Maybe too soon for us in Boston to carry unrestricted?

I bet it was. The man should have known better too. The lesson to be learned - you can get away with driving near smashed, but have your gun on you and any detectable or perceptible amount of alcohol in your system and you are screwed. Why? Cuz gunz. But think of it this way: what if you had to use it? What if it was in a politically messy situation (Kenosha)? Do you want any question of your possible impairment coming into play? Smart choice: don't even have one drink if you are carrying.
And if you are shitfaced drunk and get convicted you can eventually get you license to drive back, but if the cops think you are impaired and .04 and the judge or jury buys that, its federal PP status for life. Ditto for failing to report a hotel fire or receiving a deposit while working for an insolvent banking institution.
 
My guess is that the transit police would deny entry to the T if the search was refused, but not force the search. The is case law, however, that one cannot withdraw consent to a checkpoint search once it has been started with consent.
It's my understanding, that if it's a fixed route transportation system, such as by rail. Then it's a public transportation source that cannot refuse ridership
 
For drivers licenses, there is a specific blood alcohol amount which evidence of intoxication. There is no such limit for intoxication while carrying.
CUI is more like "cuz a cop can articulate you were intox" not based on a line in the sand defined by bac.
sufficiently impaired to be guilty of one offense but not the other
These all sound pretty "subjective" to me. Isn't that the kind of thing this Bruen brouhaha was supposedly at least partially about?
 
These all sound pretty "subjective" to me. Isn't that the kind of thing this Bruen brouhaha was supposedly at least partially about?

Bruen has nothing to do with disqualifying offenses, at least not unless someone makes some connective tissue to it somehow. (EG a court has to say "this is unconstutional via x y z" etc. )
 
I thought it was about licensing and carrying, whether it be during application, OR revocation. How are they even different?
 
I thought it was about licensing and carrying, whether it be during application, OR revocation. How are they even different?

Bruen doesnt really touch or address the issue of actual hard-pan statutory disqualifiers, at all. If it had it would have been earth shattering, cracking open prohibited person etc.

Now, having said that I bet Clarence Thomas wanted to butcher that shit with an axe, legally, but as with every decision certain things get watered down to the LCD, and I dont think
someone like Roberts, Kavanaugh, or maybe ACB is going to get moist about slaughtering the federal governments precious prohibited person tar baby produced by GCA68.

ETA: Now I can see Bruen being "revived and amended" if a state like NYC is stupid enough to do something like "Anyone who ever had a speeding ticket cant have a gun license" which would basically give the courts a big segue to tiger uppercut the shit out of statutory disqualifiers.
 
I thought it was about licensing and carrying, whether it be during application, OR revocation. How are they even different?
Bruen did not address the suitability issue other than to say "need" is not a criteria.

Bruen also did not address the USC 18-922(g) definition of felony which makes things like CUI in MA a felony under federal law while they remain a misdemeanor under state law.

"Anyone who ever had a speeding ticket cant have a gun license" which would basically give the courts a big segue to tiger uppercut the shit out of statutory disqualifiers.
The MA misdafelony comes close. But NYC is looking at using social media posts against applicants.
 
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Now it's twice. Note that .07 and not guilty for OUI was not a defense against carrying under the influence, however, looking on the bright side the court did not scold the defendant for carrying a .25. It would have been better if the court said "An accidental discharge with the .25 could have been problematic if anyone noticed".

This is the appellate decision. The original district court trial is where the judge concluded that guns are more dangerous that cars, though the appellant court did not agree with that statement.

"We disagree that the same degree of intoxication invariably will establish guilt or innocence of both crimes. In accordance with well-established case law interpreting the OUI statute, the phrase "under the influence" refers to impairment, to any degree, of an individual's ability to safely perform the activity in question. Thus, "in a prosecution for [OUI], the Commonwealth must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant's consumption of alcohol diminished the defendant's ability to operate a motor vehicle safely." Commonwealth v. Connolly, 394 Mass. 169 , 173 (1985). Likewise, in a prosecution for FUI, the Commonwealth must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant's consumption of alcohol diminished his ability to safely carry a loaded firearm on his person (or have one under his control in a vehicle). Despite their use of common language, however, the statutes concern different instrumentalities and activities. For that reason, a trier of fact rationally may find that a particular individual was sufficiently impaired to be guilty of one offense but not the other."
This is a case of "bad facts make bad law". By observation, Veronneau was "under the influence". The .07 BT one hour after the stop is no saving grace. This case got messy when Veronneau was acquitted of the OUI charge, but was still considered "under the influence" while carrying. In reality, he should have gotten bagged for both. It seems that the appellate court was faced with a case where the acquittal was on questionable reasoning and the court was more interested in preserving the conviction on the FUI charge. The court states:
Despite their use of common language, however, the statutes concern different instrumentalities and activities. For that reason, a trier of fact rationally may find that a particular individual was sufficiently impaired to be guilty of one offense but not the other.
Here the court reasoned that a reasonable fact finder could find that Veronneau was not impaired to a degree that prevented him from safely operating a motor vehicle, something that requires a host of mental and physical challenges in an ever changing environment, but was impaired enough to prevent him from safely carrying his firearm, something that is entirely passive. The cases cited do not speak directly on this issue, but only addressing a prior allowance of inconsistent findings. This case was denied review by the SJC in 2017.

To sum up: the Veronneau should never have been acquitted of the OUI charge. The acquittal was simply one of "leniency" which is allowed, but it created a situation where the inconsistency in findings have no greater reasoning besides "cuz gunz".
 
A pat frisk is not limited to a living a human. A pat frisk is a type of search that can be performed on inanimate objects, animals, and anything else an officer is legally justified in pat frisking.
Yes illegal pat frisks can and do occur.
That sounds like circular logic. I can do it because they let me do it. ???

Pat frisk and exit orders recent decisions in MA. (Because this thread is about MA/Boston. I know NES isn't just commie Ma**h***)




https://www.mass.gov/doc/pat-frisk/download
1661878954172.png
 
NYPD search bags, not the person. MBTA transit police may do the same. As long as they do not actually touch a person's body and the person is free to decline and walk away, it is not legally a "Terry" search.

My guess is that the transit police would deny entry to the T if the search was refused, but not force the search. The is case law, however, that one cannot withdraw consent to a checkpoint search once it has been started with consent.
 
To sum up: the Veronneau should never have been acquitted of the OUI charge. The acquittal was simply one of "leniency" which is allowed, but it created a situation where the inconsistency in findings have no greater reasoning besides "cuz gunz".
Verroneau blew a .07 and the results of field sobriety tests are inadmissible, so on what basis would conviction have been justified?
 
Buying an EBT card is illegal?

Damn, I always figured if someone was to offer me a card at $.50 on the dollar I would buy it, never figured it was illegal.
I'm not sure what bothers more more, someone not knowing it's unlawful to buy someone else's welfare benefits, or the lack of a moral compass that would allow someone to buy welfare benefits legal or not.
 
I'm not sure what bothers more more, someone not knowing it's unlawful to buy someone else's welfare benefits, or the lack of a moral compass that would allow someone to buy welfare benefits legal or not.

He probably does not understand the system....

Of course it doesn't help matters that basically it's just a f****** card instead of a booklet of food stamps. Blaming the symptoms of a s*** system in some ways distracts from the fact that the root/administration is the rotten part of the
thing. The fact that you have a person who has an EBT card who freely is willing to just trade the benefits away is the bigger problem than the act of trading the benefits is...... it's kind of like grousing about somebody not locking a horse up after the horse is already running around the town destroying s***.... 🤣 if the system was administered properly those benefits would be coveted and much more strictly regulated.

Would I do it? No. Never. But i can easily see how somebody who pays a shitload of taxes would probably rationalize petty theft from government to get a tiny amount of their tax dollars back in their favor, and not feel bad about it. Especially considering the fact that the person that's really committing the welfare fraud (the people selling their benefits) in my opinion is the person that should bear the brunt of any criminal punishment. These people also wash their EBT benefits by doing s*** like selling laundry detergent or baby formula.... you think the people buying that s*** are going to be giving the seller a third degree on how they bought it originally? Good luck with that. Sometimes that s*** even gets sold to a third party or a middle man before the actual buyer ends up buying it. It may be a fruit of an illegal process but the buyer has no way of knowing that other than by making an educated guess.....
 
NYPD search bags, not the person. MBTA transit police may do the same. As long as they do not actually touch a person's body and the person is free to decline and walk away, it is not legally a "Terry" search.
Is the person free to decline and proceed to the subway, or simply free to leave and not pass the searchpoint?
 
Verroneau blew a .07 and the results of field sobriety tests are inadmissible, so on what basis would conviction have been justified?
That is not true at all. The field sobriety tests are admissible, were considered as evidence and discussed in the appeal. HGN and (currently) PBT are inadmissible without expert testimony on the scientific basis, but nine step walk and turn and one legged stand are standard FSTs and are absolutely admissible.
 
He probably does not understand the system....

Of course it doesn't help matters that basically it's just a f****** card instead of a booklet of food stamps. Blaming the symptoms of a s*** system in some ways distracts from the fact that the root/administration is the rotten part of the
thing. The fact that you have a person who has an EBT card who freely is willing to just trade the benefits away is the bigger problem than the act of trading the benefits is...... it's kind of like grousing about somebody not locking a horse up after the horse is already running around the town destroying s***.... 🤣 if the system was administered properly those benefits would be coveted and much more strictly regulated.

Would I do it? No. Never. But i can easily see how somebody who pays a shitload of taxes would probably rationalize petty theft from government to get a tiny amount of their tax dollars back in their favor, and not feel bad about it. Especially considering the fact that the person that's really committing the welfare fraud (the people selling their benefits) in my opinion is the person that should bear the brunt of any criminal punishment. These people also wash their EBT benefits by doing s*** like selling laundry detergent or baby formula.... you think the people buying that s*** are going to be giving the seller a third degree on how they bought it originally? Good luck with that. Sometimes that s*** even gets sold to a third party or a middle man before the actual buyer ends up buying it. It may be a fruit of an illegal process but the buyer has no way of knowing that other than by making an educated guess.....
I guess I have higher ideals, and I think those lower ideals are part of what is dragging down society.

Most of the time people know or at least suspect. They tell them self they aren't sure as a method to make their actions clean, but they know.

Let me tell you a story.
Back in my younger days I was a mechanic. I had/have a significant investment in my tools. Every now and then a shop would get ripped off and they would take the mechanics' tools. These are personal property not covered by shop insurance. Sometimes we would hear about it sometimes not. But it would happen that some sketchy person would stop by the shop with a trunk full of used tools. He would clearly know little more about them other than they said Snap-on, but he was selling "his" tools, cheap. We all knew these were stolen tools, or it was at least likely. I would never even consider buying them, at any cost. Some of the guys would. And then, when those buyers had their tools stolen they would cry like the whiny bitches they were. Before they bought and after I would point out that THEY were helping to create the market for the illegal action.

Participating in an illegal trade does not release you from moral responsibility just because you have some level of plausible deniability of actual unlawful action. You are still part of the problem.

As for the Gov messing up the system. That comes under the argument that one thing being done wrong justifies another wrong. It doesn't. But this is being hashed out in the student loan thread.
 
So, essentially, you can be searched at any time for any reason, and it's OK and admissible in court. There must be some boilerplate "feared for my safety/the guy looked dangerous/his shirt was untucked" and that's it. Great.

That sounds like circular logic. I can do it because they let me do it. ???

Pat frisk and exit orders recent decisions in MA. (Because this thread is about MA/Boston. I know NES isn't just commie Ma**h***)




https://www.mass.gov/doc/pat-frisk/download
View attachment 656187
 
He was charged with it. Does not mean it will stick.
I feel like this is going to be the game the cities who treat firearms rights like diapers are going to play in the wake of the "no more restrictions" game. Sure, charges will be dropped, but h ow many people are going to be able to financially afford the attorney to help get it dropped? How many will be scared from exercising their right as a result of knowing that doing nothing wrong will get them a charge? Its disgusting backhanded politics, using the police as a political enforcement unit and not as police.
 
Is the person free to decline and proceed to the subway, or simply free to leave and not pass the searchpoint?
We took the Salem ferry to Boston last Saturday to enjoy the St. Anthony celebration in the North End. When we walked into the building to purchase our tickets, there was a sign on the door stating that anyone entering the building or boarding the ferry is subject to search. Did not see any searches being conducted, though, in either Salem or Boston. But the warning sign was prominently posted.
 
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