moving to MA with previously-owned firearms

[Moga]

How do MGL 140 S.123 & 940 CMR 16.00 affect the person that establishes residency in MA after amassing a gun collection in a "free-state?" Are the firearms contained in the collection subject to the abovementioned MA state law or code of regulations?

I'm trying to figure out how handguns are being sold in MA that don't predate GCA-1998 and are not on the Approved Firearms Roster. The only way I figure they got to MA is by them being brought into the state with a person that establishes residency from outside of the Commonwealth.

 

[SiameseRat]

The only way I figure they got to MA is by them being brought into the state with a person that establishes residency from outside of the Commonwealth.

My husband is from AZ. We have non-compliant guns because he brought them in from when he moved. He didn't have to fill out an FA-10 because there was no transfer of ownership. They're just his guns, brought in legally. No problems. So yes, if he decides to sell, they're here legally.

 

[Len-2A Training]

As SR stated, those moving in are given a "free pass" to bring their belongings (including guns, but NOT "new" hi-cap mags or new "SAW" rifles) into MA when they move. NO FA-10s, you just have to obtain an LTC BEFORE moving the guns out of your house to shoot/carry.

FTF transactions between LTC holders who are both MA Residents also can ignore "approved handgun" Lists or AG Regs.

 

[Moga]

Thanks SR & LenS for the help understanding how the law works for out-of-state firearms. I won't feel the least bit of trepidation about buying a XD40 FTF now that I know that there's a lawful explanation for the possession of a non-compliant sidearm in MA.

 

[matt]

The only exception is post ban high cap magazines, but the guns are no problem.

 

[SiameseRat]

The only exception is post ban high cap magazines, but the guns are no problem.

very true. good point!

 

[Tweed]

A NO FA-10s, you just have to obtain an LTC BEFORE moving the guns out of your house to shoot/carry.

I had been told that the guns brought into the state would have to REGISTERED on an FA-10. no different than if I bought a gun outside the state.

 

[Scrivener]

I had been told that the guns brought into the state would have to REGISTERED on an FA-10. no different than if I bought a gun outside the state.

Like Rick Blaine about the "healing waters" of Casablanca, you were "misinformed."

 

[Moga]

The only exception is post ban high cap magazines, but the guns are no problem.

So if your non-compliant handguns were purchased before coming to MA with hicap mags in a free-state you have to leave those behind before entering the commonwealth?

 

[JonJ]

So if your non-compliant handguns were purchased before coming to MA with hicap mags in a free-state you have to leave those behind before entering the commonwealth?

If post ban, yes unless you're a LEO.

 

[dreppucci007]

So if your non-compliant handguns were purchased before coming to MA with hicap mags in a free-state you have to leave those behind before entering the commonwealth?

You got it

 

[Moga]

Alright fellas. I think I have it now. Thanks for all the patience.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Many police chiefs will tell you that everything you own must be registered when you move into MA.

This is INCORRECT and "wishful thinking" on their part. [Most that tell you that are control freaks that just love to "have information" about everyone and everything.]

The law specifically ALLOWS you to move in, unlicensed and does NOT require registration of your guns when you do.

 

[Scrivener]

Originally Posted by Moga
So if your non-compliant handguns were purchased before coming to MA with hicap mags in a free-state you have to leave those behind before entering the commonwealth?

The MAGAZINES; not the guns themselves. Get 10-rounders for the guns and you are in the clear.

 

[Arioch]

As SR stated, those moving in are given a "free pass" to bring their belongings (including guns, but NOT "new" hi-cap mags or new "SAW" rifles) into MA when they move. NO FA-10s, you just have to obtain an LTC BEFORE moving the guns out of your house to shoot/carry.

FTF transactions between LTC holders who are both MA Residents also can ignore "approved handgun" Lists or AG Regs.

But I believe that if you sold or gave the guns to a MA resident an FA-10 would have to be filed.

Will someone please confirm this?

 

[M1911]

But I believe that if you sold or gave the guns to a MA resident an FA-10 would have to be filed.

Will someone please confirm this?

In MA, you must file an FA-10 if you buy, sell, find, or lose a gun. So yes, if he sold the guns to a MA resident after he moved to MA, he would have to submit a completed FA-10.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Max 4 sales/year FTF.

 

[matt]

The MAGAZINES; not the guns themselves. Get 10-rounders for the guns and you are in the clear.

This may be a stupid question, but what if you put the equivilent of a shotgun magazine plug in teh bottom of your magazine? Or had an extra long follower that took up the space of the "extra" rounds? I don't think anyone commercially makes such a thing, but it seems it would render it "low cap", and you'd be able to hold on to your evil "high cap" components in case you were to move back to a reasonable state.

What do you think?

 

[KMaurer]

I'm sure that Keith will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think either of those approaches would meet the requirements of the law, since they could be easily restored to large capacity status by removing the plug or changing the follower. You'd have to permanently attach the limiting part, which defeats the entire purpose.

Ken

 

[LoginName]

This may be a stupid question, but what if you put the equivilent of a shotgun magazine plug in teh bottom of your magazine? Or had an extra long follower that took up the space of the "extra" rounds? I don't think anyone commercially makes such a thing, but it seems it would render it "low cap", and you'd be able to hold on to your evil "high cap" components in case you were to move back to a reasonable state.

What do you think?

Doesn't sound legal in this state...

"“Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; or (ii) a large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994. The term “large capacity feeding device” shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with,.22 caliber ammunition".

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-121.htm

From Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31)...

" (b) DEFINITION OF LARGE CAPACITY AMMUNITION FEEDING DEVICE- Section 921(a) of such title, as amended by section 2(b) of this Act, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(31) The term `large capacity ammunition feeding device'--

`(A) means--

`(i) a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device that has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than 10 rounds of ammunition; and

`(ii) any combination of parts from which a device described in clause (i) can be assembled; but..."

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c103:1:./temp/~c103EtLS5A::


One other thing worth mentioning...

Under the 94 federal AWB, if any 'hicap magazine or feeding device' lacked any markings, the burden of proof is on the Government to show that the items are illegally possessed...


"(4) If a person charged with violating paragraph (1) asserts that paragraph (1) does not apply to such person because of paragraph (2) or (3), the Government shall have the burden of proof to show that such paragraph (1) applies to such person. The lack of a serial number as described in section 923(i) of title 18, United States Code, shall be a presumption that the large capacity ammunition feeding device is not subject to the prohibition of possession in paragraph (1)."


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c103:1:./temp/~c103Fbz9vo:e650830:

I have no idea wheter or not that would have any standing or application in a MA court of law.

 

[Cross-X]

If post ban, yes unless you're a LEO.

..and those mags are used for a law enforcement purpose, I do believe.

 

[Len-2A Training]

LoginName, I very seriously doubt that any requirement of markings is in the MGL prohibiting new hi-cap mags. And I also doubt that the gov't would have to "prove" (as we understand the term) that they are post-ban hi-caps. [I believe that if a DA "stated" that a mag was banned, that the average judge or jury in MA would believe him on "face value". . . unless you had a dynamite defense that could prove differently to the judge/jury.]

 

[KMaurer]

Whether that particular magazine is banned is a question of fact, so if the DA wants to testify, let him/her first get qualified as an expert witness [as if!] and take the stand where he/she can be cross-examined. Otherwise, STFU. [I doubt that I phrased that exactly in the proper legalese, but I don't get paid $200 an hour to do so. ]

Ken

 

[LoginName]

..and those mags are used for a law enforcement purpose, I do believe.

Not necessarily as retired LEOs are also exempt from the mag ban restrictions.

 

[LoginName]

LoginName, I very seriously doubt that any requirement of markings is in the MGL prohibiting new hi-cap mags. And I also doubt that the gov't would have to "prove" (as we understand the term) that they are post-ban hi-caps. [I believe that if a DA "stated" that a mag was banned, that the average judge or jury in MA would believe him on "face value". . . unless you had a dynamite defense that could prove differently to the judge/jury.]

I would hope that in a MA court of law that "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt" still applies... for firearms related cases and anything else.

WRT to 'burden of proof' (as defined in the 94 ban in my previous post), MA has pretty much incorporated at least some of the federal and ATF definitions rulings and application of the law (threaded barrels must be permanently covered over, collapsible stocks can be permanently pinned, thumbhole stocks are not pistol grips, etc). So at least there is some precedent in applying federal firearms definitions to existing MA firearms laws... Then again, IANAL.

All I know is that I would not want to be the one to be a test case.

 

[drgrant]

Thanks SR & LenS for the help understanding how the law works for out-of-state firearms. I won't feel the least bit of trepidation about buying a XD40 FTF now that I know that there's a lawful explanation for the possession of a non-compliant sidearm in MA.

That isn't the only possible explanation...

Even if an MA FFL screws up and sells you a gun you're not supposed to
have, you, as the buyer, are NOT breaking the law, unless the gun is otherwise
statutorily prohibited (EG, it's a so called "assault weapon", or the magazines
themselves are illegal due to being of post-ban manufacture).

So, if by some miracle, you found an FFL which got you an XD, at
least on your side of the deal, it's completely legal. The dealer
though, could possibly get in a LOT of trouble. (Course I'm also
running the assumption that said dealer was at least smart enough
to get you 10 round mags with it, and not posties, which are
obviously illegal due to the relative youth of the XD).

It's important to remember that MA "handgun compliance" regs are dealer to
consumer based regulations. If you're not a "handgun purveyor" (I
think thats the term) selling more than 4 guns a year, with a
dealers license, then you're essentially immune from the compliance
regs.

-Mike

 

[vellnueve]

So, from what I've read in this thread, I can bring a non-compliant handgun + preban hi-caps into Mass that I owned before moving to mass. Is that correct? (They're still in MD, but I plan to go back, once I get the LTC, to get my guns along with some other belongings that are still there)

 

[KMaurer]

That's right. "Compliance" only means that Massachusetts licensed dealers may legally sell a particular firearm; it has absolutely nothing to do with what you can own, possess, bring with you into the state, or transfer privately.

Ken

 

[Adam_MA]

Also.....

If someone were looking to make some money, they could buy some of the more desirable handguns that us subjects in MA cannot buy from a dealer, bring them into the state when you move here, and sell them via face-to-face sale after you get your LTC. Perfectly legal to do, just don't bring any post-ban hi-caps with you!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Just so you know . . .

- There is ONLY ONE EXCEPTION to the requirement to register all your guns with the State of MA!

- That EXCEPTION is ONLY when you bring your guns with you AT THE SAME TIME YOU MOVE IN!

- If you wait until you get your LTC, you MUST (by law) register each and every one of them on an individual FA-10 form!

- You are legally allowed to have the guns in your home when you move in, even with no LTC. There is a "grace period" legally allowed to get your LTC. You may not take the guns out of the house during that period of time.

What you do is up to you, but you should be aware of the law (and BEWARE of what you post on the Internet). There are advantages to NOT having everything registered with the state and this is the only opportunity you get to do that legally.