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MA: Identifying Pre-Ban Glock Mags

Since this is about as clear as mud, how would a prosecutor ever go about attempting to prove that a given mag is post-ban, especially considering that Glock themselves will not testify to it? LE-only marked mags are a no-brainer - illegal; double-cutout mags are also quite clearly illegal. But everything else seems to fall into a gray area - square vs slated notch, high or low markings, etc.

They'll ostensibly bring in some kind of expert witness (for example, some random, anti-gun PD detective that has substantial firearms knowledge or whatever) that is willing to testify that they believe a magazine is postban, and why it is, etc, etc. Assuming, of course, that they're willing to go that far. These people do exist and some of them do have extensive knowledge, and some of them have the ability to speak/write in such a way that to a layperson they would appear pretty credible; then again there are used car salesmen that are pretty credible too- just think of all the terrible legal advice people parrot at the range and at gun shops every day; it is parroted in such a manner that is believable to most. I think the biggest possibility/danger of this happening is if say the DA throws a half dozen charges
against someone, and something happens which poses a high likelihood of invalidating most of the charges except the AWB charge, then the DA might decide to go full retard in a vain effort to try to pad their win-loss record because the AWB crap is the only thing left hanging
that hasn't been shot down.

Part of the problem with researching legal strategy on this topic is that as a generality, AWB charges are uncommonly RARE. I don't have the exact numbers but for every 100 gun cases MA courts deal with, I would be very surprised if AWB charges appeared in more than like 10 of these cases. Even in that subset, by the time the person pleas out or the case goes to trial, AWB charges often magically get dropped, my guess is because the defendant's lawyer says something like "Uhh, DA so and so, you know that stuff is bullshit, right, and I can shoot 100 holes in most of it in about 5 minutes, let's skip the dog and pony show, and focus on the charges against my client that actually matter, unless you wanna get embarrassed in court. " ) It is worth noting, though, that in a lot of these cases the person is still convicted of some disabling felony, so it sort of makes the whole worrying thing worthless anyways... if this state wants to kill you legally, it will do so, and it will get away with it, unless you have gobs of money laying around to afford the best attorneys or you have some very high level political connections. Welcome to the Banana republic. )

The sad reality of all of this, though, is that the absolute biggest risk in MA is not having enough money to fend this shit off. Then it won't matter one iota whether you are ACTUALLY right or wrong, they will give you a plea on a platter, and you will suck for it, and you will like it- because unless you have gobs of money laying around, you're probably just going to want to avoid prison and possibly maybe not go completely bankrupt. (and possibly run the risk of going bankrupt AND still losing in court anyways with some kind of disabling conviction which might have jail time. ) Most of these plea deals that don't involve a violent act involve little or no jail time in exchange for probation and an "F is for felon" stamp on your forehead. The DAs in this state make it easy for someone to suck for a plea. The whole thought of it makes me wonder if there are any countries one can repatriate to that don't have "prohibited person" bullshit and still allow guns.

ETA: For those who will suggest I am "fearmongering" just look up Greg Girard, AKA MTBS guy.

http://www.fortliberty.org/gregory-girards-worst-nightmare-comes-true.html



The state threw a bunch of garbage charges against him, most of them were dropped, but they still managed to legally turn him into a "nutbag felon" because he had a "silencer" and shot a few rounds into a bullet trap in his attic. [rolleyes] Such a menace to society. [rolleyes]

-Mike
 
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That prosecutor is a smoke. I would go in front of judge if it meant seeing her.

Just have a dozen "military ammunition containers" and I think she'll charge you. Great job by the Manchester PD 'getting the guns off the street' [rolleyes]

Note to self, do not under any circumstances marry a shrink who works in Cambridge. It's till death do you part or until she calls the PD on you and slaps you with a restraining order.
 
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I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here but I have a few questions. I came across some glock mags for sale exactly like in post #1 marked And dated 9/13/94. Why would it be considered ban if it's stamped with the date? Everything else screams pre ban, especially the notch hole up towards the top of the follower, as well as the shape of the line. I have attached two pics the gentlemen sent me. I'm sorry if this is a stupid question but I haven't found an answer describing why (but could have missed it within these 49 pages). So this may be a good thing to add to this thread.
 

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I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here but I have a few questions. I came across some glock mags for sale exactly like in post #1 marked And dated 9/13/94. Why would it be considered ban if it's stamped with the date? Everything else screams pre ban, especially the notch hole up towards the top of the follower, as well as the shape of the line. I have attached two pics the gentlemen sent me. I'm sorry if this is a stupid question but I haven't found an answer describing why (but could have missed it within these 49 pages). So this may be a good thing to add to this thread.

See where it says

"Restricted LE/Mil only"

That was put on there because they are post ban mags.
 
I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here but I have a few questions. I came across some glock mags for sale exactly like in post #1 marked And dated 9/13/94. Why would it be considered ban if it's stamped with the date? Everything else screams pre ban, especially the notch hole up towards the top of the follower, as well as the shape of the line. I have attached two pics the gentlemen sent me. I'm sorry if this is a stupid question but I haven't found an answer describing why (but could have missed it within these 49 pages). So this may be a good thing to add to this thread.

See where it says

"Restricted LE/GOVT only"

That was put on there because they are post ban mags.

Mags would have to be made before 13 Sep 1994.

Those are definitely, without a doubt a felony in this POS state called MA.
 
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See where it says

"Restricted LE/GOVT only"

That was put on there because they are post ban mags.

Mags would have to be made before 8 Sep 1994.

Those are definitely, without a doubt a felony in this POS state called MA.

Right about those mags.

Wrong about the date. It is 9/13/94 - made ON or BEFORE that date is pre-ban. HOWEVER, Fed Law dictated that all post-ban (9/13/1994-9/13/2004) be marked "Restricted LE/Govt Only". So any such marked mags are defacto POST-Ban and illegal in MA.
 
Right about those mags.

Wrong about the date. It is 9/13/94 - made ON or BEFORE that date is pre-ban. HOWEVER, Fed Law dictated that all post-ban (9/13/1994-9/13/2004) be marked "Restricted LE/Govt Only". So any such marked mags are defacto POST-Ban and illegal in MA.


I just realized I used the wrong date and came back to correct it.
 
So my question is should I worry? Seems there isn't a way to really tell. My mags don't say LEO only on them, I'm sure they're new from NH or something but I can't see any markings to suggest otherwise. I even compared one I got in ME, couldn't see any differences.

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The legal liability is on BOTH, but they will simply deny selling you the gun with post-ban large cap mags, leaving you holding the bag (10 year felony/mag).
If I read this post right, if you're not licenced and caught with one of these post ban magazines you get fined? What's the fine for having the permit and getting caught with one? This crap is so confusing!

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If I read this post right, if you're not licenced and caught with one of these post ban magazines you get fined? What's the fine for having the permit and getting caught with one? This crap is so confusing!

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Read my quote that you posted. 10 years in prison is the potential penalty.
 
Right but it says whoever not being licenced? That's the confusing part, or am I an idiot Haha. Should have studied law lol

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Licensed under the provisions of section 122, which is the section regarding issuing licenses to "sell, rent or lease firearms, rifles, shotguns or machine guns, or to be in business as a gunsmith". In other words, gun dealers are exempt from the mag capacity limit.
 
Licensed under the provisions of section 122, which is the section regarding issuing licenses to "sell, rent or lease firearms, rifles, shotguns or machine guns, or to be in business as a gunsmith". In other words, gun dealers are exempt from the mag capacity limit.
Ah that makes sense. Thanks man!

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If I read this post right, if you're not licenced and caught with one of these post ban magazines you get fined? What's the fine for having the permit and getting caught with one? This crap is so confusing!

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It doesn't matter if you're licensed or not on an AWB charge. If you're not exempt (LE, or other very limited exemptions which I wont bore you with here because they don't apply to you, if they did you wouldn't be asking this) you can get charged with possession of postban LCAFD. I will mention however, that it is uncommonly rare to get charged with this, but it does happen. Now having said that, there is another charge, that is more frequently applied... "LCAFD without a license". This is what most bad guys get hit with because its easy to prosecute (guy without license + LCAFD in his possesion, of any kind, regardless of its age = conviction) that charge doesn't apply when an LTC holder is in play. That particular law governs ANY LCAFD, and has nothing to do with the AWB at all.

BTW any "fines" are not a problem. The problem with either of these is that they are felonies, and are disabling ones at that. (loss of gun rights for life, if you actually get convicted). Worse yet, since MA has no criminal expungement facility in its legal system, it's extremely difficult to overturn such a conviction or erase it later on.

That said, if you were to compile a list of felonies gun owners in MA can run afoul of, this one is somewhere near the bottom of the list. There are others like safe storage/transport laws and MGL 269-10J (the school ban), DUI/drug convictions, and restraining orders. Those are all prosecuted/charged at an exponentially higher rate. In no way am I saying it is OK to break the law here- I just think that when people harp on this issue its retarded, and while they're busy harping about stupid crap like "mag provenance", they're likely ignoring the things far more likely to cause them problems. Right now I'm 110% sure that there's some knucklehead out there that thinks he's "safe" because he bought an ancient, shitty U notch glock mag but thinks its just fine to throw his loaded gun under the seat of his car or leaves a loaded gun on his nightstand when he's not even at home... but I digress...

ETA: Technically a restraining order (209A) isn't a felony but the effect is the same as long as the RO is in effect. Some guys get stuck in douchey situations and they end up being disabled for years until it finally gets vacated.

-Mike
 
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It doesn't matter if you're licensed or not on an AWB charge. If you're not exempt (LE, or other very limited exemptions which I wont bore you with here because they don't apply to you, if they did you wouldn't be asking this) you can get charged with possession of postban LCAFD. I will mention however, that it is uncommonly rare to get charged with this, but it does happen. Now having said that, there is another charge, that is more frequently applied... "LCAFD without a license". This is what most bad guys get hit with because its easy to prosecute (guy without license + LCAFD in his possesion, of any kind, regardless of its age = conviction) that charge doesn't apply when an LTC holder is in play. That particular law governs ANY LCAFD, and has nothing to do with the AWB at all.

BTW any "fines" are not a problem. The problem with either of these is that they are felonies, and are disabling ones at that. (loss of gun rights for life, if you actually get convicted). Worse yet, since MA has no criminal expungement facility in its legal system, it's extremely difficult to overturn such a conviction or erase it later on.

That said, if you were to compile a list of felonies gun owners in MA can run afoul of, this one is somewhere near the bottom of the list. There are others like safe storage/transport laws and MGL 269-10J (the school ban), DUI/drug convictions, and restraining orders. Those are all prosecuted/charged at an exponentially higher rate. In no way am I saying it is OK to break the law here- I just think that when people harp on this issue its retarded, and while they're busy harping about stupid crap like "mag provenance", they're likely ignoring the things far more likely to cause them problems.

-Mike
That's what it seems like to me, a "secondary" offense kind of thing. I'm breaking the law then they see that, I'd get hit with it. I doubt very much if I had a poat ban magazine at the range anyone would cause a fuzz. Still not something I want to deal with. I'm only just now finally able to tell the difference with the Glock magazines, it's not easy. AR ones are far more easy to differentiate.

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I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here but I have a few questions. I came across some glock mags for sale exactly like in post #1 marked And dated 9/13/94. Why would it be considered ban if it's stamped with the date? Everything else screams pre ban, especially the notch hole up towards the top of the follower, as well as the shape of the line. I have attached two pics the gentlemen sent me. I'm sorry if this is a stupid question but I haven't found an answer describing why (but could have missed it within these 49 pages). So this may be a good thing to add to this thread.

LOL, those mags in the pic are the absolute worst, because they are incontrovertibly post ban, the old federal AWB required postban magazines be stamped in that way. Under the old federal law basically it said they couldn't convict someone unless those markings you see were there. Unmarked mags were to be taken as preban at face value. MA has no such proscription/protection in its version of the AWB.

-Mike
 
This is why I label my prebans accordingly.

77f654f73ec2693bebb9e0cde6c1c3ed.jpg


-JR
 
That's what it seems like to me, a "secondary" offense kind of thing. I'm breaking the law then they see that, I'd get hit with it. I doubt very much if I had a poat ban magazine at the range anyone would cause a fuzz. Still not something I want to deal with. I'm only just now finally able to tell the difference with the Glock magazines, it's not easy. AR ones are far more easy to differentiate.

If you can 100% tell pre-ban from post-ban Glock mags, Glock USA has a job for you . . . because even they can not tell with absolute certainty!! That's a fact you can take to the bank. [Exceptions are metal front cut-out or dual mag release indentations. Those are all definitely post-ban.]
 
If you can 100% tell pre-ban from post-ban Glock mags, Glock USA has a job for you . . . because even they can not tell with absolute certainty!! That's a fact you can take to the bank. [Exceptions are metal front cut-out or dual mag release indentations. Those are all definitely post-ban.]
Yeah outside of those 2 things, you definitely can't tell Haha. Stupid MA LOL

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Would it be safe say that if you purchase magazines that look like the first one in the original post you're good because they are certainly pre ban, or is even that a stretch
 
Would it be safe say that if you purchase magazines that look like the first one in the original post you're good because they are certainly pre ban, or is even that a stretch

Anything with a U notch is guaranteed to be old shit and way preban. Anything beyond that, not so much, but there are a ton of known preban square notch, too, but they get harder to identify, and most of the identification is based on hearsay. If you're that afraid, carry 10 round cripplemags and call it a day instead.

-Mike
 
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