lifetime FID cards eliminated

It stunned me to read about how Michael Oliveira's case turned out in that article.

But unfortunately for many this article still is news, because there are definitely still people in this state that own guns on expired lifetime FID's. I met one at the range, and he simply doesn't believe that it can expire.
 
Has anybody ever been convicted in a court of law regarding the "expiration" of a lifetime FID? I mean, if the FID was issued for life, and then the government reneges, how to juries and judges feel about this? I would be less than sympathetic of the gov't's case.
 
maee said:
Has anybody ever been convicted in a court of law regarding the "expiration" of a lifetime FID? I mean, if the FID was issued for life, and then the government reneges, how to juries and judges feel about this? I would be less than sympathetic of the gov't's case.
Click to expand...

I think the wording was "valid unless suspended or revoked". The state ... revoked 'em all.

Teaching licenses used to be issued for life to. When they became renewable, no one was grandfathered.
 
GSG said:
But unfortunately for many this article still is news, because there are definitely still people in this state that own guns on expired lifetime FID's. I met one at the range, and he simply doesn't believe that it can expire.
Click to expand...

The terminally obtuse cannot be helped. How does the old fart - excuse me; Fudd - buy his "bullets?"
 
Scrivener said:
The terminally obtuse cannot be helped. How does the old fart - excuse me; Fudd - buy his "bullets?"
Click to expand...

I didn't realize the second amendment required gun owners to regularly buy ammunition.[rolleyes]
 
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Its hard for us gun enthusiasts to imagine, but a lot of gun owners simply have a shotgun under their bed for self defense, which they never look at, or a rifle they grew up with. These are basically the people that fall into this legal trap.

In my opinion, the reason licensed gun owners declined so drastically after 1998 wasn't they most previously licensed gun owners were now ineligible (thus implying that most gun owners were convicted criminals), but rather that it filtered out all of the aforementioned gun owners, who are now criminals.
 
maee said:
In my opinion, the reason licensed gun owners declined so drastically after 1998 wasn't they most previously licensed gun owners were now ineligible (thus implying that most gun owners were convicted criminals), but rather that it filtered out all of the aforementioned gun owners, who are now criminals.
Click to expand...

A valid assessment.
 
Scrivener said:
The terminally obtuse cannot be helped. How does the old fart - excuse me; Fudd - buy his "bullets?"
Click to expand...

He could buy them in CT, RI, NH, ME or VT? Lots of those folks may hunt and only shoot a few rounds/year. If they hunt outside MA, they may well buy their one box of bullets in that other state as well.

Ammo purchases are unregulated in Free America.

------------------

I know of some people that heard the news stories back in 1998 about requiring training, all sorts of BS that the lame-stream media put out there and then decided NOT to bother going thru the hassle to get the new permit. Most likely they still have their guns, just no valid license.
 
I followed some links off that original page, and the story of the District Attorney who lost a revolver during a break-in is quite interesting, too.

Reading between lines, it seems that they can't find FA-10 paper on it, and therefore don't have the s/n to enter into the NCIC stolen gun database. We know that there are legitimate ways to not have an FA-10 on record, and the DA is old enough to fall into one of these categories, but it doesn't seem that he ever lived out of state.

No mention of whether it was trigger-locked when stolen, but he's a lawyer and probably smart enough to know not to admit it if it wasn't.
 
Scrivener said:
How does the old fart - excuse me; Fudd - buy his "bullets?"
Click to expand...

If he's been going to the same gun shop for years, what are the odds that they even check for an FID. I can't tell you the last time I was required to show my LTC for Ammo only purchase in any of the 3 or 4 shops I frequent.
 
Well... as much as "ignorance to the law" can be thrown out there... i can say that I personally know 2 old folks that have "life time" FDIs and had no clue that they were no longer valid...

one of them simply said, " I haven't even seen the guns in years... just have them locked in a closet in the basment. but my card says life time..."

I was actually able to make him understand what the state did.

the other guy insists that his is valid and would challenge it in court... unfortunately, I know how that would turn out just as you all do.

the fact remains, this state made 1,000's of legal gun owners criminals overnight and many of them are still un aware.
 
matt1956 said:
the fact remains, this state made 1,000's of legal gun owners criminals overnight and many of them are still unaware.
Click to expand...

The state did, indeed make "1,000's of legal gun owners criminals overnight." However, it did so over TEN YEARS ago.

The passage of Chapter 180 was not just big news here; it was national news as the anti-gunners hailed it as a victory that would set a standard for the other 49 states.

Moreover, it was a major part of two major races here in MA; Scotty Harshbarger's run for governor and Cheryl Jacques' run for Congress. We are fortunate both lost.

Locally, it was THE big claim to fame Jacques' aide, Angus McQuilken, made in his TWO runs to replace Jacques in the state senate after she left to (briefly) head a gay rights lobby group in D.C. Again, we are fortunate that enough gun owners turned out to elect Scott Brown each time.

In short, anyone who, after ten years, two major elections and two minor ones, still doesn't know their "lifetime" FID expired 8 years ago has been in a cave for a decade or is TSTL.

At least one of the twits you spoke to knows full well the law changed; he is simply choosing to ignore reality. Either way, their situation is of their own creation and they are wholly undeserving of the coddling some here would provide them.
 
What authority did they use to revoke the licenses in the first place? I haven't found anything in the MGL's that says your licenses can simply be revoked.

Chapter 140: Section 129B
(4) A firearm identification card shall be revoked or suspended by the licensing authority or his designee upon the occurrence of any event that would have disqualified the holder from being issued such card or from having such card renewed or for a violation of a restriction provided under this section. Any revocation or suspension of a card shall be in writing and shall state the reasons therefor.


Reasons for denial
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/140-129b.htm
 
You are reading the POST-Chapter 180 statute.

The legislature gaveth and the legislature tooketh away.

Blessed be the name of the legislature.....
 
AMEN

As we all know since when did the legislature need a reason to revoke , or for that matter blatantly break the law.

May they all rot in HELL
 
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Ripach said:
If he's been going to the same gun shop for years, what are the odds that they even check for an FID. I can't tell you the last time I was required to show my LTC for Ammo only purchase in any of the 3 or 4 shops I frequent.
Click to expand...

Yeah, no kidding, same here, the only time they ask for my permit is when I buy a gun. Or maybe the old timer bought millions of rounds of ammo to stockpile in his house in anticipation of the world ending.
 
jcr said:
Interesting, sympathetic article

Are you violating state gun laws?
by Peter Robbins, Cape Cod Today, 10/05/08
http://www.capecodtoday.com/blogs/index.php/2008/10/05/title-125?blog=177
Click to expand...

I personally think that a lot of challenges could go through many levels of appeal. The only way to revoke those cards is to come and collect them.

There are bunches of cases out there in tax about the form ruling over the actual law when the form has contradicted the law. These are based on principles of common law and typical custom. So, I do not know why a crafty lawyer can not say the license is valid.

Bill
 
the_doctor said:
I personally think that a lot of challenges could go through many levels of appeal. The only way to revoke those cards is to come and collect them.

There are bunches of cases out there in tax about the form ruling over the actual law when the form has contradicted the law. These are based on principles of common law and typical custom. So, I do not know why a crafty lawyer can not say the license is valid.

Bill
Click to expand...

A lawyer can SAY whatever they want, but the law is pretty black and white on this.
 

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