Mass shooting @ Baptist church Sutherland Springs, Texas

Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
596
Likes
343
The Dems will keep mentioning this as another opportunity for a national AWB. Some knucklehead was on Laura Ingrim's show last night spewing his crap and Laura and Ken Starr did an awful job of defending our side
Saw it. You are being nice saying "knucklehead". He was Igor Volsky from Guns Down America. All he wants is "high cap mags and AR's banned". To him, that would be areally good start. He totally avoided Laura's question on how to "collect" these banned items. Wonder if he would volunteer to be first in the door for a confiscation? Probably not in his lofty paygrade I would guess.

Mark Fuhrman was the other individual in the debate. Not a great job... but did ask how several hundred million mags would be collected? Again no answer, plenty of deflection.

Otherwise, pretty squishy debate. Igor really liked to talk about how Scalia spoke about reasonable restrictions and that roads have speed limits. The guy had nothing, but when those debating him don't take a hard line, looks poor.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
3,576
Likes
743
Location
Northern Connecticut
Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
The whole background check thing is dumb. Does anyone really think this guy would have said "Well the NICS check said I can't buy a gun from the store, I guess my plan to kill people is foiled..." ?

Had he not been able to get his rifle, does anyone think that maybe he might have just rolled a couple of home-made pipe bombs into the church? As said here and so many other places, he wanted to kill people and the rifle was the most expedient thing on hand but denying that to him would not have dissuaded him by any means. He also could have driven a truck through the front door and set the place on fire.

BTW, did I hear correctly that the friendly shooter who hit him twice might be charged with something ???? I sure hope not.
 

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
72,237
Likes
35,670
The whole background check thing is dumb. Does anyone really think this guy would have said "Well the NICS check said I can't buy a gun from the store, I guess my plan to kill people is foiled..." ?
I agree with this too, but the whole incident shows it to be twice as stupid as originally thought- not only does it not block on that front; but in the weird stupid ****ing corner case that it was designed to do something- it FAILED miserably, LOL.

Actually this entire thing is a graphic episode of "Why the general public should never, ever trust the government to protect them from danger". In this incident the government failed

-WRT his service the .gov probably failed at least once, if not possibly multiple times, incarcerate this POS. Strike one.

-Guy escapes looney bin thing, gov does nothing. Strike two.

-Guy buys guns because some government lackey forgot to put shit in a computer, or this simply never happened because his "conviction" was on the edge and not quite at the bar for DQ. Strike three.

Although in the third case, as you correctly state- it probably wouldn't have mattered anyways- particularly given that the felony trap of "prohibited person trying to buy a gun" = Jail is almost never enforced (if someone looks at NICS confirmed denials # and correlates the denial # to a number of gun cases where someone went to prison, unless the buyer has an open warrant on them or something. (which adds an extra, easier to convict felony to the pile), I doubt that number is anywhere near the number of confirmed denials. It's probably a fraction of a percent. So even if this guy DID get flagged by NICS, the odds of him actually being arrested for an attempt are probably lost in the noise.... (at least if someone argued that a violent PP getting thrown in jail could have stopped something, thats at least slightly credible... but this literally almost never happens in reality. ) All of this compounds into - "NICS is just feel good bullshit. " like the rape scanners on the airplanes, etc. It's just a very early form of security theater that even in the NRA participated in, in a vain attempt to make morons "feel good" about "doing something" about "stopping bad guys from getting guns" etc.

I know you know this - but others reading may not know that BATFE doesn't really prosecute straws and PPs attempting to buy firearms at any statistically meaningful rate. If you start digging into the raw numbers, there enforcement appears to basically be a joke. Federal prisons are not filled with tons of people who tried to straw for someone, nor are they filled with prohibited persons whose offense was attempting to buy a handgun as a prohibited person...

I guess we might call that STRIKE FOUR against .gov bullshit. [laugh]

-Mike
 
Last edited:

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
72,237
Likes
35,670
Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
The whole background check thing is dumb. Does anyone really think this guy would have said "Well the NICS check said I can't buy a gun from the store, I guess my plan to kill people is foiled..." ?

Had he not been able to get his rifle, does anyone think that maybe he might have just rolled a couple of home-made pipe bombs into the church? As said here and so many other places, he wanted to kill people and the rifle was the most expedient thing on hand but denying that to him would not have dissuaded him by any means. He also could have driven a truck through the front door and set the place on fire.
I think the deal/reasoning behind the NICS fappers is that the usual "we don't need moar lawz, we should ask the government to enforace the existing lawz!!!!" NRA badge carrying trollop/moron/retard response to this is that, if the laws were actually FULLY enforced in this case, he would have been bagged for one or two felonies for even attempting a buy as a PP, and he would have been incarcerated. Kinda hard to kill a bunch of people from inside federal prison. Or at least he would have to wait several years before executing his plan, etc. This sort of scenario panning out in real life though, is typically a rainbow unicorn fairy tale; and even if he was a PP in NICS, worst that probably would have happened is a denial and that would have been the end of it, despite the fact that he probably just committed at least a couple federal felonies in even attempting to buy the gun(s). Pro RKBA people trying to convert antis by knob-polishing horse shit like background checks is generally a waste of time; because the government has already shown that it cannot even handle the responsibilities presented to it with the existing system never mind one involving "moar laws". Whats that saying? "The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result". And anyone who sits there and tells me "well if they just did a better job of enforcing the lawz" basically needs some duct tape over their mouth- people have been saying that shit since Reagan was in office, and if BATFE was that defective 30+ years ago, does anyone really think things are gonna change? That's like saying Kim Jong Un is gonna stop eating cake and go on weight watchers... or that the Cleveland Browns or the NY giants are going to turn things around and go to the Superbowl this year.... all things which are not realistically happening. [laugh]

BTW, did I hear correctly that the friendly shooter who hit him twice might be charged with something ???? I sure hope not.
It's rural TX, that will never happen. Outside of him giving a statement to the kopsch, I doubt he is even being "investigated" for any wrongdoing.

-Mike
 

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
72,237
Likes
35,670
The Dems will keep mentioning this as another opportunity for a national AWB.
That's cute, but it's not happening- The metrics and the memetics of this particular event don't fit their narrative; the fact that a citizen eventually intervened and likely saved a lot of lives is something they don't want to have to talk about. If we were talking about 50-100 toddlers getting smoked in NYC (or some other moonbat enclave here) the narrative would be completely different and you'd be hearing that drum for months instead of a week or less.

Even if an AWB renewal is fronted I doubt if its going to get much support outside of hard core gun hating invulnerable district moonbats in congress. The dem party is undergoing a shit-storm right now and the smarter ones know that waxing about gun control is not going to help them fix their problems. I am waiting for that "moment" when one of them snaps (say a southern democrat) and just tells their "comrade" that is talking about gun control to just shut the **** up. I am hoping these DNC leaks and all that scandal corrodes them such that they have to face the fact that, nationally, they will need the support of middle america and you don't get that by shitting on gun owners.

-Mike
 
Rating - 100%
2   0   0
Joined
Jun 20, 2013
Messages
16,424
Likes
10,592
Location
Southern NH
It's rural TX, that will never happen. Outside of him giving a statement to the kopsch, I doubt he is even being "investigated" for any wrongdoing.

-Mike
I'm not saying you are wrong, but do you understand how things in regards to police and prosecutors work in rural Texas?
 
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Aug 19, 2014
Messages
2,777
Likes
277
Location
South Coast MA

Heathen

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
369
Likes
316
Location
MA
That's cute, but it's not happening- The metrics and the memetics of this particular event don't fit their narrative; the fact that a citizen eventually intervened and likely saved a lot of lives is something they don't want to have to talk about. If we were talking about 50-100 toddlers getting smoked in NYC (or some other moonbat enclave here) the narrative would be completely different and you'd be hearing that drum for months instead of a week or less.

Even if an AWB renewal is fronted I doubt if its going to get much support outside of hard core gun hating invulnerable district moonbats in congress. The dem party is undergoing a shit-storm right now and the smarter ones know that waxing about gun control is not going to help them fix their problems. I am waiting for that "moment" when one of them snaps (say a southern democrat) and just tells their "comrade" that is talking about gun control to just shut the **** up. I am hoping these DNC leaks and all that scandal corrodes them such that they have to face the fact that, nationally, they will need the support of middle america and you don't get that by shitting on gun owners.

-Mike
I would agree except the democrats have doubled down on stupid and are trying to go even further left. They even elected several open socialists/communists yesterday.
 

MachineHead

NES Member
Rating - 100%
65   0   0
Joined
Nov 12, 2014
Messages
8,301
Likes
3,500
Location
Central MA
Nothing is going to happen to this guy in this situation. The cops have called him a hero, TX AG has called him a hero, Gov. Abbot has called him a hero, NRA has called him a hero, President Trump has praised him.

Stephen Williford and Johnnie Langendorff are already lauded as heroes and perfect examples of people being in tune with what went down and being certain of what was going down before acting.
 

Boris

Son of Kalashnikov
NES Member
Rating - 100%
21   0   0
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Messages
19,397
Likes
15,726
Location
Back from Motherland
I would agree except the democrats have doubled down on stupid and are trying to go even further left. They even elected several open socialists/communists yesterday.
well they can't admit why Illary lost, so their approach is to communist even harder. This may not happen in other states by MA moonbats may step up letting their frustration out.
 

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
72,237
Likes
35,670
I'm not saying you are wrong, but do you understand how things in regards to police and prosecutors work in rural Texas?
I'm guessing that there's usually a lot of corruption and bullshit, but here we have a guy that just shot a terrorist more or less (one that JUST killed like 26 people) and didn't put anyone else in danger in the process of doing so; the PR ramifications of local .gov shitting on that guy would be too much for them to deal with.

-Mike
 

Ben Cartwright SASS

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
1,994
Likes
780
Location
Massachusetts
I'm guessing that there's usually a lot of corruption and bullshit, but here we have a guy that just shot a terrorist more or less (one that JUST killed like 26 people) and didn't put anyone else in danger in the process of doing so; the PR ramifications of local .gov shitting on that guy would be too much for them to deal with.

-Mike
+1
 

LoginName

NES Member
Rating - 100%
1   0   0
Joined
Mar 4, 2006
Messages
17,925
Likes
8,426
It's rural TX, that will never happen. Outside of him giving a statement to the kopsch, I doubt he is even being "investigated" for any wrongdoing.

-Mike
Probably not too far off from reality...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
1,165
Likes
206
When will Americans get MAD enough to stand up and realize it's their RIGHT and RESPONSIBLE to PROTECT their family's Democratic party has blood on its hand that won't wash off
 
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
1,096
Likes
390
Location
Sunshine state
Yep

They seem to allow some truth out there, for instance we still don't know the round count by Paddock in Vegas, seems like a simple thing to count brass, but in Texas it was reported 450 rounds fired.
Trump had an interesting comment the other day in S. Korea when they were asking about "extreme vetting" for firearms purchasing, saying something to the effect we shouldn't talk about vegas incident. I found the comment interesting.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Sep 30, 2008
Messages
1,165
Likes
206
Sen: Warren wants to take away your right to protect your family! Look in your family's eye and tell you don't care about them anymore, because that's what you are saying when you support gun control. GO AHEAD LOOK IN THEIR EYE tell them you don't care
 

Ben Cartwright SASS

NES Member
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
Apr 28, 2009
Messages
1,994
Likes
780
Location
Massachusetts
I am amazed at how many people of facebook are saying that rather than fight back in a situation like this you need to run away. That mother who gave her life to try to save her 4 kids (2 died by the POS) didn't run away.
If you run away while some dirtbag is shooting babies I hope you can live with yourself.

I was military during Vietnam and hope in a situation like this I would remember my training and experiences and my oath to protect that has no expiration date
 

cams

NES Member
Rating - 100%
18   0   0
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
4,927
Likes
14,378
Location
Boston
Sen: Warren wants to take away your right to protect your family! Look in your family's eye and tell you don't care about them anymore, because that's what you are saying when you support gun control. GO AHEAD LOOK IN THEIR EYE tell them you don't care
Who exactly are you yelling at? Us? Seriously, you sound a little unhinged here.
 

connor

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Apr 5, 2017
Messages
522
Likes
253
Who exactly are you yelling at? Us? Seriously, you sound a little unhinged here.
A little?

There’s enough grammatically wrong with his posts here to write him off as “off the deep end”. Let alone content.
 

mibro

NES Member
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
Joined
Mar 4, 2013
Messages
13,057
Likes
11,068
Location
Mass.
A little?

There’s enough grammatically wrong with his posts here to write him off as “off the deep end”. Let alone content.
Cut him some slack. It's alcohol plus syntax confusion. He's not yelling at us.
 

AHM

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 30, 2013
Messages
6,853
Likes
3,917
Again, some need to reread Lautenberg. Not every DV case automatically makes you a pp. It does if you had counsel or had a jury trial. I’m not sure that covers UCMJ panels, which aren’t quite the same as juries. That kind of distinction would need to be litigated, and I’m not sure it ever has been.
I also blame the civilian prosecutors who didn't bother to bring domestic violence charges in state courts for breaking his child's skull, etc.

The state should have lined up for a piece of him after the court martial, like the Airplane movie passengers lining up to smack some sense into the woman having a panic attack. It's not like double jeopardy applies.
[HR][/HR]
The Air Force never entered his disciplinary record into the record. That's how he fell through the cracks.
wonder how many others they failed to enter.
I don't assume it was laziness or overwork on some clerk's part.

I won't be surprised if some base lawyer/officer didn't promulgate the process to register convictions in NCIC.

Heck, I fear it'll turn out that some pinhead erected a Jamie Gorelick-style firewall that deliberately kept convictions from being registered according to law. We are talking about the Obama administration, after all. I can just imagine some SJW complaining that NCIC registration of discharges for drug offenses, etc. were harshing employment prospects of discharged offenders, and that data entry should be stopped.
[HR][/HR]
In a way. But NICS isn’t going anywhere. And the fact remains that it would have/should have worked in this case, if Airman Snuffy hadn’t been feeling lazy that day. I think we’ll get more mileage out of the argument that existing laws are enough, which they are. More than.

My concern? The dozens/scores/hundreds of other Court-martial convicts that have also slipped through various cracks, and who’ll be spending this week buying lots of guns with false 4473s because they now think they might pass NICS. And I’m sure many will, before the USAF IG figures out the fix.

Those guns will be in the wind forever. Love NICS or hate it, this is precisely the situation it exists to prevent. And it would, if everyone was doing their simple job.
You know how there's a dribble of folks who show up on NES law subforums to ask how they can work around their old DUI/DV/... FPP status?

Well, get set for a new stream of people reporting their renewal just got denied because the military has been frantically catching up on conviction data entry, and now NICS has a record of that 1960's post-boot camp bar fight broken up by the MPs, etc...

(I wonder what military offenses don't have a max sentence above a year?)
[HR][/HR]
Church shooter escaped mental health facility after attacking wife
It's almost like the shooter was trying to set a new record for the number of paragraphs of 18 U.S.C. 922 (d) simultaneously violated.
 

Horrible

NES Member
Rating - 100%
16   0   0
Joined
Mar 1, 2009
Messages
11,652
Likes
3,441
Location
NOLA
I am amazed at how many people of facebook are saying that rather than fight back in a situation like this you need to run away. That mother who gave her life to try to save her 4 kids (2 died by the POS) didn't run away.
If you run away while some dirtbag is shooting babies I hope you can live with yourself.

I was military during Vietnam and hope in a situation like this I would remember my training and experiences and my oath to protect that has no expiration date
This is what society has indoctrinated in us and incentives us to do. Not surprised you would see that shit on Faceplant

"We don't encourage self help" to quote Marsha
 
Rating - 100%
3   0   0
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
34,410
Likes
18,535
Location
PREM
It's not wiped . It's locked. And is is current police procedure to do that to preserve the evidence. You can also assume that if the guy had a cell phone the logs have been dumped and a scan of the cell tower locations is being done to track hi movements. Believe it or not it's much faster and more effective than sending a hundred LEO's knocking door to door asking "do you remember seeing this guy?"
Flashback on an old movie, Crocodile "That's not a knife. THIS is a knife!" Dundee.

Couple scenes sprinkled through the movie showing aborigines with cell phones, watches, etc.

Even rednecks have cell phones these days...
 
Top Bottom