List of firearms on Umbrella Policy renewal?

[M1911]

That all occurred at our old place. We had no choice at the time but to stick with that (direct, no agent) company. We lived without the umbrella coverage and survived just fine.

You never need an umbrella policy until you do and then it’s too late to get one. Most of us who have an umbrella policy will never make a claim. So it is a question of risk tolerance and only you can answer that.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

I recently was helped out by Buck F and have nothing but good to say about him and his agency. Better coverage AND lower cost than what I had before.

 

[EJFudd]

You never need an umbrella policy until you do and then it’s too late to get one. Most of us who have an umbrella policy will never make a claim. So it is a question of risk tolerance and only you can answer that.

Correct. But there was no way we could satisfy our insurance company at the time on that old, non-running motorcycle we were storing. It was get rid of it or no umbrella. Think of it this way: If your insurance company suddenly said "no guns or ammo on your property or no umbrella policy." Would you do it?

 

[M1911]

Correct. But there was no way we could satisfy our insurance company at the time on that old, non-running motorcycle we were storing. It was get rid of it or no umbrella. Think of it this way: If your insurance company suddenly said "no guns or ammo on your property or no umbrella policy." Would you do it?

I'd find a different insurance company.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I suspect it's more of an underwriting question than a rating question i.e. an accept/deny coverage based on the answer vs. add premium. In order to charge rate they have to file the rate with the State Division of Insurance but I'm sure if they could run numbers to justify gun ownership as a rating factor if they wanted to. For example, in MA & many other places, no matter how legit the shooting is you're getting arrested (not covered because that would be a criminal act) and also sued in civil court, which would then bring the insurance carrier into it. Even if they end up denying a claim or you win the lawsuit, the insurance carrier will incur significant legal costs involved determining coverage/defending a civil case so it shouldn't be too hard to come up with some sort of rating rationale. The pro 2A community likes to talk about the number of times firearms are used for legitimate defensive purposes, and if most of those still end up with the shooter getting sued in civil court by the perp... you do the math. Insurers don't care about fault, they care about claims/costs. You can be the most righteous person in the world, but if they're incurring large costs defending you or settling claims, eventually they're not going to want to do that anymore. Things like fire/wind etc. are FAR easier to run the numbers on that liability issues.

Insurance rates are based on statistical claims history, except when government mandates things that go against this - like giving senior citizens a discount on insurance for which they are actually high risk customers; banning sex discrimination in setting driving insurance rates (allowed in many states but not MA). The beauty of multivariate analysis is you don't need to do a mental cause-effect analysis as to what type of client behavior impacts risk - it just falls out of the numbers.

The fact that diving boards, trampolines, and certain dog breeds raise red flags with insurance companies but gun ownership (with the possible exception of storage and the higher theft/value risk) speaks for itself as to the actual risk.

 

[jct61765]

Isn’t it SOP above a certain amount? I think mine is like 15 grand or something, after that id need a “rider”. but i haven’t checked my last homeowner’s.

I have a rider because mine are in excess of$300,000. It went up $500 this year. I think they covered up to $5000. So I had to get a rider.

 

[EJFudd]

I'd find a different insurance company.

And I wouldn't blame you one bit. Unfortunately, we were not in a position to do that at the time.

We have since moved and are dealing with a different insurance company now. Still no umbrella policy as of today, but we hope to be in a position to apply soon.

 

[JDL]

#1 dogs. There is a very large and complete list of dog breeds some you would never guess would be on the insurance list as dangerous.

 

[Dadstoys]

Never been asked.
Find another insurance company.
I don't like lists or trust the people holding them.

 

[Buck F]

#1 dogs. There is a very large and complete list of dog breeds some you would never guess would be on the insurance list as dangerous.

I’m actually seeing the lists getting shorter. Pit bulls, Rottweilers & wolf hybrids are on everyone’s list but then it varies. I have carriers who are now doing German Shepherds.

Other common restricted ones are Dobermans, cane corso, presa canario, Rhodesian ridgebacks, chows & akitas.

I the past I saw airdales & dalmatians on the lists.

 

[Buck F]

Insurance rates are based on statistical claims history, except when government mandates things that go against this - like giving senior citizens a discount on insurance for which they are actually high risk customers; banning sex discrimination in setting driving insurance rates (allowed in many states but not MA). The beauty of multivariate analysis is you don't need to do a mental cause-effect analysis as to what type of client behavior impacts risk - it just falls out of the numbers.

The fact that diving boards, trampolines, and certain dog breeds raise red flags with insurance companies but gun ownership (with the possible exception of storage and the higher theft/value risk) speaks for itself as to the actual risk.

The way they’re getting around the senior discount (which is ridiculous) is to ding you after X years of being licensed. First saw that w Commerce but now others are doing it.

MA is one of the few states that doesn’t allow gender rating although all you’d have to do is check the other box to get around that. Would be funny to do that in states like RI & NY which allow gender rating but who would lose their minds if anyone was ever called out for their convenient gender “fluidity”

 

[M1911]

I’m actually seeing the lists getting shorter. Pit bulls, Rottweilers & wolf hybrids are on everyone’s list but then it varies. I have carriers who are now doing German Shepherds.

Other common restricted ones are Dobermans, cane corso, presa canario, Rhodesian ridgebacks, chows & akitas.

I the past I saw airdales & dalmatians on the lists.

Years back one of our neighbors had a Rhodesian ridgeback. She was one of the sweetest dogs I'd ever met. The first time I met her, she came racing to the end of her driveway, barking ferociously. I was across the street in my driveway. I squated down a bit and spoke gently to her. She immediately stopped barking and trotted across the street to say hello and get some pets, which turned into belly rubs.

 

[HuntMaine]

Nice rationalization. Plenty of people own things in other states but hey, you do you. Don't be surprised when you have a claim denied or coverage dropped because you lied on an insurance application.

But there is no lie so there’s that

 

[Jason Flare]

I think I'm definitely going to write off my NES membership as a business expense this year...

My LTC used to have my company listed, so everything was deductible.

 

[bfm]

I have a USAA umbrella and they have not yet ever asked.

USAA did not ask me how they are stored, but, just like my wife's rings etc, if I want a certain amount of coverage for them, I need to itemize them.

I forget the exact details but up to a certain amount they would more or less take my word, over a certain amount I needed some documentation.

 

[Boarder700]

USAA did not ask me how they are stored, but, just like my wife's rings etc, if I want a certain amount of coverage for them, I need to itemize them.

I forget the exact details but up to a certain amount they would more or less take my word, over a certain amount I needed some documentation.

Yes, that is correct for the general home insurance. But the OP was asking about umbrella for liability.

 

[bfm]

Yes, that is correct for the general home insurance. But the OP was asking about umbrella for liability.

I have an umbrella policy too, but given I put most of this in place a few decades ago, it all runs together.

Appologies for confusing the issue.

 

[Buck F]

Never been asked. I would move mine out of the home for a day and state I have no firearms at the home.

You would still own them.

Then you’d be committing insurance fraud. <edit> they didn’t ask if you have them in the home, they asked if you possess.

They actually asked if you owned. If they asked about possession I would say no because they would be in another state.

They asked if you owned, not where you owned/possessed.

Nice rationalization. Plenty of people own things in other states but hey, you do you. Don't be surprised when you have a claim denied or coverage dropped because you lied on an insurance application.

But there is no lie so there’s that

Keep telling yourself that

 

[M1911]

If you ever need your umbrella policy, then you need it real bad because someone won a million dollar judgment against you. The insurance company will be highly motivated to find some way to deny your claim. Offering up an easy way for the insurance company to deny the claim by lying to them on the application is not a brilliant move.

 

[inerlogic]

You’d be surprised at how people try and disguise pit bull terriers when you ask. American terrier, staffordshire terrier, AmStaf. If someone says terrier that I have never heard of, I’ll ask for more info. I have never heard of a highland terrier so I’d have probably asked too or googled it while on the phone w them.

my German Shepherd self identifies as a chihuahua, and i respect her wishes.

 

[RumRunner]

my German Shepherd self identifies as a chihuahua, and i respect her wishes.

I've been bit my more chihuahua's than GSD's

 

[eboos]

I just got a questionnaire for renewing my umbrella policy. They're asking if I own firearms, and if yes, for a list of items and how they're stored. Is this common practice? I've never seen this before, and don't particularly want to fill it in.

And the box is WAY too small, lol


View attachment 771350

Anyone else been through this?

Clearly this question is being asked as a means of putting you in a higher risk category, like those owning trampolines and ramps. Change your policy. Answer incorrectly, they will happily take your money, but if there is ever an occasion where they would be required to pay they will use the false information as a means to refuse payment.

 

[paul73]

@Buck F is the go to insurance guy he will know.

I dont list any of mine..

I just used his help to move away from GEICO and saved a ton - highly recommend as well

 

[Buck F]

Clearly this question is being asked as a means of putting you in a higher risk category, like those owning trampolines and ramps. Change your policy. Answer incorrectly, they will happily take your money, but if there is ever an occasion where they would be required to pay they will use the false information as a means to refuse payment.

Actually they won't happily take your money; if they find out you lied on an insurance application they'll cancel you for material misrepresentation the first chance they get. They ask the questions to gauge the risk they covering, not to deny paying claims. Some answers are disqualifiers, others are used to rate according to the higher risk. If you own trampolines & ramps, you are a higher risk for a liability claim, why would they pay a claim if they asked you if you had those and you lied about it? Especially since most carriers will decline to write homes with trampolines, ramps, certain dog breeds in the first place.

 

[Buck F]

I've been bit my more chihuahua's than GSD's

We hear this a lot, particularly when we're having the Pit Bull conversations. Yes, Chihuahua's bite a lot, so do beagles (apparently). The difference is chihuahuas & beagles don't do much damage when they do bite.

 

[RumRunner]

We hear this a lot, particularly when we're having the Pit Bull conversations. Yes, Chihuahua's bite a lot, so do beagles (apparently). The difference is chihuahuas & beagles don't do much damage when they do bite.

At one point, not sure if it's still the case, Golden Retrievers were the dog with the most number of bites in the U.S. Due to the large population of them I'm sure, but always thought that was a funny stat seeing as they are so friendly.

 

[HuntMaine]

You would still own them.





They asked if you owned, not where you owned/possessed.





Keep telling yourself that

I do and save a ton of money.

 

[Broc]

I’m actually seeing the lists getting shorter. Pit bulls, Rottweilers & wolf hybrids are on everyone’s list but then it varies. I have carriers who are now doing German Shepherds.

Other common restricted ones are Dobermans, cane corso, presa canario, Rhodesian ridgebacks, chows & akitas.

I the past I saw airdales & dalmatians on the lists.

I want a wolf hybrid.

Dude, I really need to win the megamillions so not only you can help me build the most uninsurable home, but also own the most uninsurable things and pets.

 

[Buck F]

I do and save a ton of money.

A lot of people who commit insurance fraud do... until they don't.

 

[HuntMaine]

A lot of people who commit insurance fraud do... until they don't.

Yet there is zero evidence I ever have done so so there’s that Maura