My Rant About the Boston Police Department and Renewals

[JellyFish]

I sent this to my state senator, rep and to a few other politicians earlier today. I know it won't do any good but it felt good to vent a little bit. The Boston PD are the absolute worst people I've ever seen as far as licensing goes.

I go for my test next Thursday at Moon Island. Yaaaaay, another range test for my renewal. Another waste of my time and energy...ugh...

Here's my rant:

"I'm writing to ask that you do something to reign in the
Boston Police Department. I went down there today to renew my gun
license and it seems that they are still adding conditions, tests,
requirements that are NOT found anywhere in massachusetts state laws
about firearms.

Specifically, they require a voluminous amount of paper work (birth
certificate, utility bills, etc.) and a ridiculous range test
requirement for renewals (it's bad enough they waste our time with
that when we first get a license but we have to do it again when we
renew our license?).

When you go for a renewal you don't just get to pay your $100. You
start all over again, right at the beginning of the process. I was
forced to provide all of the paperwork despite the fact that I lived
at exactly the same address as I did when I first got my license (all
of my information was *exactly* the same).

Why isn't a Massachusetts drivers license enough ID for them? And why
are they allowed to require a range test for a renewal? No other
police department in the state has the same ridiculous requirements
that the Boston police department has. I'm extremely irritated that I
have to waste more of my time taking a range test I already passed
when I first got my license. Not to mention that they only issue
crippled "restricted" licenses without being forced to state in
writing what their reasons are for restricting the license in the
first place.

So I want to ask you: What are you planning on doing to
stop the abuse of citizens that the Boston Police Department is
engaging in when it comes to firearms licensing? What legislation are
you sponsoring and are you working with GOAL on any legislation
related to these kinds of abuses by the Boston Police Department?

It's ironic that the Boston PD chooses to spend its resources
harassing law abiding, taxpaying gun owners and yet allows criminals
to run wild all over the city, wantonly shooting and murdering whoever
they want. Shouldn't they be out arresting criminals instead of trying
to block citizens from simply renewing a valid firearms license?

When is this foolishness going to stop and what are you three working
on to put a stop to it? Massachusetts needs to become a "shall issue"
state so that this kind of abuse can't happen any more.

Thanks in advance for your assistance, I am very angry at the way I
was treated by the Boston PD and I want something done about it. They
need to be held accountable for going outside of Massachusetts state
law (and no, "suitability" is no excuse for their poor treatment of
law-abiding citizens, no other PD in the state behaves as poorly and
unprofessionally as they do when it comes to firearms licensing)."

 

[Lynne]

If you get any replies, Jelly - post them here, k?

 

[Adam_MA]

If you get any replies, Jelly - post them here, k?

But don't go holding your breath!

 

[Pilgrim]

What are you planning on doing to
stop the abuse of citizens that the Boston Police Department is
engaging in when it comes to firearms licensing?

Don't you understand that the reason they do this is to discourage people from applying in the first place? They don't want you to have a permit, plain and simple.

Good luck with your letters, I hope they help but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Lugnut]

It's not complicated... if they keep guns away from people like you violent crime will disappear. Bad guys won't want or need guns anymore and everything will be perfect!


Sorry- just kidding. It's just ridiculous what they can do. I though my town was a PITA by REQUIRING a letter from a doctor and 3 references!

I wish you luck and I hope there is some way that we can get local towns to standardize on this crap.

 

[Scrivener]

I though[t] my town was a PITA by REQUIRING a letter from a doctor and 3 references!

There is no such requirement in the MGL or the CMR; further, a general care physician is not qualified to determine sanity. It is also a likely violation of HIPPA requirements.

So why provide superfluous material and encourage still MORE abuse?

 

[JellyFish]

Well no responses from anybody yet guys. I sent it to Healey, Romney, Marian Walsh, Mike Rush, Jarrett Barrios, Tom Reilly, the speaker of the house, and the president of the senate.

The silence is deafening. LOL

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well no responses from anybody yet guys. I sent it to Healey, Romney, Marian Walsh, Mike Rush, Jarrett Barrios, Tom Reilly, the speaker of the house, and the president of the senate.

The silence is deafening. LOL

All of whom you could count on to ban the private ownership of all guns if given half a chance! Don't expect any sympathy or help from any of them, I'm afraid.

 

[Len-2A Training]

There is no such requirement in the MGL or the CMR; further, a general care physician is not qualified to determine sanity. It is also a likely violation of HIPPA requirements.

So why provide superfluous material and encourage still MORE abuse?

Minor point!

HIPPAA is a joke, but given that it is a law . . . it is supposed to prevent UNAUTHORIZED release of medical info. However, it is my layman understanding (IANAL) that if the "patient" requests the letter (release of info) to a third party, there is no violation of HIPPAA. Am I correct or not?

Now, what the PD may do with that info might be another issue, however I don't believe that they are under any such HIPPAA restrictions with the info that they get. Again, please correct me if my assumptions here are incorrect.

 

[Scrivener]

Minor point!

HIPPAA is a joke, but given that it is a law . . . it is supposed to prevent UNAUTHORIZED release of medical info. However, it is my layman understanding (IANAL) that if the "patient" requests the letter (release of info) to a third party, there is no violation of HIPPAA. Am I correct or not?

The one such form I saw was a FULL, GENERAL release; it was NOT limited to the specific application dor even theepartment. Rather, it expressly authorized THIRD PARTIES to obtain patient info.

Since such PDs are more imitative than creative, I would expect this drivel to be copied by other departments and foisted off on applicants foolish enough to put up with such crap.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Scriv,

Almost every form you fill out for insurance, doctor/hospital visits are the same way, FULL, GENERAL, and usually good for YEARS . . . allowing them to do whatever with your info. Once you sign it, you've "voluntarily" given away your rights to privacy!

I agree with your opinion of that situation however!

 

[Scrivener]

Almost every form you fill out for insurance, doctor/hospital visits are the same way, FULL, GENERAL, and usually good for YEARS . . . allowing them to do whatever with your info. Once you sign it, you've "voluntarily" given away your rights to privacy!

HOWEVER, those using the info are doing so for medical reasons; reviewing files for either treatment or payment. In short, a valid reason.

Hardly equivalent to being coerced to provide material not required by law and then having some beat cops reading your records and chortling about them at the local donut hut.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

M
HIPPAA is a joke, but given that it is a law . . . it is supposed to prevent UNAUTHORIZED release of medical info.

HIPPA grants homeland security officials complete access to all medical records, much like the "bank secrecy act" in the Nixon era actually increased the number of disclosures banks had to make to the government. Newspeak at its finest.

But, there is a doctor who had this habit of accidently faxing me his patients prescriptions (My fax #is 1 digit away from a pharmacy). This finally stopped after I started writing "HIPPA VIOLATION" on the forms and faxing them back to his office.

 

[Lynne]

There is no such requirement in the MGL or the CMR; further, a general care physician is not qualified to determine sanity. It is also a likely violation of HIPPA requirements.

So why provide superfluous material and encourage still MORE abuse?

Dearest Scriv....it's very true that a doctors letter isn't part of the MGL's, so maybe you would like to tell that to the PC's of No. Andover, Andover and Lawrence??? Methuen also used to require that, however a new Chief came in and dropped that part of the process. However, those 3 STILL want one. From what I understand, Andover has been asking for one for over a dozen years now.

About three years ago Ed and I were invited to be part of a doctors conference that was held at the Lawrence Gen. Hosp. The PC's of No. Andover and Andover were there explaining why they wanted to have the doc's write letters for their patients that were applying. The doc's were NOT happy about it, let me tell you, and they voiced their displeasure to the two chiefs quite vocally. You'll notice that it didn't do much to change their minds.

FWIW...

 

[bpm990d]

Dearest Scriv....it's very true that a doctors letter isn't part of the MGL's,

I wonder if they would give me an ALP of I could get a doctors note from a proctologist?

I feel bad for all of you that suffer in the Peoples Republic. I'm a wimp and bailed long ago.

Sorry.

 

[Scrivener]

Dearest Scriv....it's very true that a doctors letter isn't part of the MGL's, so maybe you would like to tell that to the PC's of No. Andover, Andover and Lawrence???

If I have a client in any of those towns for whom I'm preparing an application I will - IF the client has the necessary physical accoutrements and financial resources to challenge the local bully.

 

[Lugnut]

Dearest Scriv....it's very true that a doctors letter isn't part of the MGL's, so maybe you would like to tell that to the PC's of No. Andover, Andover and Lawrence??? Methuen also used to require that, however a new Chief came in and dropped that part of the process. However, those 3 STILL want one. From what I understand, Andover has been asking for one for over a dozen years now.

About three years ago Ed and I were invited to be part of a doctors conference that was held at the Lawrence Gen. Hosp. The PC's of No. Andover and Andover were there explaining why they wanted to have the doc's write letters for their patients that were applying. The doc's were NOT happy about it, let me tell you, and they voiced their displeasure to the two chiefs quite vocally. You'll notice that it didn't do much to change their minds.

FWIW...

Being from one of the Andovers I have to suffer from this process. I'm fortunate that my doctor had no problem submitting this document and was quite familiar with the process. If however, I was rejected, I'd unlesh the rath of all the lawyers I could find. At least that's what I'd like to do.

 

[Admin]

If I have a client in any of those towns for whom I'm preparing an application I will - IF the client has the necessary physical accoutrements and financial resources to challenge the local bully.

I think local asshat would be a better term.

 

[daceman63]

Minor point!

HIPPAA is a joke, but given that it is a law . . . it is supposed to prevent UNAUTHORIZED release of medical info. However, it is my layman understanding (IANAL) that if the "patient" requests the letter (release of info) to a third party, there is no violation of HIPPAA. Am I correct or not?

Now, what the PD may do with that info might be another issue, however I don't believe that they are under any such HIPPAA restrictions with the info that they get. Again, please correct me if my assumptions here are incorrect.

You are correct. In this instance it would only be a violation if the PBD released that information to anyone else. It's not a violation of HIPPA if the patient requests the info and submits it or signs a waiver to allow the info to be released.

 

[LoginName]

Dearest Scriv....it's very true that a doctors letter isn't part of the MGL's, so maybe you would like to tell that to the PC's of No. Andover, Andover and Lawrence??? Methuen also used to require that, however a new Chief came in and dropped that part of the process. However, those 3 STILL want one. From what I understand, Andover has been asking for one for over a dozen years now.

About three years ago Ed and I were invited to be part of a doctors conference that was held at the Lawrence Gen. Hosp. The PC's of No. Andover and Andover were there explaining why they wanted to have the doc's write letters for their patients that were applying. The doc's were NOT happy about it, let me tell you, and they voiced their displeasure to the two chiefs quite vocally. You'll notice that it didn't do much to change their minds.

FWIW...

Can somone explain this to me then...

"Applicants for a Non-Restricted Firearms Identification Card (FID) will be required to submit the following:

* A completed FID permit application.
* A letter from the applicant’s physician stating the applicant has no medical or psychological issues that would preclude him/her from owning, carrying, or legally using a firearm. A letter is not required for renewals.
* The person, if they are between and including the ages of 15 and 17 years old, must have a letter from their parent giving them permission to have an FID card. The parent must sign the letter in front of the licensing authority at the Police Station.
* A firearms safety certificate, issued by a certified firearms safety instructor who has satisfied the requirements of the Colonel of the Massachusetts State Police or a certificate issued by the Massachusetts Division of Fisheries and Wildlife. (Not required for renewals)

http://www.lawpd.com/operations/firearms.htm

If an FID card is "shall issue", how is the Lawrence police chief able to place an additional restriction on issueing one?

From the M.G.L ...

(3) The licensing authority may not prescribe any other condition for the issuance of a firearm identification card and shall, within 40 days from the date of application, either approve the application and issue the license or deny the application and notify the applicant of the reason for such denial in writing; provided, however, that no such card shall be issued unless the colonel has certified, in writing, that the information available to him does not indicate that the possession of a rifle or shotgun by the applicant would be in violation of state or federal law.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129b.htm

 

[Scrivener]

Being from one of the Andovers I have to suffer from this process.

Only if you CHOOSE to suffer it.

If however, I was rejected, I'd unlesh [sic] the rath [sic] of all the lawyers I could find. At least that's what I'd like to do.

Too little; too late. The time to address that issue is when you file. By accommodating the bully, you ratify his abuses and encourage new ones.

 

[Lugnut]

Only if you CHOOSE to suffer it.



Too little; too late. The time to address that issue is when you file. By accommodating the bully, you ratify his abuses and encourage new ones.

Well the reality is we all have to make some trade offs. At the time when I renewed I wasn't aware that it was illegal or at least not typical. Regardless- if I had made a stand at that point it could have cost me a license or a restricted license which would have been more of a problem for me. I'd rather operate in a flanking mode if I can. I've since joined a club where the Andover PD practices and hope to meet some of the folks on the force to find out more about the dept. I've also talked to many that have had similar experiences with the Dr note (including attorneys) and was told there's not a heck of lot individually I can do. I'll continue to support GOAL and the NRA as much as possible as they are better poised to address these issues. I really wonder how many would go up against the chief (s) one on one on this issue- and if so, what happened. It's unfortunate but it seems the local PD has lots of leeway. On the other hand if I was rejected, the ramifications of fighting would be minimal.

 

[Patriot]

Do they really wonder why people are bailing out on this police
state hellhole?

TBP

 

[K-DUB]

When I applied, I didn't submit anything except for the items required by the state, & if a renewal is denied in the future, I'll battle (within the law) like the mean bitch I am. I'm of the mindset that NO ONE tells me I can't have something, that is guaranteed to me by my Constitution, as I have done nothing that disqualifies me.

(edited to add: I know this is easier said than done, but I wish more of us stood up to them & their add-on rules.)

 

[JellyFish]

How? There is NO accountability in this state whatsoever. Whatever the cops want to do is what the law is in practice. There is NO way to fight the Boston PD on the range test, which is really pissing me off as I'm supposed to go to do it (I passed last time but I'm not sure I will be able to do it this time as easily as I have some carpal tunnel in my right hand).

I'm making sure that I have moving money on hand if I don't pass the test. I know I can retest if I don't make it but I'm not sure I will bother. I'm keeping an eye on apartments in New Hampshire and that may be where I head if I leave Boston. It's really getting hard to justify staying in this city and state any more. I'd rather wait a year before leaving but if that means not getting my license renewed then I will leave the state.

There simply is no valid way to fight the Boston PD or any other police department in this state (there's no grounds to take them to court on the range test that I know of as they will claim that it's covered under "suitability".)

Incidentally not one of the politician a**h***s answered my email. Not one of them. That shows you how great Romney and Healey are on gun issues (not that we didn't already know that). As far as the democrats I wrote to go, I expected nothing more from them.

When I applied, I didn't submit anything except for the items required by the state, & if a renewal is denied in the future, I'll battle (within the law) like the mean bitch I am. I'm of the mindset that NO ONE tells me I can't have something, that is guaranteed to me by my Constitution, as I have done nothing that disqualifies me.

(edited to add: I know this is easier said than done, but I wish more of us stood up to them & their add-on rules.)

 

[JellyFish]

Yup, this place blows and has for a while. Inertia, family and friends have kept me here but I don't know if that will be enough much longer. I'm sick of the taxes and the elitist leftists that run this place. There is no hope of improvement, the republican party is dead in this state except for the useless RINO governors that accomplish nothing of real value to gun owners for the most part.

Do they really wonder why people are bailing out on this police
state hellhole?

TBP

 

[JellyFish]

You have more common sense than all of us put together. I salute you sir! LOL

I wonder if they would give me an ALP of I could get a doctors note from a proctologist?

I feel bad for all of you that suffer in the Peoples Republic. I'm a wimp and bailed long ago.

Sorry.

 

[JellyFish]

Incidentally, I emailed Jesse Cohen about the range test for renewals in Boston and he said I'd be happier in New Hampshire. LOL

So I doubt there's any way to fight them on that requirement or any other. They are Licensing Gods and they know it. They can do whatever they want, to whoever they want, whenever they want to.

Meanwhile, as I pointed out to Jesse, the gangbangers continue to run wild in Boston. And so it goes here in Meninostan... LOL

 

[Len-2A Training]

Incidentally, I emailed Jesse Cohen about the range test for renewals in Boston and he said I'd be happier in New Hampshire. LOL

So I doubt there's any way to fight them on that requirement or any other. They are Licensing Gods and they know it. They can do whatever they want, to whoever they want, whenever they want to.

Meanwhile, as I pointed out to Jesse, the gangbangers continue to run wild in Boston. And so it goes here in Meninostan... LOL

Both Jesse and you are right!

IIRC, there is a rather infamous court case Atty Karen MacNutt vs. Comm'r of Boston PD (sorry I don't have a cite) where she specifically sued wrt to the Moon Island test. Court ruled that the test was "reasonable" and fit the "suitability" discretion of the police comm'r. So fighting it has been tried and lost. You can't really win these battles in MA courts, not until all discretion is taken away from the local chiefs/politicians . . . and that won't happen in MA!

 

[JellyFish]

I bet Boston will be adding that to their license requirements soon. I am somewhat surprised that it's not already in there, given all the rest of the crap they ask for.

Being from one of the Andovers I have to suffer from this process. I'm fortunate that my doctor had no problem submitting this document and was quite familiar with the process. If however, I was rejected, I'd unlesh the rath of all the lawyers I could find. At least that's what I'd like to do.