There are reasons behind it- not super common but not rare either. Everyone has their own process.
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M1 Garand Megathread
- Thread starter ridleyman
- Start date
Mike 53
NES Member
Right. But it needs to be on the rifle. Just loose/not assisting to steady your hold.
Most of us will leave the sling on the M1 and tighten it up so that it doesn't flap around. I can post a pic later. The way I hold mine there is 4 layers of leather plus the shooting glove between my hand and the stock. This keeps my thumb away from the op rod handle. One time practicing with no sling nor glove I splattered the end of my thumb like a tomato and completely split my thumbnail in the process. That hurt a little.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
FWIW, CMP changed the rule mandating a sling must be on for offhand, so not required but I recommend it.
I think CMP dropped that rule for GSMM, though it may stand for high power.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
wait a minute.Most of us will leave the sling on the M1 and tighten it up so that it doesn't flap around. I can post a pic later. The way I hold mine there is 4 layers of leather plus the shooting glove between my hand and the stock. This keeps my thumb away from the op rod handle. One time practicing with no sling nor glove I splattered the end of my thumb like a tomato and completely split my thumbnail in the process. That hurt a little.
FWIW, CMP changed the rule mandating a sling must be on for offhand, so not required but I recommend it.
Did I miss that you're the sinister sort?
Every time I need to put my sling back on, I rewatch this video (posted by our own @PatMcD , I believe). Then I store it with parade sling. I assumed this was the way we want to have it for standing, but wanted to make sure. It sounds like I was on the right track.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V80JyfZ4gBQ
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Most of us will leave the sling on the M1 and tighten it up so that it doesn't flap around. I can post a pic later. The way I hold mine there is 4 layers of leather plus the shooting glove between my hand and the stock. This keeps my thumb away from the op rod handle. One time practicing with no sling nor glove I splattered the end of my thumb like a tomato and completely split my thumbnail in the process. That hurt a little.
FWIW, CMP changed the rule mandating a sling must be on for offhand, so not required but I recommend it.
Ooh. That's not Garand Thumb... or is it?
Garand thumb is when you push in an enbloc and the bolt slams shut on your thumb. What I did was way worse and way more stupid, LOL.
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I'm very familiar with Traditional Garand Thumb. Yours sounded like it was more deserving of the Title... Painful for sure.
Seems like you are on the right track. I can post pics later.
Just curious- why sling is mandated be off for standing position? It is where it helps the most to keep aim steady , what was the rationale there?Most of us will leave the sling on the M1 and tighten it up so that it doesn't flap around. I can post a pic later. The way I hold mine there is 4 layers of leather plus the shooting glove between my hand and the stock. This keeps my thumb away from the op rod handle. One time practicing with no sling nor glove I splattered the end of my thumb like a tomato and completely split my thumbnail in the process. That hurt a little.
FWIW, CMP changed the rule mandating a sling must be on for offhand, so not required but I recommend it.
It can be on or in some cases must be on, but it cannot be used to stabilize your hold. Why? To drive us all batshit crazy, that's why.
Seriously- offhand scores are typically where matches are won. If you have a well dialed-in rifle and loads and decent technique, with reasonable amounts of practice your slow prone and rapid fire scores can be as good as top shooters at Camp Perry Nationals. To have excellent offhand scores requires practicing until you are ass deep in brass, as they say.
For example, at the Camp Perry Nationals Modern Military match last year my slow prone and rapids scores (100 and 98 out of 100) were the same as the #3 overall shooter, but shooting only an 80 in offhand dropped me down the list a bit. The top 4 shooters all had 95 or higher in offhand. For those not familiar with this- imagine using iron sights at 200 yards to sight in on a bullseye that literally looks like the dot of an "i" on top of your sight post, then keeping your shots centered enough to stay within a 7" circle while dealing with strong gusty wind.
it keeps me always wondering, the stuff like that - who and why insists on it. i would never shoot unsupported on a hunt while standing up offhand. it is plain stupid, as after you walk or ski - you are tired, and sling helps a lot.
but, ok, good to know. or not know.
it keeps me always wondering, the stuff like that - who and why insists on it. i would never shoot unsupported on a hunt while standing up offhand. it is plain stupid, as after you walk or ski - you are tired, and sling helps a lot.
but, ok, good to know. or not know.
Hey @paul73 , dat you?
Yep, the Schutzen guys have those underarm hooks and handles on the stock fore ends etc. so the concept of better support for offhand is over a century old or more. Oh wait- even the wheel lock guys from the 1500's used supports, though those guns were heavy as hell. If you ever sell your gun in the above pic, I call dibs. You can keep the support stick...
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
A bunch of us have an older friend / mentor / sometimes nemesis LOL who has similar comments about the rules, though his gripes are more related to equipment configuration. Despite still kicking our asses at your average match some of the more inane rules have driven him to the point that he no longer goes to the regional and national events. He's retired career military and a Vietnam combat vet, plus he was an armorer. He knows better because he was 'there' and has been extremely frustrated with seemingly arbitrary rules that have no basis in combat or any type of military history. He still holds a longstanding record at Camp Perry Nationals.
People need to get over any comparisons to Highpower Rifle competitions and "combat". They are not remotely related. Nobody is shooting back at you. You are not seeking cover to shoot behind.The only goal of Highpower Rifle is to see if you are capable of putting that round in the center of that target within the time limit in the various positions required.
As to the NO use of sling in the offhand position; That's been the rule for over 100 years in every form of rifle competition that utilizes a standing position: Highpower Rifle, Smallbore, Silhouette, etc. You'd have to do some heavy research to find out why they made it a rule back then.
Not necessarily referring to the offhand stuff but equipment oriented rules. I think everyone realizes it's a paper punching game.
I used to get in a gun-shop arguement with the same guy every month or two: he'd argue that Bullseye Pistol shooters were the most useless pitoleros in existence "Seriously! Who stands there and shoots a Pistol with one hand? Where is that ever going to be a skill you need in real-life scenarios?"
I'd have to bring him in off the ledge and say "It has nothing to do with real-life: the game is this; put the bullet in the middle of that target with one hand".
He still didn't get it.
i took my cz457 to test new ammo to 100yds, and then started shooting at a 6" steel plate we have there, offhand standing up, unsupported... damn, either i got old, or something is wrong with my nervous system as i could not stabilize the gun well at all anymore, it kept wondering non stop. i did hit it, of course, but missed also at least half of times, so it quite sucked. probably need way more muscles in the left arm now to keep it steady.Hey @paul73 , dat you?
Yep, the Schutzen guys have those underarm hooks and handles on the stock fore ends etc. so the concept of better support for offhand is over a century old or more. Oh wait- even the wheel lock guys from the 1500's used supports, though those guns were heavy as hell. If you ever sell your gun in the above pic, I call dibs. You can keep the support stick...
A bunch of us have an older friend / mentor / sometimes nemesis LOL who has similar comments about the rules, though his gripes are more related to equipment configuration. Despite still kicking our asses at your average match some of the more inane rules have driven him to the point that he no longer goes to the regional and national events. He's retired career military and a Vietnam combat vet, plus he was an armorer. He knows better because he was 'there' and has been extremely frustrated with seemingly arbitrary rules that have no basis in combat or any type of military history. He still holds a longstanding record at Camp Perry Nationals.
seating down, with sling on the neck, elbows off the table - no issues. and it is a usual hunting sling, not the marine one you put a biceps into.
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Perishable skill. Work at it and you can hit it most of the time, maybe 8 out of 10.
with all the fun and giggles, the scene of blowing up head in the car is a classic gun safety illustration.
Oh, real life...
i see the reaction - but - everyone understands it when you say, a 'pulp fiction rule - do not muzzle me'.
@Mesatchornug , here's how I set up the sling for offhand or 'rest':
I put a small dot with silver Sharpie where I will hook the 'frog' for the main length of the sling. After I hook that, I pull it upwards until close to the sling loop. Then I hook the rear sling section as tight as it will go, within reason.
I put a small dot with silver Sharpie where I will hook the 'frog' for the main length of the sling. After I hook that, I pull it upwards until close to the sling loop. Then I hook the rear sling section as tight as it will go, within reason.
Bone support, not muscle.
i think had a mental block - the biathlon size is a 4.5" at 50yds, and this was a 6" at 100yds. so it explains the struggle, as i do not think i did shoot such sizes at 100 much at all, ever.
a scope on a rifle helps of course, but it explains the wiggles. will need to keep doing it, of course.
it is funny, i do not think i even have now any rifle with a set of traditional iron or sport sights, at all. the rifle you posted above - is it a one from CMP, or your own build? i need to get myself something traditional like that, but in .308.
ps. nope, a tavor still has its original iron sights, but unusable with the prism on it.
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Mesatchornug
NES Member
That's exactly what I remembered/planned. Good. Now I can just screw up everything else.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
M1 rifles can be had in 308. If nothing else, I'm sure @Mountain will tell you you can buy a rack grade and spin on a new barrel...
M1 Garand - Civilian Marksmanship Program
M1 Garand rifles sold by CMP are authentic U.S. Government rifles that have been thoroughly inspected, with a variety of available grades.
thecmp.org
I was just looking there, at expert grade in 308 - show as sold out now. Those rifles will take all usual 308 loads, right? No limits for too hot ones like with original ones?M1 rifles can be had in 308. If nothing else, I'm sure @Mountain will tell you you can buy a rack grade and spin on a new barrel...
M1 Garand - Civilian Marksmanship Program
M1 Garand rifles sold by CMP are authentic U.S. Government rifles that have been thoroughly inspected, with a variety of available grades.
.308 M1 Criterion barrels have become unobtanium for the last couple years...
IDK, there might be a few hanging out in the safe at Large-Marge....
View: https://i.imgur.com/F3s5yvE.jpg
IDK, there might be a few hanging out in the safe at Large-Marge....
View: https://i.imgur.com/F3s5yvE.jpg
Sweeney
NES Member
The problem with M1s and hot loads isn't the barrel or bolt...it's the operating rod. The rod has a 'dog leg' bend making it susceptible to bending out of spec if higher than spec loads are fired.
That's a Bula Defense M14 I built from a kit purchased direct from Bula. Stock is USGI and bought from a NESer. Iron .sights of course. That thing is a hammer. I went to Camp Perry Nationals for the first time last summer. First match, first stage I shot a perfect score in slow prone then only dropped 2 points out of 100 in rapids . First time I used that sling in a match. Ron Brown made it for me and shipped in time for me to use it at Perry. Shooting that thing is one of my 'happy places'.
