List of firearms on Umbrella Policy renewal?

[Rob Boudrie]

You’d be surprised at how people try and disguise pit bull terriers when you ask. American terrier, staffordshire terrier, AmStaf. If someone says terrier that I have never heard of, I’ll ask for more info. I have never heard of a highland terrier so I’d have probably asked too or googled it while on the phone w them.

You need to get out more

 

[groundscrapers]

Yes, and Stored cleaned and lubricated.

 

[MAGA99]

Dogs are #1 actually. Then trampolines. They don’t really care about pools as long as they’re fenced/gated and that you don’t have a diving board or slide

Both times I’ve had to get home owners, the two questions were ‘any pit bulls? Any trampolines?’ I forget what umbrella
Asked but not much and definitely I rely not about guns.

 

[HuntMaine]

Then you’d be committing insurance fraud. <edit> they didn’t ask if you have them in the home, they asked if you possess.

They actually asked if you owned. If they asked about possession I would say no because they would be in another state.

 

[Amputee Marksman]

I was never asked anything about firearms on my homeowners or my umbrella policy.

I was asked about dogs and and they wanted to know if I had any Pits or Rottweilers. I was surprised when they didn't ask me if I had a German shepherd and so I didn't volunteer.

I once had a tenant in one of my properties that put in the trampoline. As soon as I found out that thing was gone. It was a direct violation of the lease and the lady could not understand why I made her get rid of it.

 

[snax]

Dogs are #1 actually. Then trampolines. They don’t really care about pools as long as they’re fenced/gated and that you don’t have a diving board or slide

If my father switches companies... will they inspect or just ask him about his pool slide and during board?
They are 40 years old, no issues.. and the kids would hate to see them go.
He may switch.

 

[Reeg]

There are plenty of providers that don’t ask, in fact this is the first time I have heard it being asked in 20+ years selling insurance

If answering "yes" would affect one's premium, I'd really like to know where their actuaries got the data to justify this adjustment.

 

[Buck F]

They actually asked if you owned. If they asked about possession I would say no because they would be in another state.

Nice rationalization. Plenty of people own things in other states but hey, you do you. Don't be surprised when you have a claim denied or coverage dropped because you lied on an insurance application.

 

[EJFudd]

Nice rationalization. Plenty of people own things in other states but hey, you do you. Don't be surprised when you have a claim denied or coverage dropped because you lied on an insurance application.

Also remember that it's an umbrella policy which is 99.9% about liability. Doesn't matter where the potential liability threat is. It only matters that you could get sued because of it because you are the owner.

 

[Buck F]

If my father switches companies... will they inspect or just ask him about his pool slide and during board?
They are 40 years old, no issues.. and the kids would hate to see them go.
He may switch.

They'll ask about a pool and if the answer is yes, they'll ask if there's a slide/diving board.

Most companies these days are performing exterior inspections on new properties they insure, they will most likely see if there's a diving board or slide and if there is & the question was answered no on the application they have grounds for canceling for material misrepresentation. If that happens, welcome to the risk pool. What he might consider doing, if he's looking to shop around, is to call around and ask what restrictions various companies have on slides/diving boards. There are some companies that will write them if the size/depth of the pool is sufficient and it's gated/fenced.

 

[Buck F]

Also remember that it's an umbrella policy which is 99.9% about liability. Doesn't matter where the potential liability threat is. It only matters that you could get sued because of it because you are the owner.

Exactly. An Umbrella policy will want to know any and all vehicles, boats, ATVS, homes, condos etc. you own regardless what state they're in, because they'll be providing liability coverage for those. We have lots of clients w/ properties, vehicles, boats, and yes, guns. in other states.

 

[SparkyP]

Is the policy covering these hypothetical firearms from loss? Either way, I'd reach out to your agent and find out why this is on the document. IF they are going to cover these items, are they going to provide [full] replacement cost?

Let me guess, you're living in the PRM... See more firearm questions on forms (recently added) than in free states.

No, it's liability only. And yes, MA.

I have never seen a carrier ask either on the homeowners policy or umbrella. I’m curious who the insurance company is.

<edit> and I’d find a new provider. This is not standard industry practice although it wouldn’t surprise me if more carriers started asking.

Arbella. I'm open to hear of an alternative, as we have homeowners and auto through them. And my commercial auto/liability/property policy as well. I'm not fond of my agent, they got bought out by a big company and service has gone to shit.

I would. And I’d find another provider.

Good options, please?

 

[M1911]

Mapfre writes homeowners and umbrella policies in MA. Our agent has been Cavanaugh Insurance though they were recently bought out by Salem Five Insurance.

 

[Buck F]

If answering "yes" would affect one's premium, I'd really like to know where their actuaries got the data to justify this adjustment.

I suspect it's more of an underwriting question than a rating question i.e. an accept/deny coverage based on the answer vs. add premium. In order to charge rate they have to file the rate with the State Division of Insurance but I'm sure if they could run numbers to justify gun ownership as a rating factor if they wanted to. For example, in MA & many other places, no matter how legit the shooting is you're getting arrested (not covered because that would be a criminal act) and also sued in civil court, which would then bring the insurance carrier into it. Even if they end up denying a claim or you win the lawsuit, the insurance carrier will incur significant legal costs involved determining coverage/defending a civil case so it shouldn't be too hard to come up with some sort of rating rationale. The pro 2A community likes to talk about the number of times firearms are used for legitimate defensive purposes, and if most of those still end up with the shooter getting sued in civil court by the perp... you do the math. Insurers don't care about fault, they care about claims/costs. You can be the most righteous person in the world, but if they're incurring large costs defending you or settling claims, eventually they're not going to want to do that anymore. Things like fire/wind etc. are FAR easier to run the numbers on that liability issues.

 

[Buck F]

No, it's liability only. And yes, MA.

Arbella. I'm open to hear of an alternative, as we have homeowners and auto through them. And my commercial auto/liability/property policy as well. I'm not fond of my agent, they got bought out by a big company and service has gone to shit.

Good options, please?

Arbella?? Really? That's a surprise, and not a good one. I'll be ripped if my carriers start doing that too. I thought I heard rumblings about Amica possibly asking, but I don't think it's on their applications.

Feel free to PM me if you want me to look over your stuff, anything they can write we can usually do too, and none of my carriers have any gun questions (yet). If it's yuge commercial that they have a specialty niche in, maybe not, but most of the run of the mill commercial stuff they do we can also do.

 

[SparkyP]

Mapfre writes homeowners and umbrella policies in MA. Our agent has been Cavanaugh Insurance though they were recently bought out by Salem Five Insurance.

I'm on the Cape, and I want a local agent. I had a great relationship with my previous agent and their company. They've been promoted to VP of something-or-other, so I don't have any contact with them, and their new local folks aren't good at communicating.

Arbella?? Really? That's a surprise, and not a good one. I'll be ripped if my carriers start doing that too. I thought I heard rumblings about Amica possibly asking, but I don't think it's on their applications.

Feel free to PM me if you want me to look over your stuff, anything they can write we can usually do too, and none of my carriers have any gun questions (yet). If it's yuge commercial that they have a specialty niche in, maybe not, but most of the run of the mill commercial stuff they do we can also do.

Yup. I'm not happy about it either. My options are pretty limited down here on the Cape, and the combined policy discounts are worth it, plus only having one agent to deal with. I'll shoot you a PM.

 

[EJFudd]

My ridiculous umbrella policy story: After being with a certain home owner's insurance company (initials: "SF") with zero issues for close to 30 years, the good wife decided we should increase our liability coverage through an umbrella policy. They made us jump through a whole bunch of hoops, but finally issued it. However, on the first re-review of the policy, they asked if I owned any unregistered motor vehicles. I replied that I had an old derelict non-running motorcycle stored in the back of my garage. They said I had to get rid of it or no more umbrella policy. I asked why and they said some sneaky thief could break in, rebuild it, put in a new battery & gasoline, pump up the tires, get it running and drive it out of the garage... thereby hitting and killing a neighbor's child that happened to be playing in my driveway. No, that is not a joke.

Needless to say, I told them that was beyond absurd and they proceeded to cancel the umbrella policy. The strange thing is that they wrote that I cancelled the insurance policy (not them). Weird. But even stranger, they did not cancel my homeowner's policy which also had a substantial amount of liability coverage attached to it.

None of this made any sense at all. Welcome to the strange world of umbrella policies.

 

[Buck F]

I'm on the Cape, and I want a local agent. I had a great relationship with my previous agent and their company. They've been promoted to VP of something-or-other, so I don't have any contact with them, and their new local folks aren't good at communicating.

I understand. We write plenty of people all over MA but stopping by the office wouldn't be very convenient. That being said, and there are plenty on NES who can attest, there's virtually nothing we can't do via email, text, snailmail.

Yup. I'm not happy about it either. My options are pretty limited down here on the Cape, and the combined policy discounts are worth it, plus only having one agent to deal with. I'll shoot you a PM.

Depending how close to the water your home is, that could be a challenge. Some local cape agents may have a specialty facility w/ some carriers who will write coastal for them. Doesn't cost you anything to find out tho.

 

[Buck F]

My ridiculous umbrella policy story: After being with a certain home owner's insurance company (initials: "SF") with zero issues for close to 30 years, the good wife decided we should increase our liability coverage through an umbrella policy. They made us jump through a whole bunch of hoops, but finally issued it. However, on the first re-review of the policy, they asked if I owned any unregistered motor vehicles. I replied that I had an old derelict non-running motorcycle stored in the back of my garage. They said I had to get rid of it or no more umbrella policy. I asked why and they said some sneaky thief could break in, rebuild it, put in a new battery & gasoline, pump up the tires, get it running and drive it out of the garage... thereby hitting and killing a neighbor's child that happened to be playing in my driveway. No, that is not a joke.

I'd have told an underwriter the situation & they'd have written it. They'd have probably told me, given the circumstances, to just leave it off the application since it's just a parts bike/doesn't run. Some of the large national carriers might not have written it, definitely not the direct writers since no one has any authority to do anything, but a local mutual wouldn't have a problem with that.

 

[Buck F]

I think I'm definitely going to write off my NES membership as a business expense this year...

 

[EJFudd]

I'd have told an underwriter the situation & they'd have written it. They'd have probably told me, given the circumstances, to just leave it off the application since it's just a parts bike/doesn't run. Some of the large national carriers might not have written it, definitely not the direct writers since no one has any authority to do anything, but a local mutual wouldn't have a problem with that.

Well, the story is even a bit weirder than I wrote: The derelict motorcycle was blocked in such that the underwriter's story about the thief being able to access it, rebuild it and ride it out was physically impossible unless he happened to own a moving company too. They knew all that, but it didn't matter.

Just plain weird that they would do that to a 30-year zero-claims customer.

 

[Knob Creek]

My homeowners asked. I just stated that any firearms I may have are locked in a Massachusetts approved safe.

 

[RumRunner]

I understand. We write plenty of people all over MA but stopping by the office wouldn't be very convenient. That being said, and there are plenty on NES who can attest, there's virtually nothing we can't do via email, text, snailmail.

I can attest to this. I'm certainly not in the neighborhood, but am a happy customer and no issues doing all transactions virtually

 

[Mesatchornug]

I can attest to this. I'm certainly not in the neighborhood, but am a happy customer and no issues doing all transactions virtually

 

[Buck F]

Thanks guys!

 

[Buck F]

Well, the story is even a bit weirder than I wrote: The derelict motorcycle was blocked in such that the underwriter's story about the thief being able to access it, rebuild it and ride it out was physically impossible unless he happened to own a moving company too. They knew all that, but it didn't matter.

Just plain weird that they would do that to a 30-year zero-claims customer.

Sounds to me like you need a new provider. Do you go through an agent or direct? Directs generally are more rigid and a good agent can usually overcome a stupid underwriter or move you to another market.

 

[jkelly1229]

Both times I’ve had to get home owners, the two questions were ‘any pit bulls? Any trampolines?’ I forget what umbrella
Asked but not much and definitely I rely not about guns.

Every time ive gotten it its been do you have guns... do you want to itemize what u have in case of fire...

 

[Buck F]

Every time ive gotten it its been do you have guns... do you want to itemize what u have in case of fire...

Maybe on the homeowners policy but not on an Umbrella policy, that's liability only coverage. Even then, it's unusual to see that on a homeowners application although the agent may ask in order to determine if you should itemize a collection in case of theft.

 

[jkelly1229]

Maybe on the homeowners policy but not on an Umbrella policy, that's liability only coverage. Even then, it's unusual to see that on a homeowners application although the agent may ask in order to determine if you should itemize a collection in case of theft.

My bad i misread yeah no go there

 

[EJFudd]

Sounds to me like you need a new provider. Do you go through an agent or direct? Directs generally are more rigid and a good agent can usually overcome a stupid underwriter or move you to another market.

That all occurred at our old place. We had no choice at the time but to stick with that (direct, no agent) company. We lived without the umbrella coverage and survived just fine.