McCarthy introduces "no fly, no buy legislation.

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Because, she never met a gun control idea that she didn't like.

I feel safer already... [angry]


Reps. McCarthy and Israel to Stand with Law Enforcement and Announce ‘No Fly, No Buy' Act Today
Wednesday May 13, 2009

McCarthy and Israel to introduce bill to keep guns out of terrorists’ hands and to keep cops safe



Washington, DC—Today, May 13, 2009 at 11:00 a.m. Rep. Carolyn McCarthy (NY-04) and Steve Israel (NY-02) will host a press conference to announce the introduction of the No Fly, No Buy Act, which seeks to close the ‘terror gap’ by preventing people whose names appear on the Transportation Security Administration’s terrorist “no fly list” from being eligible to buy guns. At the event, Reps. McCarthy and Israel will be flanked by law enforcement officials and will be joined by the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence to highlight the importance of keeping guns out of the hands of people that are known or suspected terrorists and their continued commitment to fighting to strengthen gun violence prevention laws that protect police and our communities.



Under current law, terrorist watch list checks are not part of the Brady background check process, because being a suspected or known terrorist was and is not a disqualifying factor for firearm transfer/possession eligibility. The No Fly No Buy Act seeks to correct this serious loophole in our nation’s gun laws.



“For far too long, the ‘terror gap’ has left a wide open loophole in our nation’s gun safety laws that could allow terrorist to acquire guns the same way any law abiding citizen can. The No Fly, No Buy Act uses existing TSA data to update the NICS system with the names of known or suspected terrorists to disqualify them from passing the Brady Background Check. This is a common sense gun bill that will prevent guns from falling into the wrong hands,” said Rep. McCarthy.



“Gun safety measures like the ‘No Fly, No Buy’ Act should be a no brainer for every Member of Congress. It’s common sense legislation. I’m proud to be introducing this bill with Congresswoman McCarthy. She’s on a mission to end gun violence in this country, and for as long as I’ve been in Congress I’ve been proud to support her in those efforts,” said Rep. Steve Israel.



Newly released FBI data documents 230 occasions in 2006 where persons on the violent gang and terrorist watch list were able to purchase guns. Furthermore, in January 2005, the GAO reported that in a five-month period—February 3, 2004 through June 30, 2004—NICS checks resulted in an estimated 650 terrorist-related record hits in their databases. Of these, 44 were found to be valid. However, 35 of these transactions were allowed to proceed because being identified as a known or suspected terrorist is not grounds to prohibit a person from being transferred a firearm under current law.



Since 9-11, Congress has passed many laws to improve homeland security. Yet, this loophole remains open. If someone is denied the chance to board an airplane because of suspected ties to terrorists, then they should also be denied the opportunity to purchase a gun. Individuals with ties to terrorists have bought guns in the past and used them to kill Americans. Some notable incidents:



In the summer of 2007, six terror suspects were arrested for plotting an attack on Fort Dix after trying to buy an assortment of M-16s, AK-47s, and handguns from a government informant. On December 22, 2008, five of the six suspects were convicted of conspiracy to kill U.S. military personnel - three of those convicted were sentenced yesterday to life in prison without possibility of parole. The sixth suspect pleaded guilty in October 2007 to providing firearms to illegal aliens, and was sentenced to 20 months in prison. In addition, four of the five suspects convicted of conspiracy were also convicted of illegal gun possession.



On February 23, 1997, Ali Abu Kamal opened fire on the observation deck of the Empire State Building with a handgun purchased in Florida in violation of federal law, killing one tourist and wounding six others before killing himself.



On March 1, 1994, Rashid Baz shot and killed 16-year old Ari Halberstam on an on-ramp to the Brooklyn Bridge. Baz was armed with a machine gun, a 9 MM pistol, and a "street sweeper" shotgun.



On November 5, 1990, El Sayed A. Nosair assassinated Rabbi Meir Kahane in a Manhattan hotel with a .357 revolver with a defaced serial number. Nosair was linked to the perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.



Reps. Carolyn McCarthy Steve Israel will introduce the No Fly, No Buy Act of 2009. The bill seeks to close the terror gap. The bill amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to prohibit: (1) the sale or other disposition of a firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person is an individual required to be prevented from boarding an aircraft; and (2) the shipment, transport, possession, or receipt of a firearm or ammunition by such individuals.
Click to expand...


http://carolynmccarthy.house.gov/?sectionid=155&parentid=189&sectiontree=189,155&itemid=1038
 
However, 35 of these transactions were allowed to proceed because being identified as a known or suspected terrorist is not grounds to prohibit a person from being transferred a firearm under current law.
Click to expand...

If something this obvious has to be enforced by a clearcut new law, I don't see a problem with it.
 
So, if your on a "list" your 2A rights don't apply?

So, Napolitano can add military veterans, talk show hosts and conservatives to her "terror suspect list" and back-door taking guns rights away from law abiding AMERICAN citizens who oppose Tyranny.

Sadly, I am not surprised these NY dems want to enact the "guilty until proven innocent " doctrine.

Notice the examples this article cites where the shooters have already broken gun laws by purchasing them illegally.
 
freedom2012 said:
So, if your on a "list" your 2A rights don't apply?

So, Napolitano can add military veterans, talk show hosts and conservatives to her "terror suspect list" and back-door taking guns rights away from law abiding AMERICAN citizens who oppose Tyranny.

Sadly, I am not surprised these NY dems want to enact the "guilty until proven innocent " doctrine.

Notice the examples this article cites where the shooters have already broken gun laws by purchasing them illegally.
Click to expand...

This would include those whack job Rightwing Extremists right?
 
McCarthyism rises again[sad2]

List that you have better odds of finding yourself on accidentally than purposefully - check

List that is so large, they couldn't manage it even if the process of adding names weren't horrifically flawed - check

Lack of due process for citizens of the United States - check [angry]
 
freedom2012 said:
So, if your on a "list" your 2A rights don't apply?

So, Napolitano can add military veterans, talk show hosts and conservatives to her "terror suspect list" and back-door taking guns rights away from law abiding AMERICAN citizens who oppose Tyranny.

Sadly, I am not surprised these NY dems want to enact the "guilty until proven innocent " doctrine.
Click to expand...

This in addition to H.R. 2159, both a few days apart... something is up.

Time to line my roof with tinfoil.
 
This whole idea of the 'no fly list' is sickening, you would have thought that when Ted Kennedy was denied permisson to fly, someone would have pointed out that the emperor of the TSA does not have any clothes. Either the state has evidence to convict someone of a crime or it doesn't. They can trail someone, and survey them , and even search them if there is probable cause. But to have these super secret mystery lists, with the names of a million people , is just an obvious case of a beauracracy run amok. None of the government employees or politicians dare say anything or else risk being branded by their opponents in the next election as being soft on terrorists.

And with this whole infrastructure in place, it is inevitable that the goons in power will try to expand it's scope, using any excuse necessary. They pick guns today, then the next thing it will be employment, you may not hire someone on the "terrorist" list. Much like the previous McCarthy witch hunts. The TSA and DHS are the start of our own police state; it started with the frightened sheep giving up their rights for the promise of safety from the TSA and the "Homeland" security, and it is going to be exceptionally difficult to stop it now. Even though the threat of being killed by a terrorist is a hundred times lower than the threat of being hit by a drunk driver driving to the supermarket.
 
Just FYI, when I was on active duty myself and a dozen or so guys from my unit needed to go to Okinawa for some training. We just flew commercial out of Honolulu. When we were checking in at the airport, we discovered that one of the Marines in our group had somehow ended up on the no fly list. He was a U.S. Marine and was the comm guy that was in charge of transporting all the secret crypto fills for our radios, meaning he had a secret clearance, but he was apparently a suspected terrorist. It took a week to sort the whole thing out. After that incident I have absolutely zero faith in that BS list.
 
June4th said:
If something this obvious has to be enforced by a clearcut new law, I don't see a problem with it.
Click to expand...

If they're known to be terrorists, why are they allowed to remain in the USA?

If they're suspected to be terrorists, what criteria makes them a suspect?

Even if there's no evidence whatsoever for a persons name to be on the list (clerical error, same name, etc), they'll still be denied at the time of the NICs check and have to go through the process of clearing it up. How long will that take?

Besides... it's not as if something as simple as being able to pass a NICS check is going to stop a terrorist from obtaining firearms.
 
Glad i'm not the only one who realizes that all the "examples" provided were illegal acts of obtaining guns and that this new bill wouldn't have any affect on them what-so-ever.
 
Individuals with ties to terrorists have bought guns in the past and used them to kill Americans. Some notable incidents:

In the summer of 2007, six terror suspects were arrested for plotting an attack on Fort Dix after trying to buy an assortment of M-16s, AK-47s, and handguns from a government informant. On December 22, 2008, five of the six suspects were convicted of conspiracy to kill U.S. military personnel - three of those convicted were sentenced yesterday to life in prison without possibility of parole. The sixth suspect pleaded guilty in October 2007 to providing firearms to illegal aliens, and was sentenced to 20 months in prison. In addition, four of the five suspects convicted of conspiracy were also convicted of illegal gun possession.

On February 23, 1997, Ali Abu Kamal opened fire on the observation deck of the Empire State Building with a handgun purchased in Florida in violation of federal law, killing one tourist and wounding six others before killing himself.

On March 1, 1994, Rashid Baz shot and killed 16-year old Ari Halberstam on an on-ramp to the Brooklyn Bridge. Baz was armed with a machine gun, a 9 MM pistol, and a "street sweeper" shotgun.

On November 5, 1990, El Sayed A. Nosair assassinated Rabbi Meir Kahane in a Manhattan hotel with a .357 revolver with a defaced serial number. Nosair was linked to the perpetrators of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
Click to expand...

I wonder how many of those purchases went through an FFL.

Sigh.

Looks like it's time for me to send another email to McCarthy reminding her that more gun control isn't going to bring her dead husband back.
 
I just can't read this shit anymore.

I swear... reading about stupidity is making my blood pressure go up and it is just plain unhealthy.
 
Tinfoil wont cut it.

Try a Faraday House.

That would work for me, Just so the walls are at least 24 inches thick and its electrified IE someone gets within 12 inches of the wall and it sends out a 250,000 volt spark to them.

This would be my equivalence to please call before trespassing!!!

Where is my Ron Paul Pit Bull avatar when I need it.

Sic em Ron.

Hiltonizer said:
This in addition to H.R. 2159, both a few days apart... something is up.

Time to line my roof with tinfoil.
Click to expand...
 
June4th said:
If something this obvious has to be enforced by a clearcut new law, I don't see a problem with it.
Click to expand...

Problem is it's not that obvious. For example, what does it take to get put
on one of these watch lists? I doubt it's anything resembling due process, unless there's a qualifier up front.

Even then, there's still the issue of yet another "list" creating more false denials and delays.

Also, those who really want to buy a gun here, or anywhere else can
do so. They can either "game" NICS (which is actually pretty trivial to do) or simply buy something on the black market, as most criminals usually
do anyways.

As usual, this kind of legislation only ends up punishing lawful gun
owners more than anyone else.

-Mike
 
LoginName said:
seeks to close the ‘terror gap’ by preventing people whose names appear on the Transportation Security Administration’s terrorist “no fly list” from being eligible to buy guns. [/url]
Click to expand...

I wonder if it'll also keep people from getting their hands on box cutters, cause it sure as sh*t wasn't guns that brought down those planes on 9/11.
 
June4th said:
If something this obvious has to be enforced by a clearcut new law, I don't see a problem with it.
Click to expand...

So people who have been convicted of nothing, have never had a trial, and are otherwise free citizens can be denied rights because some bureaucrat put their name on a list? How long will it be before the gun rights crowd realizes that they have more interests in common with criminals than they do with government and law enforcement, particularly when the majority of the government views them as criminals? If knee-jerking is necessary, we are better off siding against government than for it. After all, it isn't the gang bangers and "suspected terrorists" who pass and enforce the laws that deny us our rights.
 
Reminds me a bit of that episode on "Boston Legal" when the name Denny Crane was on the "no fly list" - check it out, if you don't remember it...
 
of the many things that pissed me off about this I think it's the fact that examples used were all illegal to begin with that makes me want to personally [slap] everybody who supports this.

by citing illegal purchase examples to "support" adding another law to the books it makes you wonder how intelligent:

A. they are
B. the intended audience is who gobble this shit up

I have a question for everybody: I haven't been following the gun control attempts for very long. Has this been going on for a while or is this all new (to the Obama administration)? is this more intense than it was during the last liberal administration?
 
ochmude said:
Just FYI, when I was on active duty myself and a dozen or so guys from my unit needed to go to Okinawa for some training. We just flew commercial out of Honolulu. When we were checking in at the airport, we discovered that one of the Marines in our group had somehow ended up on the no fly list. He was a U.S. Marine and was the comm guy that was in charge of transporting all the secret crypto fills for our radios, meaning he had a secret clearance, but he was apparently a suspected terrorist. It took a week to sort the whole thing out. After that incident I have absolutely zero faith in that BS list.
Click to expand...

Hence why the best thing for restoring some sanity into that list, like oh killing it off, is to let McCarthy have her way. Because then those on the list can go and try to buy a gun and you have an instant route to challenge your place on that list. Because up until now, those on it have NO RIGHT to challenge it (congress made that so) because one has NO RIGHT to travel by air so the courts have not seen fit to override congress on the issue. Once you take away a right (heller actually applies here for once) there is a whole world of recourse one has in the form of due process. It is that due process which has been sorely lacking in this case.
 
terraformer said:
Hence why the best thing for restoring some sanity into that list, like oh killing it off, is to let McCarthy have her way. Because then those on the list can go and try to buy a gun and you have an instant route to challenge your place on that list. Because up until now, those on it have NO RIGHT to challenge it (congress made that so) because one has NO RIGHT to travel by air so the courts have not seen fit to override congress on the issue. Once you take away a right (heller actually applies here for once) there is a whole world of recourse one has in the form of due process. It is that due process which has been sorely lacking in this case.
Click to expand...
Tactically sound thinking, but not sure I'd be so happy with it if I were "that guy"...

I think a letter to Ted is in order to remind him that he was once on this list...
 
This goes hand in hand with the DHS Rightwing Extremist memo. Believe it. It's very clever. A frontal assault on the 2A will not work at this point in time, so they have to go backdoor. Who could vote against such a rational sane argument? If you're already a suspected TERRORIST on a no-fly list why on earth should you be able to buy a gun or even an ASSAULT WEAPON or COP-KILLER bullets!?

So, just pass this and then drastically expand the no-fly list to everyone that was at a Tea Party or who cares about "single issues" like the 2A, illegal immigration, etc., you know, all of the new suspected terrorists the DHS was warning you about. And VOILA- you've just made it illegal for anyone reading this post to buy a firearm.

If you think it does not DIRECTLY apply to you, you're wrong. This bill is all about you. Not the figurative you, the literal you.

YOU are the terrorists and you will be disaramed one way or the other.
 
June4th said:
If something this obvious has to be enforced by a clearcut new law, I don't see a problem with it.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately there are no set reasons why someone would be put on the "no-fly" list. On top of that, the way this is worded, anyone with the same name as someone on the no-fly list would also be denied since "their name" appears on the list, even though it's not them.

If you think these lists don't include innocent people, then maybe we should lock this "terrorist" up for the rest of his life without trial:
http://boingboing.net/2008/01/10/another-fiveyearold.html
 
And good luck getting your name off said list if you're wrongly added. And I suspect that a good portion of the content is politically motivated.
 

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