So aside from being a liar, you're also unwilling to admit when you're easily verifiably wrong, and lie to yourself and others to cover your mistakes. I've been around NES a long time. This is a new low for you.
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Lets Settle This
- Thread starter Broc
- Start date
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
Good job using a web search and pulling up a random website. By the way, that website advocates incapacitating an animal rather than choosing a shot that is lethal faster. That doesn’t seem very ethical.In soft tissue wounding pathology, “crush” is a specific term used to describe compressing a soft tissue in the path of a bullet/missile until it tears or is pulverized. It can be used synonymously with laceration. It is the same action as an arrow. Even arrows with blades. The only difference is the surface area of the missile crushing the tissue. Less surface area (like a blade) doesn’t require as much force to create that permanent wound channel. Again, in bullet wounding, “crush” is not a blunt force trauma injury. It is a laceration type injury.
If you want to talk blunt force trauma, that’s the type of injury that occurs in the temporary stretch cavity caused by high energy rounds transferring their energy. This blunt force trauma is not what kills a living thing. Most tissues are capable of handling the stretch. It becomes lethal when combined with a fragmenting bullet that then crushes new permanent channels and reduces the tissues elastic properties. The “blunt force trauma” imparted because of the temporary stretch cavity can damage the tissue with progressive muscle tissue necrosis. But that is not going to be very ethical when hunting. That blunt force trauma injury caused by the temporary stretch of a rifle round deceleration will only cause muscle damage that may cause the animal to become prey days or weeks later because it can’t run as fast.
You need to hit the CNS or rapidly bleed out the animal by creating a permanent wound channel through a vital organ. And as long as you penetrate Deep enough, and have a good enough expanding projectile, you’ll have a relatively quick kill. 6.5 or 7.62. Again, 6.5 Swede has been loaded to 6.5 Creed velocities for over a century and has taken plenty of moose, caribou and elk. 308 and 30-06 have taken plenty too. They’re all good cartridges and all capable and ethical if you’re placing your shot properly. Yes, for large game it’s probably better to go bigger on energy to be safe. But it’s downright silly to say 6.5 CM can’t take the same animals that 308 can.
Gunshot Wounds: Ballistics, Pathology, and Treatment Recommendations, with a Focus on Retained Bullets
As the epidemic of gunshot injuries and firearm fatalities continues to proliferate in the United States, knowledge regarding gunshot wound (GSW) injury and management is increasingly relevant to health-care providers. Unfortunately, existing guidelines ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Wound ballistics 101: the mechanisms of soft tissue wounding by bullets - PubMed
The bullet's construction and ballistic behavior within tissue determine to what extent the previously overestimated velocity factor may influence wound severity. The damage produced from temporary cavitation depends on the tensile properties of the tissues involved, and in high-energy injuries...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Dr. Gary Roberts: Basic Wound Ballistic Terminal Performance Facts
You can also go read through other contributions to wounding research by Dr. Roberts and Dr. Fackler, in addition to all the International Wound Ballistics Association publications.
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StevieP
NES Member
.308
For the sheer versatility of it. You can tune it up or down with light, fast bullets, or heavier ones. There are a million different bullets from just as many companies who make tipped or cored or solid or boat tailed or whatever the hell kind of bullet you want so you can dial it in for your gun's barrel length and twist, and for the game you're going after.
Will take anything that walks on the entire North American continent, out past 500 yards.
I care less about accuracy beyond that distance, "ballistic coefficients" or other crap that comes with the newfangled stuff
Edit to add there are far more choices of GUN that shoot .308, too. Everything from small handy truck guns, scout rifles, to larger "chassis" guns, "your grandfather's hunting rifle," milsurp or modern, bolt, semi-automatic (AR) or even lever action, youth models, older to newer, and available for every budget. You may have or want a gun with "soul" which you might not find in a new CM but that walnut stocked one on the used rack in your LGS may speak to you...
For the sheer versatility of it. You can tune it up or down with light, fast bullets, or heavier ones. There are a million different bullets from just as many companies who make tipped or cored or solid or boat tailed or whatever the hell kind of bullet you want so you can dial it in for your gun's barrel length and twist, and for the game you're going after.
Will take anything that walks on the entire North American continent, out past 500 yards.
I care less about accuracy beyond that distance, "ballistic coefficients" or other crap that comes with the newfangled stuff
Edit to add there are far more choices of GUN that shoot .308, too. Everything from small handy truck guns, scout rifles, to larger "chassis" guns, "your grandfather's hunting rifle," milsurp or modern, bolt, semi-automatic (AR) or even lever action, youth models, older to newer, and available for every budget. You may have or want a gun with "soul" which you might not find in a new CM but that walnut stocked one on the used rack in your LGS may speak to you...
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Slight comment about BCs and such. 6.5 CM has less wind drift than 308 well before 500 yards. At all points past the muzzle, the 6.5 CM will be less influenced by the wind. Higher hit probability given a wind uncertainty. Either from mis-reading it or experiencing cross winds etc. Even if it’s just a 2” difference at 200 yards in a 15 mph wind. It’s still more forgiving even at closer ranges.
But, it’s all just a trade space and the 308 is an amazing cartridge for the reasons you mentioned.
but the #8 jug of R16 is now almost $470 plus shipping and hazmat, and varget #8 jugs did not fly up that high in price - last i saw it going for was $348
H4350 is a complete unobtanium. i sold @Broc some of mine, but no idea where he will source any more of it.
i do not see it appearing for sale nowhere in 2023.varget pops up here and there more often now.
and load quantity wise - 6.5CM vs 308 is comparable, 42gr for first, 44-45gr for latter. but overall price wise, though, .308 load is cheaper.
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I got lucky, bought a few pounds after. But all in, I think I only have enough for 1,500 rounds.but the #8 jug of R16 is now almost $470 plus shipping and hazmat, and varget #8 jugs did not fly up that high in price.
H4350 is a complete unobtanium. i sold @Broc some of mine, but no idea where he will source any more of it.
varget pops up here and there more often now.
and load quantity wise - 6.5CM vs 308 is comparable, 42gr for first, 44-45gr for latter. but overall price wise, though, .308 is cheaper.
Which is why I won't use any to develop loads with other bullets.
At least the powders for 460 and 45/70 seem to be easier to find.
I have a #1lb jug of H4350, if you and @Broc want to fight over it, or we can all meet up somewhere inconveniently far away and Ill split it up into plastoc sandwhich bagsbut the #8 jug of R16 is now almost $470 plus shipping and hazmat, and varget #8 jugs did not fly up that high in price.
H4350 is a complete unobtanium. i sold @Broc some of mine, but no idea where he will source any more of it.
varget pops up here and there more often now.
i left myself one #1 can too.
probably not going to use it ever, as i see no point to even invest time into that - as i invested into (small) pile of R16 that will last me years the rate i shoot 6.5CM.
Saw H4350 at Cabelas last two times I was there. Had to push it aside to see if there was any Trail Boss hiding behind it.but the #8 jug of R16 is now almost $470 plus shipping and hazmat, and varget #8 jugs did not fly up that high in price - last i saw it going for was $348
H4350 is a complete unobtanium. i sold @Broc some of mine, but no idea where he will source any more of it.
varget pops up here and there more often now.
and load quantity wise - 6.5CM vs 308 is comparable, 42gr for first, 44-45gr for latter. but overall price wise, though, .308 load is cheaper.
I don't recall but would have remembered if the price was rapey. Picked up some titegroup for a normal price.interesting, i guess people gave up to find anything there enough for it to become available.
what was the price, did you notice at all?
Agnotology
NES Member
Shot placement over everything else. Which is why I use a 93 F-250 with a bull bar.
Tartakovsky
NES Member
I don’t hunt deer but if I did, either 30-30 or 30hate. I have too many calibers as is and 3 different .30 cals is enough for me (30-30, 300 BLK and .308). Been trying to consolidate calibers. (20g, 12g, 22LR, 38, 357, 380, 9mm, 9mm sub, 45, 5.56, 30-30, 300 BLK, 300 BLK sub, 308).
I remember when I was trying to consolidate calibers ... lasted like 2 years until I started reloading.
Trying to consolidate calibers is like trying to keep Reptile in his megathread. It is not happening.
AllaSnackbah
NES Member
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- Sep 11, 2009
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edmorseiii
Navy Veteran
Sure are a bunch of Dylans in here.
Timely videos from Vortex.
Shocking spoiler alert: 6.5 CM is very capable and 308 isn't better. There's no animal that 308 can ethically kill that 6.5 CM can't. And that 6.5 CM can penetrate deeper because of the sectional density, and bullet expansion rates aren't linear between the two. But also, 308 is a great cartridge too, readily available, and can be loaded in a wider range of bullet weights.
What a world! Two cartridges can be good and viable without shitting on one or the other.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbtkDI79izQ
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k72KPIv9Cw
Shocking spoiler alert: 6.5 CM is very capable and 308 isn't better. There's no animal that 308 can ethically kill that 6.5 CM can't. And that 6.5 CM can penetrate deeper because of the sectional density, and bullet expansion rates aren't linear between the two. But also, 308 is a great cartridge too, readily available, and can be loaded in a wider range of bullet weights.
What a world! Two cartridges can be good and viable without shitting on one or the other.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbtkDI79izQ
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2k72KPIv9Cw
chris_1001
NES Member
556USER
NES Member
Communists
i can't believe i have you tell you to prepare your area first, which includes digging a boner hole
chris_1001
NES Member
From bi pod to tri pod…
I have only taken three deer, (all FLA or GA) and two were with . 30-06, and one with 7.62x54r.
One of the reasons why I refused to spend the time to hunt up in MA, was because hunting deer with a shotgun just seemed stupid to me, 15 years ago.
Honestly, other than the 6GT cal you meme-shamed, all are perfectly fine for deer. Why no love for slugs?
One of the reasons why I refused to spend the time to hunt up in MA, was because hunting deer with a shotgun just seemed stupid to me, 15 years ago.
Honestly, other than the 6GT cal you meme-shamed, all are perfectly fine for deer. Why no love for slugs?
