
AHM said:
I'm not sure I've ridden twice in a Jeep product.
(And I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night).
But I whiffwatched a YoutUbe video.

I skipped ahead to the point where the Entire Freaking Dash
is sitting on the shop floor. [shocked]

Suddenly the labor charge seemed a lot less inflated.
Click to expand...

That’s not just a Jeep thing or Mopar thing.

The real trick is getting everything back where it goes WITHOUT ending up with dash squeaks that drive you crazy.

Finding the right good local mechanic that you trust makes all the difference in the world. There is a small shop I got to that is terrific.
I was having them do a 50k driveline service upgrading the fluids to Amsoil. When they had the rear diff cover off they took the extra few minutes and repainted it.

After I paid the bill I gave the owner an extra $20 to buy the two guys who worked on my truck lunch.

Bob
 
HorizontalHunter said:
The real trick is getting everything back where it goes WITHOUT ending up with dash squeaks that drive you crazy.
Click to expand...
OMG; my father loved his peace and quiet.

The '75 Galaxie 500 developed a dashboard squeak
(and he was the only driver in the family,
so he couldn't road-test it with his head behind the dash).

He eventually cured it with a length of lath wedged between the firewall
and the lower lip of the dash skirt. You could see if if you were working
on the CB wiring or trailer brake controller.
 
AHM said:
OMG; my father loved his peace and quiet.

The '75 Galaxie 500 developed a dashboard squeak
(and he was the only driver in the family,
so he couldn't road-test it with his head behind the dash).

He eventually cured it with a length of lath wedged between the firewall
and the lower lip of the dash skirt. You could see if if you were working
on the CB wiring or trailer brake controller.
Click to expand...

That is exactly how I am.

Bob
 
AHM said:
I'm not sure I've ridden twice in a Jeep product.
(And I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night).
But I whiffwatched a YoutUbe video.

I skipped ahead to the point where the Entire Freaking Dash
is sitting on the shop floor. [shocked]

Suddenly the labor charge seemed a lot less inflated.


A different video shows where you can make these Three Weird Hacksaw Cuts
through allegedly "non-load bearing" steel member(s) under the dash,
and reach the core without removing everything.
(Maybe the dolts in Engineering should have put bolt-together splices
in those beams).

It's all fun and games until you discover that the small steel beams
are what keep the engine out of your lap in a head-on collision,
or prevent an inflated airbag from collapsing the dash.
Not saying that's true, but yeesh...
Click to expand...
yeah I saw forum people talking about this hacksaw shortcut. I'd never do that to a vehicle I owned. I can't believe people will just do shit like that to their vehicles based on people on forums and youtubes telling them it's fine. This is why I will NEVER buy a used car ever again. You never know what kind of ridiculous shit the previous owner did to it. If I were keeping this thing I'd just fix it properly, but it's not worth it to me to pay $1500 and then never recoup it. If Carvana discovers it before reselling it will cost them a lot less cuz they can do the labor at actual cost not at retail (i.e. ass rape the customer cost). I'd never sell this to some schmoe on the street without disclosing it but Carvan claims to do a 125 point inspection prior to selling so they'll find it and fix it before the next guys gets it.

I just went to AAA to renew my reg and convert MA title to CA title and they said 2-4 weeks but probably 3ish to get the CA title back. I'm not driving it anymore so unless I come out and find a giant coolant puddle under it, i'm selling it as is. If It somehow does completely fail between now and then I'll probably have to fix it. Not the end of the world but who wants to spend $1500 right before Christmas.

Lesson learned, never buy FCA again.
 
ColdDayInHell said:
All the Wrangler haters and I bet all of them never even f***ing owned one [rofl]

OP could leave it leaking glue all over the ground and STILL get 90% value for it.

Find me any other vehicle you can do with that.



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUabDrfjATY
Click to expand...


My buddy has owned two Wranglers and the stories he told me of the crap that went wrong with them was enough to keep me away. I loved my Grand Cherokee Overland, but the damn thing was in the shop every month for recalls or issues fixed under warranty, something a 2-3yo vehicle shouldn’t do. Jeep quality and reliability are piss poor.

Meanwhile my wife’s 10yo Honda Pilot with 150k miles has only ever needed a power steering pump and regular maintenance... and is still driving strong with my kid behind the wheel now. I don’t disagree about Wrangler resale value, but that seemed to be based on the stupidity of consumers and a lack of competition in the segment. With the Ford Bronco coming next year, Jeep will now have real competition in the segment and I expect Wrangler resale value to normalize and drop once consumers realize how crappy Jeep quality and reliability is and have an actual choice other than Jeep for a 4x4 with a removable top.

Jeep owners are like abused spouses... always defending the crap they go through, until they finally leave and realize you don’t have to live like that.
 
Last edited:
mav said:
My buddy has owned two Wranglers and the stories he told me of the crap that went wrong with them was enough to keep me away. I loved my Grand Cherokee Overland, but the damn thing was in the shop every month for recalls or issues fixed under warranty, something a 2-3yo vehicle shouldn’t do. Jeep quality and reliability are piss poor.

Meanwhile my wife’s 10yo Honda Pilot with 150k miles has only ever needed a power steering pump and regular maintenance... and is still driving strong with my kid behind the wheel now. I don’t disagree about Wrangler resale value, but that seemed to be based on the stupidity of consumers and a lack of competition in the segment. With the Ford Bronco coming next year, Jeep will now have real competition in the segment and I expect Wrangler resale value to normalize and drop once consumers realize how crappy Jeep quality and reliability is and have an actual choice other than Jeep for a 4x4 with a removable top.

Jeep owners are like abused spouses... always defending the crap they go through, until they finally leave and realize you don’t have to live like that.
Click to expand...

Never going to happen. Jeeps response was pretty brilliant. The 392 Wrangler which I lust over now. I have a few friends including myself with Wranglers... not one issue.

The only problem a buddy of mine had was his own fault. It was his 2012 plowing beater and he let it sit for 8 months. Parking brake seized, tranny was low and needed a replacement. He called a dealer and traded it in. He paid 23k for it. He f***ing got 18k for it. 18k. It almost had to on a flatbed to the dealer [rofl]

The Bronco won't affect the resale value and I don't care either way since I'll keep mine until it rusts out... then maybe I'll sell it rusted, for $20k. :p

And don't get me wrong, I think the new Bronco is boss. They did a damn good job but some of the models look like little girls' toys. Only time will tell if they're a willing competitor to Wrangler. They'll never match the incoming 392 though. 470hp/470 ft/lbs of torque.

And I also agree that Mopar is near dogshit, BUT, the pentastar 3.6 (my motor) has been proven to be extremely reliable.
 
Last edited:
chris_1001 said:
Oh, I absolutely understand.... I worked as a wrench, as a service writer, parts and even sales at several dealerships and two independent shops long long long ago. Plus a few of my own (non car) businesses.

But they guy knew I was a car guy and not an idiot off the street, then have the nerve to try charge me that much in labor. That and the amount were insulting...

The dealership that quoted my brakes (OMG YOU HAVE TO DO THEM ASAP OR YOU WILL DIE) f'ing lied to me about the all the pad thickness's (I got a report with the measurements). When I pulled them, they had WAY more meat left than their measurements.

I don't like being lied to, taken advantage of or just plain dicked around...

I paid for the tires, install and (cough) "shop supplies" (they still use squirrel piss or did PETA end that? lol) because I don't have the equipment.

I do however pay for oil changes...
Click to expand...
Shop supplies are a standard , most shops have a min amount they charge . Your filters for example
i have this little spat all the time. "Nothing takes 5 minutes"
Tires , ugh unless your a huge tire outlet not a ton of profit there. Look at what a good tire machine and balancer go for. Do a ROI on that.

Unless the small shop owns the property is pretty dumb how expensive it is to run an small shop.
So in the end the small little jobs like air filters, wiper blades light bulbs get a larger up kick in profit.
Your goal as a DIY 'r is to save money.
shops goal is to pay all the pills and cover payroll for 4+ workers.

i have not needed the services of a engineer since my land was surveyed. i could not believe the cost for 2 guys walking around looking through small spotting scopes on tripods, lol.

In the end we all have the chance to say no.

now as far as shops that make shit up or lie about needed work, I dont get it. i have a parking lot full of cars that dont need shit made up or exaggerated about to sell repairs. Owners are pretty good on Fn up the cars as it is.

Its all good, be thankful if you have the ability to diy.

oh and as a mechanic to a engineer, FU for some of the dumbass designs i have to deal with .....lol

The cost of property , bills, insurance and the cost of good dependable help was/is what kept me from ever opening a shop in massachusetts.
Find my a decent 4 bay shop in a good location thats not run down and needs all new equipment that wont require several investors and a boat load of your own money. Good luck.
How many new repair shops have you seen pop up in the last 10 years.
 
Last edited:
jhblaze1 said:
When i picked it up he put it back on the lift and showed me where the leak was actually coming from. It's dripping onto the top of the transmission from a line above it and riding the seams down. Can see it clear as day. The machanic was like i can see why someone might think its coming from the tranny if they take a quick glance at it but if you spend 2 minutes under here with a flashlight and a mirror It's pretty obvious your transmission has nothing to do with any of this.

So it's definitely coolant but wheter its just a leaking hose or actually the heater core he couldnt say. He said he called the jeep dealership to see if they have a heater core in stock and they do and the parts guy was like let me guess you got a wrangler in your shop. My mecahnic said the jeep guy told him nationwide mopar is selling 250 wrangler heater cores a week. Im sure that unit is used in multiple fca vehicles but its apparently a known piece of shit.

The AC had been acting up lately but i just assumed it was unrelated to the leak under the car. It hisses and alternates between blowing cold and tepid air.

One day a few weeks ago i thought i smelled a whiff of coolant but it was almost imperceptible so i kind of shrugged it off.

This shop seems either a lot more honest or competent than the other but im not convinced replacing a heater core is a $1500 job. He said something like 6 or 7 hours of labor. The part itself is only like $200 plus discharging and recharging the AC. Seems high.

I feel like this should be a 5 to 600 dollar job but what do i know.
Click to expand...
depending on the labor rate , I did not look up the labor time for a core, at 6 hrs, $200 for core and associated fluids $1500 is not far off.
If its the same core mopar uses in the trucks i have seen several 2010-2015 go bad
Again going on memory if your jeep has the quick connect plastic fittings the plastic and the crimp on the hose deteriorates.
The easiest way to spot a coolant leak in your heater box is find the drain spout. Depending on design you can get a scope up there and see whats going on.
You can use dye in the coolant system also.

sounds like you found a better mechanic 2nd time around. Mis diag does happen. I bet mechanic #2 has seen that leak before and knew where to look.

we have a bunch of tools to allow us to see and find leaks. "Smoke" machine, dye and a good UV light, endoscopes, thermal image , heck they even make frequency diag stuff to isolate vibrations.

All fun, 30 yrs now .....not as much fun these days.
The cost of tools is slowly driving me to retirement or something different.
I spent 5k this year and you would be hardpressed to see where.
Cost of living and increase cost of tools has out paced pay increases by alot.
 
Super99Z said:
The real issue is consumers have no clue how expensive it is to operate a business.
Click to expand...

This....times a Brazillion.

The following has never gone down, only up, nearly every year in the last 20 in business:

Unemployment tax
E&O insurance
General liability insurance
Rent
Utilities
Workman’s comp
Health insurance (fvck you Obamacare)
Family medical leave tax - collected but not eligible
Equipment tax
Reimbursed mileage for field and sales people
Help wants raises - every year
As a bonus....I’ve had to pay 10 weeks of employee salaries this year from the CARES act because someone in their family got a sniffle.
Merchant fees because everyone wants their miles and cash back.....over $500 a week last year

Then someone will bitch about a consulting rate. GFY.
 
JayMcB said:
This....times a Brazillion.

The following has never gone down, only up, nearly every year in the last 20 in business:

Unemployment tax
E&O insurance
General liability insurance
Rent
Utilities
Workman’s comp
Health insurance (fvck you Obamacare)
Family medical leave tax - collected but not eligible
Equipment tax
Reimbursed mileage for field and sales people
Help wants raises - every year
As a bonus....I’ve had to pay 10 weeks of employee salaries this year from the CARES act because someone in their family got a sniffle.
Merchant fees because everyone wants their miles and cash back.....over $500 a week last year

Then someone will bitch about a consulting rate. GFY.
Click to expand...
And you have not even unlocked the door yet.

Wish I got a raise every years
 

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