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Is open carry allowed for police in civilian clothes?
- Thread starter Xringer
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![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
I do this except my badge says "Colgate Cavity Patrol."
I OC when hiking in western MA pretty often, sometimes along the road as well. My roomate was OCing when we were walking my dog. Statee drove by, looked at him, we waived, and the dude keot driving.
Closer to Boston, who knows. I Stopped worrying long ago. Im sure its been noticed either for printing or reaching for stuff. Havent been shot by the 5-0 yet.
Mike
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
Closer to Boston, who knows. I Stopped worrying long ago. Im sure its been noticed either for printing or reaching for stuff. Havent been shot by the 5-0 yet.
Mike
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
Laderbuilt
NES Member
Why where you worried or fearful please tell me your kidding.
If I see three armed men I would ask my self three things
1: What's there NES screen name.
2: What kind if firearm is
3: who the **** cares
dcmdon
NES Member
In CT, I don't OC, but do what I call casual carry. That means an owb holster with a full sized Glock and only a T shirt or polo over it. Depending on the shirt, the end of the slide may hang below the hem. I print like crazy, but amazingly enough, I've never even had anyone look twice at me.
One thing. if you are going to OC or carry in such a way that it is obvious you are carrying to anyone who actually looks for that, it is imperative that you carry in some kind of a retention holster.
While a level 3+ Galco would be nice, it doesn't need to be all that. A simple thumb break will do.
One thing. if you are going to OC or carry in such a way that it is obvious you are carrying to anyone who actually looks for that, it is imperative that you carry in some kind of a retention holster.
While a level 3+ Galco would be nice, it doesn't need to be all that. A simple thumb break will do.
dcmdon
NES Member
I would call the cops in a second.
But not for the reason as the OP. If I can't carry openly, then a non-uniformed cop sholdn't be able to carry openly.
A simple call to 911 of a MWAG might remind said cop that most of us live in a state with severely diminished rights.
Cops need to live by the same rules that the rest of us live by. Holding him to the same standards of disarmament as the rest of us when he is off duty is a start.
Since most cops are neither better trained, more proficient, or better vetted than the average shooting enthusiast, I don't see why there should be any difference.
Remember, MA LEOs only have to qualify once a year. That is the only time many of them ever shoot.
Don
But not for the reason as the OP. If I can't carry openly, then a non-uniformed cop sholdn't be able to carry openly.
A simple call to 911 of a MWAG might remind said cop that most of us live in a state with severely diminished rights.
Cops need to live by the same rules that the rest of us live by. Holding him to the same standards of disarmament as the rest of us when he is off duty is a start.
Since most cops are neither better trained, more proficient, or better vetted than the average shooting enthusiast, I don't see why there should be any difference.
Remember, MA LEOs only have to qualify once a year. That is the only time many of them ever shoot.
Don
dcmdon
NES Member
You do understand that in reality it is not an open carry state, or at least it depends on the attitude of your issuing authority. If you need me to explain why, let me know.
Don
Don
Kicker96FS
NES Member
Believe me, I'm fully tracking why no one makes it a habit to OC in MA, absolutely. But you calling the cops on it, what does that prove? You think if those guys are on the job, and we're called out for OC in a subshop, that their issuing authority is not going to back them? And possibly discipline them? Continue dreaming if you think that's gonna happen and/or you'd be getting back at the cops and forcing the to live by the same rules as everyone else. But of course it would be another way to post about cops getting away with something you can't do blah blah. Best way to handle it? Do nothing and eat your sub.
dcmdon
NES Member
Well, then maybe I'll explain briefly.
GPP - if you are from CT and you piss off a LEO OCing. The worst that will happen is that you are arrested for breach of peace, then they will drop the charges. If you are unlucky, the DESPP will pull your pistol permit. You will then have a 6 month wait before going before the BFPE, who will order the DESPP to give you back your PP. And everyone lived happily ever after.
But even that scenario is unlikely since most PDs have QUITE LITERALLY "gotten the memo" that OC is legal in CT. Nobodys been arrested in a couple of years for OCing in CT despite the fact that there are hundreds who do it every day.
Torrington, CT PD Memo on OC: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/43e7d924-8fda-40a7-abc6-f5351641c7a8
State Police Memo on OC at a 2A rally: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Details/7fd5472e-3f90-4b4a-84c7-ea345e5bb3a0
Wethersfield, CT PD Training Memo on OC: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/25f781f1-6ff0-40a2-a1db-2911f4abb7d0
State Police Training Memo on OC of hand guns AND LONG GUNS:
http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/a034b530-1221-425d-a99f-53af710ff219
Like CT, MA does not have any law prohibiting OC. However, in MA you must have a LTC or FID to even POSSESS firearms. Also MA has given the issuing authority broad latitude (nearly infinite authority) in who they deem suitable and not suitable. The result of these two facts is that if you piss off someone while OCing and it gets back to your chief, he can pull your LTC. At that point you lose all of your guns, if you don't get them out of the state in time.
So you have lost your property without due process. You can not own or possess firearms in MA. And you have nearly no recourse.
The guns could be held by a nice PD and allowed to be transferred to a FFL who could sell them for you.
A nasty PD will send them to a bonded warehouse, where storage fees will accrue at such a rate that by the time you get the ok to get them, you will owe the BW more than the guns are worth.
I hope that you can see there is a huge difference between the two states as to the advisability of OC.
Don
p.s. the only open question now in CT re OC is whether OCing provides grounds for a Terry stop. At this point in time the answer is yes. This is based on a judges opinion in the Goldberg civil trial. However, while there is a statute requiring someone carrying a handgun to carry his PP, there is no statute requiring you to actually show it to a LEO. Stay tuned for more on that as the memos cited above all see to reference the officers right to ask for ID. Some people in CT have refused to show their PP and have been arrested. Sadly, in all cases, charges were dropped or the person plead down to an infraction, so no case law has been made.
GPP - if you are from CT and you piss off a LEO OCing. The worst that will happen is that you are arrested for breach of peace, then they will drop the charges. If you are unlucky, the DESPP will pull your pistol permit. You will then have a 6 month wait before going before the BFPE, who will order the DESPP to give you back your PP. And everyone lived happily ever after.
But even that scenario is unlikely since most PDs have QUITE LITERALLY "gotten the memo" that OC is legal in CT. Nobodys been arrested in a couple of years for OCing in CT despite the fact that there are hundreds who do it every day.
Torrington, CT PD Memo on OC: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/43e7d924-8fda-40a7-abc6-f5351641c7a8
State Police Memo on OC at a 2A rally: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Details/7fd5472e-3f90-4b4a-84c7-ea345e5bb3a0
Wethersfield, CT PD Training Memo on OC: http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/25f781f1-6ff0-40a2-a1db-2911f4abb7d0
State Police Training Memo on OC of hand guns AND LONG GUNS:
http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/a034b530-1221-425d-a99f-53af710ff219
Like CT, MA does not have any law prohibiting OC. However, in MA you must have a LTC or FID to even POSSESS firearms. Also MA has given the issuing authority broad latitude (nearly infinite authority) in who they deem suitable and not suitable. The result of these two facts is that if you piss off someone while OCing and it gets back to your chief, he can pull your LTC. At that point you lose all of your guns, if you don't get them out of the state in time.
So you have lost your property without due process. You can not own or possess firearms in MA. And you have nearly no recourse.
The guns could be held by a nice PD and allowed to be transferred to a FFL who could sell them for you.
A nasty PD will send them to a bonded warehouse, where storage fees will accrue at such a rate that by the time you get the ok to get them, you will owe the BW more than the guns are worth.
I hope that you can see there is a huge difference between the two states as to the advisability of OC.
Don
p.s. the only open question now in CT re OC is whether OCing provides grounds for a Terry stop. At this point in time the answer is yes. This is based on a judges opinion in the Goldberg civil trial. However, while there is a statute requiring someone carrying a handgun to carry his PP, there is no statute requiring you to actually show it to a LEO. Stay tuned for more on that as the memos cited above all see to reference the officers right to ask for ID. Some people in CT have refused to show their PP and have been arrested. Sadly, in all cases, charges were dropped or the person plead down to an infraction, so no case law has been made.
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Like I said before, I am absolutely tracking as to why no one in MA OC on a regular basis. The incident the OP listed took place in MA, not CT. So we are talking about calling the cops on the guys in MA who are possibly cops, or seals, or citizens. And if they are cops, then they should have to abide by the same rules as everyone else etc ( even though you aren't from MA ). So if you're from CT and you're OC , it's no biggie because the cops in CT got the memo. But because cops in MA only shoot once a year, you're unsuitable if you're OC. Even though many MA residents posted here about OC in MA with no problems at all. I get it, you don't like cops.
dcmdon
NES Member
I have no problem with cops. I have several friends who are cops.
I simply believe that cops should live by the same laws they are enforcing on the rest of us. Equal treatment under the law. Its as simple as that.
In fact, because I know cops, I've seen first hand the subtle corruption that being a cop allows. It can be as simple as a "professional courtesy" to a moving violation.
The worst I've ever experienced was going out with a relatives friend who was a state trooper. We were all going to a common friend's stag party. The trooper offered to drive in his cruister. That was great. Free transportation. I got hammered, safe in the knowledge that I was not driving. It wasn't until the end of the night that I realized the trooper who was driving was also hammered. I suggested we call a cab. He assured me that as long as he didn't hit a school bus full of children, he wold be fine as far as a DUI was concerned.
Then there is the parking situation. I was recently at the Burlington mall and saw a cop getting out of his SUV with his family, parked right in front, in the fire lane. He left to go shopping with his car parked in the fire lane.
Or let me remember the CT trooper who tailgated me around an on ramp 5' off my bumper because he was in a rush. He was out of uniform, his light bar was stowed and he was wearing a Patriots hat. Its safe to say, he wasn't on his way to an accident.
Again, they should simply live by the same laws as us. Very basic.
I simply believe that cops should live by the same laws they are enforcing on the rest of us. Equal treatment under the law. Its as simple as that.
In fact, because I know cops, I've seen first hand the subtle corruption that being a cop allows. It can be as simple as a "professional courtesy" to a moving violation.
The worst I've ever experienced was going out with a relatives friend who was a state trooper. We were all going to a common friend's stag party. The trooper offered to drive in his cruister. That was great. Free transportation. I got hammered, safe in the knowledge that I was not driving. It wasn't until the end of the night that I realized the trooper who was driving was also hammered. I suggested we call a cab. He assured me that as long as he didn't hit a school bus full of children, he wold be fine as far as a DUI was concerned.
Then there is the parking situation. I was recently at the Burlington mall and saw a cop getting out of his SUV with his family, parked right in front, in the fire lane. He left to go shopping with his car parked in the fire lane.
Or let me remember the CT trooper who tailgated me around an on ramp 5' off my bumper because he was in a rush. He was out of uniform, his light bar was stowed and he was wearing a Patriots hat. Its safe to say, he wasn't on his way to an accident.
Again, they should simply live by the same laws as us. Very basic.
I assure you, on many levels, cops are absolutely their own worst enemies, and some are corrupt and stupid and thieves etc. absolutely I agree. But if you are a cop in MA, not CT, and you are off duty, and open carrying ( or on duty in plain clothes for that matter), you are not breaking the law. Please keep in mind, that I have said multiple times, I fully understand why no one makes a habit of OC in MA? So calling the cops on the cops ( assuming they were cops) gets you nowhere, and calling the cops on citizens OC in MA ( assuming they were civilians) gets them jammed up and possibly unsuitable, that's OK? Here's a question, have any of your cop friends " fixed" some sort of matter for you? Just curious. Now I have to go to the cape and pick up a SPAS from flotter390.
In this case the OP doesn't know if they were cops. You could be calling 911 on someone exercising their right to OC.
MisterHappy
NES Member
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I think that the point of calling the cops, would be to get the "MWAG issue" stirred up - "Today, in East Treestump, police responded to a call about a man with a gun at a local Charbucks. It turns out it was a police officer, off duty."
Ideally, the news piece would continue with "openly carrying a firearm, with a license, is not against the law."
Ideally, the news piece would continue with "openly carrying a firearm, with a license, is not against the law."
Are we seriously going back and forth what state is better MA or CT![[banghead]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/045.gif "Bang Head [banghead]")
. Open carry if you want who gives a ****. End of story case closed. If you are scared of having your LTC yanked then you have the option to ccw.
. Open carry if you want who gives a ****. End of story case closed. If you are scared of having your LTC yanked then you have the option to ccw.
to the OP:
there is no law in MA restricting anyone to concealed carry. Carry open if you want but if your COP is a dick, be prepared to have your LTC yanked 'for suitability' reasons. He can yank it for any reason whatever.
Some chiefs don't care, some do. You take your chances, depending on where you live.
End of thread.
there is no law in MA restricting anyone to concealed carry. Carry open if you want but if your COP is a dick, be prepared to have your LTC yanked 'for suitability' reasons. He can yank it for any reason whatever.
Some chiefs don't care, some do. You take your chances, depending on where you live.
End of thread.
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