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lawyered up
- Thread starter logan1171
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You unfortunately have two choices. Pay for the lawyer and take your chances (which I won't handicap success in percentages) or wait and let Hightower work it's way through the courts.
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There are two different types of obstacles:
1. Getting a statutory issue removed
2. Getting a chief who may, but does not wish to, issue a license to do so.
And of course, there are cases that consists of both #1 and #2.
The dynamics and strategy for each type of obstacle are substantially different and, as such, there is not much of a comparison between the process of removing a statutory DQ and forcing a chief to issue despite a finding of "unsuitabuility".
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Sorry and I wish we could help you faster but we have a case that is right to carry in court. Simply following that with more cases of the same are just not a good use of precious dollars with which we have to fight with. And this legal process takes TIME. Lots of time. Good luck and let the NES krew know how you make it.
Do ask the lawyer to give you a realistic chance of winning. Not knowing which town you are in, the answer may be obvious as to success, or it may be worth fighting. If you have already moved out of boston, then you may actually be in good shape.
I understand that, which is why I prefaced my post with "I know this is not what you asked." perhaps I should have clarified, but my point was that although our circumstances are a little different, there is a record of success when one fights for their rights here. I know it's an expensive gamble to fight on principle, but win or loose, it's important to challenge this stuff.
I lawyered up...not to have my restriction removed but rather have my license with the restriction expired early so I could get an unrestricted license in the green town I moved to. The Chief in my old town was refusing to expire my existing license, so I saw it as an opportunity to put a percentage of my tax return to use. Well worth it since the Chief (after 3 months) finally decided to play ball and I now have a class A no restrictions in my wallet.
IMO, it may be a wasted effort to lawyer up to have a restriction removed off an existing license because MA law states the licensing authority may place any restrictions on said license as they see fit. Unless you and your attorney can prove in court that you have a "need" to carry a concealed weapon you are probably out of luck. The easier route is having the existing license expired and moving to a green town which will issue you an unrestricted license, or simply moving to a free state.
IMO, it may be a wasted effort to lawyer up to have a restriction removed off an existing license because MA law states the licensing authority may place any restrictions on said license as they see fit. Unless you and your attorney can prove in court that you have a "need" to carry a concealed weapon you are probably out of luck. The easier route is having the existing license expired and moving to a green town which will issue you an unrestricted license, or simply moving to a free state.
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A) A lawyer doesn't have to take the issue into to court to win on this. B) You can get lucky and get the right district court judge who will issue it if you take it into court.
It may well be a wasted effort in the end, but it is not a 100% guaranteed to fail either.
ETA: For anyone who would like to take this issue to state court on their own dime, Comm2A would be happy to file an amicus with the court in your case. We have one written up and it would provide your attorney with some case law references as well in order to speed their case research up a bit.
It may well be a wasted effort in the end, but it is not a 100% guaranteed to fail either.
ETA: For anyone who would like to take this issue to state court on their own dime, Comm2A would be happy to file an amicus with the court in your case. We have one written up and it would provide your attorney with some case law references as well in order to speed their case research up a bit.
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Ben Cartwright SASS
NES Member
I may be in the minority, I have an unrestricted LTC from non-green town, my youngest son went to get his LTC-A and I told him to request a H&T for his first license, I didn't want him carrying with the attendant risks (mainly lawsuits if you ever use it)
I also told all my boys that once they get an LTC they have to be squeeky clean, no drinking and driving etc as even one DUI and you lose your LTC for an awful long time.
When they have moved out of the house and are out of College go for an unrestricted license if they are under my roof they dance to my fiddle and I don't need the hassle, if they want an All Lawful Purposes then move out and pay for everything themselves.
I also told all my boys that once they get an LTC they have to be squeeky clean, no drinking and driving etc as even one DUI and you lose your LTC for an awful long time.
When they have moved out of the house and are out of College go for an unrestricted license if they are under my roof they dance to my fiddle and I don't need the hassle, if they want an All Lawful Purposes then move out and pay for everything themselves.
lancecolonel
NES Member
i would love to know the details about what your dq was and approx cost/length of legal fight. i am not finding as much info about such matters as i had hoped in these threads. feel free to pm me if you don't wish to share in the forum. thank you.
JGreen
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Wow also.
MisterHappy
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If one is applying for an LTC, one is presumably an adult....
While if your adult child is living at home, the "my house my rules" argument does have some sway, I'd argue that an Unrestricted LTC is actually a safer piece of plastic - you don't have to carry, but you'll not get jammed up for using a H&T inappropriately.
While if your adult child is living at home, the "my house my rules" argument does have some sway, I'd argue that an Unrestricted LTC is actually a safer piece of plastic - you don't have to carry, but you'll not get jammed up for using a H&T inappropriately.
lancecolonel
NES Member
^second that
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Even if they move out, the risk does not end. If you are a typical parent you will spend you home equity, retirement accounts and other savings to hire world class legal counsel if your kid ever faces a serious criminal charge. Just part of the territory of being a parent.
So you would prefer your kid get killed/wounded/injured by some thug, rather than pay for their legal bills? Or do you not trust your 21+ year old's judgement enough that he would know when defending himself was appropriate?
Apparently we're all missing something here.
I just know I'd feel pretty offended if I was in his shoes- "Son, you can get a firearms license, but I am ordering you to bend over and take it from the man instead of any notional of asserting your rights" You're essentially telling him to go out, and on purpose, contract "LTC aids". (A restricted license often comports itself as a disease- when he moves out, he might not be able to get the IA to dump the license if he moved to a better town, under those circumstances. )
-Mike
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Under what legal theory would you be liable if your adult child, using his own gun, was involved in a suit?
He is at LESS risk of a suit than you, because these are generally contingency fee based. (Yeah, an attorney may file suit against someone with no assets just to make a point, but that is more the exception than the rule). If your son was involved in an incident, counsel's first actions would be "let's see how deep the pockets are" and most likely decline to accept the case on a contingency fee basis.
Of course, if you let the adult offspring carry your gun, or share the same safe (so it can be argued you control access, and thus need to know when to deny this adult access to his own property) you create a path to allow you to be a defendant in a suit.
I can't speak for Ben, but I know when they lived back on the Ponderosa, Adam, Hoss and Little Joe were walking around in open carry mode and were always getting into jams that Ben had to bail them out of.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
Maybe since he has moved to Mass (the home of Ben's first wife and Adam's mother) he has decided that it just isn't worth it, or maybe Hop Sing is putting something other than coffee beans in his coffee this days...who knows?I fully support Ben's right to impose whatever rules he wishes on anyone living in his home, especially a child, minor or adult. I totally get it.
From my very limited perspective it would appear that Ben has chosen this course of action based on one of two concepts:
Concept 1: Since apparently his sons are not sufficiently gainfully employed, he is responsible for their financial support, and he fears having to pay legal fees if they are involved in a shooting (things were different back in Virginia City when he essentially had Sheriff Coffee in his pocket). It may be that they have gone through the money he gave them when he sold the Ponderosa or that the residuals from all the reruns have finally stopped. In any event I can see his point from that perspective.
Concept 2: Ben feels that his sons are not really mature enough or capable enough to carry a concealed firearm. This may allude to some of the antics that they were involved in back in Nevada. If this is the case, then Ben would be more prudent if he said that the boys couldn't get any license. If he has serious questions about their reliability and judgement, then it should be no guns and no LTC's under his roof.
There may be a third concept involved which is beyond my ability to fathom, but I am not a 1960's Hollywood television script writer.
While Ben is usually a wise old patriarch, I think this time his judgment is a little cloudy.
Ben being a trusty SASS guy probably is a fan of Wyatt Earp (I know a different series on a different network) but people wax on about the movie "Tombstone" or the old Hugh O'Brien series (at least my generation) but frequently overlook that Wyatt was one of the earliest proponents of gun control in the Old West. Remember you had to check your shootin' irons in once you reached the city limits of Tombstone, no carry allowed and no CCW either. It may be that Ben, Wyatt and for all we know Matt Dillion were really anti-gun, at least to the point that they thought that there should be "reasonable restrictions" on totin' a shootin' iron.
Then again maybe Ben is just a cranky old coot like me. Perhaps he recalls and lives by the famous quote by George Bernard Shaw: "It's a shame that youth is wasted on the young." Maybe he has imposed these "rules" on the boys simply because he can...which, like it or not, after a certain age becomes one of life's little pleasures cuz when you're a geezer like Ben and me, and have to get up six times in the night to pee, and your hair on top migrates to your nose and ears, and what you used to be able to do all night, now takes all night to do...messin' with the boys esp Adam, Hoss and Little Joe, really isn't such a bad thing. Hell, if they were my sons, I'd probably make 'em have a curfew
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Mark L.
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Winner!
tuna
NES Member
Back on topic - I went to the guy who issues the licenses and handed him a letter I wrote for the Chief asking my restrictions be removed. I don't know if the Chief ever saw it or not, but a couple months later, they took my neutered license and handed me an unrestricted one. No lawyer, no problems. My license was still good for about 3 years, too.
Bump. I'm soon going to be going for my first LTC in a town where, from what I can gather, they ALWAYS give out restricted for first time and unrestricted upon renewal. My friend says I should fight it just on principle. I don't want to have to wait 6 years to conceal...
The GOAL website talks a lot about appealing but somehow you don't seem to hear about people doing it that often?
Any update on this?
The GOAL website talks a lot about appealing but somehow you don't seem to hear about people doing it that often?
Any update on this?
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