Massachusetts Firearm Storage Initiative

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You're all missing something important here... What the f*** is a "certified" gun safe?

Who the f*** certifies safes? Certified for what?

Also, what happens if some dickwhistle comes in here and rips my safe out of the floor and takes it with them? Now when they torch it open am I responsible for all the crimes they then commit? Christ, I know several instances where exactly that happened.

It also reads like you have to have a some sort of safe for your car for transport....

This is just f***ing awful. You already have to secure guns when not in use and report stolen guns by law. What the f*** is this going to accomplish?
This is going to "accomplish" another side-door ban on guns in Massachusetts.


Yeah. I could see a ‘certified safe’ list, like the hand gun list. Don’t put a safe that costs under 4K on the list. So, sure, you can get a permit. But you gotta have that safe and you have to have a place to put the safe. Probably need to pay to move it each time you move. Basically, it would screw apartment dwellers, young people. Poor people. Every people.
Don't forget homeless people!


Eventually they will drive all of the sane and legal gun owners to other states. Nothing will be left here but soft targets.
That is their goal!
 

citoriguy

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What is this BS surge of state and local governments switching to ranked choice voting? We have pathetically low voter turnout to begin with and all this will do is drive participation rates lower.

Not to mention the effect on an various elections outcomes...
 

Jsfitzgerald85

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Dont have to worry about Heller if you make 2A too expensive to exercise. I do love the "party of the middle class" trying to make something else too expensive for the class they always claim to represent.
 

amm5061

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Dont have to worry about Heller if you make 2A too expensive to exercise. I do love the "party of the middle class" trying to make something else too expensive for the class they always claim to represent.

This ballot initiative violates Heller in my view. Then again, so do the safe storage laws. That's okay, though, because the Constitution is null and void in MA where prohibited by law.
 

Dennis in MA

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Gonna be tough to enforce, that's for sure. Too many things that need to be "certified" and defined before it can even be enforced. It'll be like the pot-shop rules that should have gone into effect quickly and took a LONG time for The State House to hammer out. Same thing here. And it's not a priority so it may just get stuck in no-man's land.
 
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Lloyds of London would be happy to quote you a policy premium. As long as you can afford a hefty second or third mortgage on your house, you should be OK.
You can already get coverage through the NRA and probably many other places for a couple hundred dollars a year for a $1,000,000 policy.
 
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Eventually they will drive all of the sane and legal gun owners to other states. Nothing will be left here but soft targets.
Remember, we are in the state where a politician (I want to say it was Coakley, but it was probably 10 years ago and I don't remember) said in an interview that it was the intent of the people passing the gun control act of 1998 that violent crime would increase. The conversation went something like:
Interviewer: "Despite the fact that gun ownership rates in MA have gone down since the law was passed, violent crimes have gone up sharply."
Politician: "That was the intent."
 
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As Mass likes to ape CA in a lot of things (car emissions, etc.) I would think it would be just the CA DOJ standard, Penal Code Section 23635. This is not nearly as stringent as the standards you listed and most safes sold these days meet it. Actually I would think many NESer's wouldn't think it goes far enough to be worthwhile, the $99 models you get at Tractor Supply suffice. Don't need to be expensive.
Agreed - I think anyone on this board will accidentally already be in compliance in their home. When I lived in a studio and had a tiny closet, I bought a "put together" safe and when I opened up the box I was surprised that it was CA compliant.
 

Waher

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Remember, we are in the state where a politician (I want to say it was Coakley, but it was probably 10 years ago and I don't remember) said in an interview that it was the intent of the people passing the gun control act of 1998 that violent crime would increase. The conversation went something like:
Interviewer: "Despite the fact that gun ownership rates in MA have gone down since the law was passed, violent crimes have gone up sharply."
Politician: "That was the intent."
Cheryl Jacques said something like that. Similarly I watched John Rosenthal have a meltdown at the State House when pepper spray was legalized without a permit for the first time since 1998. They really don't want "self help", victims give them more opportunities to demand more power.
 

Prepper

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Gonna be tough to enforce, that's for sure. Too many things that need to be "certified" and defined before it can even be enforced. It'll be like the pot-shop rules that should have gone into effect quickly and took a LONG time for The State House to hammer out. Same thing here. And it's not a priority so it may just get stuck in no-man's land.
I'm sure they have little problem with requiring certified safes, while at the same time not having certified any of the safes.
 

Rob Boudrie

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You're all missing something important here... What the f*** is a "certified" gun safe?
WTF exactly does "Bonded" mean? What must the bond held by a "bonded warehouse" cover and what are the dollar limits on such a bond?

My guess is "certified" will be left unspecified, but RSC is a "certification" and will almost certainly be accepted as designing a new certification process and testing safes is not an easy task.

There is far smellier crap in this initiative petition than "certification". For example, being held responsible for someone else's crime without being allowed to participate in their trial, call witnesses, sign off on any plea bargain, etc.

What is this BS surge of state and local governments switching to ranked choice voting?
So that multiple D's can run against a single R without concern that vote splitting will hand the victory to an R when most people voted for one of the Ds.
 
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EJFudd

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I'm sure they have little problem with requiring certified safes, while at the same time not having certified any of the safes.
In that MA likes to think of itself as California East, here is the CA DOJ requirement (note at the end that a UL RSC-rated safe is acceptable):

An acceptable gun safe is either one the following:
  1. A gun safe that meets all of the following standards:
    1. Shall be able to fully contain firearms and provide for their secure storage.
    2. Shall have a locking system consisting of at minimum a mechanical or electronic combination lock. The mechanical or electronic combination lock utilized by the safe shall have at least 10,000 possible combinations consisting of a minimum three numbers, letters, or symbols. The lock shall be protected by a case hardened (Rc 60+) drill resistant steel plate, or drill resistant material of equivalent strength.
    3. Boltwork shall consist of a minimum of three steel locking bolts of at least 1/2-inch thickness that intrude from the door of the safe into the body of the safe or from the body of the safe into the door of the safe, which are operated by a separate handle and secured by the lock.
    4. A gun safe shall be capable of repeated use. The exterior walls shall be constructed of a minimum 12-gauge thick steel for a single walled safe, or the sum of the steel walls shall add up to at least 0.100 inches for safes with two walls. Doors shall be constructed of a minimum one layer of 7-gauge steel plate reinforced construction or at least two layers of a minimum 12-gauge steel compound construction.
    5. Door hinges shall be protected to prevent the removal of the door. Protective features include, but are not limited to: hinges not exposed to the outside, interlocking door designs, dead bars, jeweler's lugs and active or inactive locking bolts.
  2. A gun safe that is able to fully contain firearms and provide for their secure storage, and is certified to/listed as meeting Underwriters Laboratories Residential Security Container rating standards by a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory (NRTL).
 

Dennis in MA

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It does. But since when would that bother Maura? [thinking]
Didn't she certify the graduated income tax ballot last time around? And get b-slapped by the SC for it???

I'd like to say that her only job is to ensure that the ballot question SEEMS to be legal. And she's got a pretty broad sense of "legal." So. . . . . .
 

amm5061

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Didn't she certify the graduated income tax ballot last time around? And get b-slapped by the SC for it???

I'd like to say that her only job is to ensure that the ballot question SEEMS to be legal. And she's got a pretty broad sense of "legal." So. . . . . .
Well, legal is what ever she wants it to be, after all. Don't you know she's got the power to blatantly make up laws to suit her whims?
 

EJFudd

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Didn't she certify the graduated income tax ballot last time around? And get b-slapped by the SC for it???

I'd like to say that her only job is to ensure that the ballot question SEEMS to be legal. And she's got a pretty broad sense of "legal." So. . . . . .
Well, legal is what ever she wants it to be, after all. Don't you know she's got the power to blatantly make up laws to suit her whims?
Yeah, I don't think Maura has a real big problem with "legal" or "Constitutional" as long as it benefits her or her leftist party's agenda. Just look at how she treats the illegal alien invasion problem to see how much she respects actual laws. [thinking]
 

1919FAN

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In the jewelry business that the family owns the safes are TRTL30x6 rated which means torch and tool resistance for 30 minutes the x6 is all 6 sides depending on your insurance and building sometimes you can get away with a TL15.
 

voidoid

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I believe they still need to gather 80k signatures by Dec 4. Is there a tracker for number of signatures gathered, or do we just hear about it after Dec 4?
 

Ben Cartwright SASS

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One thing GOAL mentioned was There is also language stating that gun owners would need to purchase a “device to secure weapons while in transit in a motor vehicle”. What exactly are they talking about here? Once again, no definition

What the F does this mean? A "safe" bolted to the car? Can you CC in the car?
 

CatSnoutSoup

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I believe they still need to gather 80k signatures by Dec 4. Is there a tracker for number of signatures gathered, or do we just hear about it after Dec 4?

You could ask a signature collector directly, they will be easy to recognize, just look for someone with a clipboard walking through a graveyard.

:emoji_tiger:
 

Rob Boudrie

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"jewellers lugs"? WTF are those?
I think they are referring to the lugs on the hinge side of the safe that fit behind the door opening when the safe door is closed, securing even if the hinges are cut or torched off. It may be found in the same edition of the dictionary as "zoobow".
 
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Cheryl Jacques said something like that. Similarly I watched John Rosenthal have a meltdown at the State House when pepper spray was legalized without a permit for the first time since 1998. They really don't want "self help", victims give them more opportunities to demand more power.
Many people carried pepper spray without a permit. Purchased it out of state and carried it concealed. Maybe a handful got caught and prosecuted. It was usually an "add-on" charge after they were arrested for another offense. When I purchased two rifles and a shotgun in NH, I was told that I would have to supply a "Massachusetts State Police approved gun lock". I purchased a three-pack of inexpensive trigger locks, the dealer installed them on the firearms, we did the federal form and background check. Then I was on my way home. Where those locks really approved by MSP? Probably not.
 
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I think they are referring to the lugs on the hinge side of the safe that fit behind the door opening when the safe door is closed, securing even if the hinges are cut or torched off. It may be found in the same edition of the dictionary as "zoobow".
Ok, those would be the 3 inactive bolts on the right side of our BassPro Redhead safe. The three active locking bolts are on the left side. Thanks for the explanation.
 
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