I guess an age old NES debate is settled

[Rob Boudrie]

Can somebody define "civil disobedience" for me.
Does it include stopping traffic?

It is a retroactive label applied only if your cause comes out the winner.

 

[enbloc]

 

[Quantavious G]

Hitler culled the brown shirts from the dregs of Germany because he needed a private force to create mayhem. I believe they morphed into the SA and eventually the SS.

Einsatzgruppehfuhrer Maura Healey, SS

 

[Climbnsink]

When they start torching and looting throwing bricks and molotov cocktails. Open fire with live ammo. Do that a few times and that will end that.

No it won't. The people throwing bricks are unwittingly doing the bidding of powerful subversives. Gun them down and there will be more. Brick throwers are easy to replace. The Trump administration knows who the subversives are, what they will do about it, and if we will ever hear about it, I have no idea.

 

[not new guy]

I wonder if the people running around killing cops and throwing bricks at them and shit have considered that their actions might make cops even more jumpy and aggressive.

 

[Bonesinium]

Last night, I saw fed agencies and cops moving on PEACEFUL protesters. Smack in the middle of the mix were NG and active duty soldiers. Posse commitatus be damned. So here you have it. The military WILL follow orders, period. All your little boogaloo dreams are out the window. Just because you don't like them doesn't make the protesters any less Americans. So, what makes you think they won't light YOU up when/if the time comes? We are SOL.

A couple things. Huge difference between National Guard and Active Duty with respect to this and posse Comitatus.

Posse Comitatus does not apply to the National Guard. In fact, using the National Guard is a Consitutional power (article one, section eight and article four, section four).
Was there actually active duty military involved?

There use against peaceful protesters is disturbing if true. That video showing them with police when they shot marker rounds at the family on their own porch is reprehensible. But there has been massive amounts of violent riots where people are neither peaceful nor protesting.

 

[Picton]

Hitler culled the brown shirts from the dregs of Germany because he needed a private force to create mayhem. I believe they morphed into the SA and eventually the SS.

Einsatzgruppehfuhrer Maura Healey, SS

You've got the chronology wrong; the SS and SA were rivals. The SS was the private force, the SA less so. The SS purged the SA on the Night of the Long Knives.

Baker already called out the NG the other night, and by all accounts they did a good job and it was a wise precaution. Credit where credit is due.

Posse Comitatus does not apply to the National Guard. In fact, using the National Guard is a Consitutional power (article one, section eight and article four, section four).
Was there actually active duty military involved?

I made this point and asked this question earlier. I still await an answer.

I do believe there is likely confusion in the media, the Twitterverse, and the NESosphere about the differences among all these organizations, especially given Trump's threat to use AD and the anomalous position of the DCNG that cleared Trump's way to the church yesterday.

But no, I think frenchman is in error. I do not believe any AD assets are currently doing riot control anywhere. On alert? Practicing the stomp 'n' drag? Sure. Doing things against US citizens? No. Not yet, anyhoots.

 

[556USER]

What is needed is law that makes the use of lethal force to protect property from theft or arson in times of civil unrest a justified action.

That store owner who shot someone protecting his store in the recent riots was arrested and will be judged in a calm air conditioned and fully secured courtroom long after the riots are a memory.

Yup, and judged by a jury of suburban soccer moms and random people from the hood.

 

[beaker]

Massive wealth redistribution. Over-representation for non-whites in all positions of power. The subjugation of white males. A future without consequence or inconvenience. Nothing short of the complete destruction of our society.

They can just move to South Africa, which is what they want to turn the USA into. F**kers.

 

[beaker]

Will get very interesting if Trump uses the Insurrection Act and puts Federal military troops on the streets. Overall I'm torn on this. On one side I'd love nothing better then to see some looters/rioters get a good beat down. On the other side civil disobedience has been the cornerstone of who we are as a people and how this country was founded. Tough perspective.

Civil disobedience is one thing, beating people, shooting cops and burning down everything is not civil disobedience. These people are dangerous, opportunistic thugs, many trained and financially supported by people like George Soros, not Rosa Parks.

 

[BigTimber]

View attachment 361925

I’ll raise you one Gen Grant.

 

[enbloc]

View attachment 361974
I’ll raise you one Gen Grant.

WINNER!

 

[boatman]

Civil disobedience is one thing, beating people, shooting cops and burning down everything is not civil disobedience. These people are dangerous, opportunistic thugs, many trained and financially supported by people like George Soros, not Rosa Parks.

You think the people doing the rioting and looting are organized with an agenda for anything political? Soros? I seriously doubt that. Not anyone is giving them anything. Spend some time in the projects.

Their organization is a) lets get some free stuff, b) let's see what damage we can do just for fun and that is about it. They don't care about society, they don't vote, they don't give a crap about your life at all. You have 2 entirely different sets of people, the daytime protesters and the nightime looters. The former I root for, the latter I say shoot for.

 

[falcon123]

Will get very interesting if Trump uses the Insurrection Act and puts Federal military troops on the streets. Overall I'm torn on this. On one side I'd love nothing better then to see some looters/rioters get a good beat down. On the other side civil disobedience has been the cornerstone of who we are as a people and how this country was founded. Tough perspective.

This is more than civil disobedience. It's anarchy orchestrated by the dems. Anyone out after curfew will be shot.

 

[falcon123]

You think the people doing the rioting and looting are organized with an agenda for anything political? Soros? I seriously doubt that. Not anyone is giving them anything. Spend some time in the projects.

Their organization is a) lets get some free stuff, b) let's see what damage we can do just for fun and that is about it. They don't care about society, they don't vote, they don't give a crap about your life at all. You have 2 entirely different sets of people, the daytime protesters and the nightime looters. The former I root for, the latter I say shoot for.

You can't be more wrong. These scum are very well organized and funded. They need some lead poisoning. Have you heard one democrat politician denounce these riots?

 

[falcon123]

No it won't. The people throwing bricks are unwittingly doing the bidding of powerful subversives. Gun them down and there will be more. Brick throwers are easy to replace. The Trump administration knows who the subversives are, what they will do about it, and if we will ever hear about it, I have no idea.

The subversives need to be snatched from their homes and turned into fish food.

 

[NHKevin]

A couple things. Huge difference between National Guard and Active Duty with respect to this and posse Comitatus.

Posse Comitatus does not apply to the National Guard. In fact, using the National Guard is a Consitutional power (article one, section eight and article four, section four).
Was there actually active duty military involved?

There use against peaceful protesters is disturbing if true. That video showing them with police when they shot marker rounds at the family on their own porch is reprehensible. But there has been massive amounts of violent riots where people are neither peaceful nor protesting.

Mostly true. Can't use National Guard if the member is on title 10 orders.

 

[lowbuckbob]

The Insurrection Act of 1807 is a United States federal law (10 U.S.C. §§ 251–255; prior to 2016, 10 U.S.C. §§ 331–335) that empowers the president of the United States to deploy U.S. military and federalized National Guard troops within the United States in particular circumstances, such as to suppress civil disorder, .

 

[Broc]

According to one black man on the radio "Stopping the Capitalism enabled white supremacy machine"

So, they want us to turn into Africa?

 

[Broc]

The Insurrection Act of 1807 is a United States federal law (10 U.S.C. §§ 251–255; prior to 2016, 10 U.S.C. §§ 331–335) that empowers the president of the United States to deploy U.S. military and federalized National Guard troops within the United States in particular circumstances, such as to suppress civil disorder, .

I cant believe that passed in 1807, to stop civil disorder, right after the most important act of civil disorder just finished.

 

[Deleted member 67409]

I cant believe that passed in 1807, to stop civil disorder, right after the most important act of civil disorder just finished.

People seriously overestimate how much "freedom" existed in the late 18th and early 19th Century US. Revolts like Shay's Rebellion, Fries's Rebellion, and the Whiskey Rebellion caused a strong reactionary backlash, especially within the Federalist Party, which culminated in the Alien and Sedition Acts. There were some sedition prosecutions because SCOTUS hadn't really become an independent force capable of stopping unconstitutional legislation. That started around 1803 with Marbury v. Madison.

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison also did their best to curbstomp Federalists during the 1800s-1810s. Around the War of 1812, New England Federalists convened at the Hartford Convention to discuss New England secession from the US because of Democrat protectionist and isolationist policies, which severely cramped New England's maritime economy. Maine was also, to put it mildly, on fire and occupied. Federalist New England largely received no military assistance during the War of 1812, which left the area pretty vulnerable.

This era of revolt, attempted secession, and ultimately, reaction, didn't really end until the Era of Good Feelings and the death of the Federalist Party.

 

[Dennis in MA]

Yup, the founder of the BET channel says reparations should be $14 trillion. Even if we could afford it, it's not going to stop them doing what they are doing, so f**k reparations!

BET Founder Calls For $14 Trillion In Slavery Reparations

BET founder Robert Johnson argued Monday that "now is the time" for white America to acknowledge damages resulting from slavery, and for the U. S. Government to provide reparations in the sum of a $14 trillion wealth transfer to help prevent the country from splitting into separate and unequal so...

www.forbes.com

I'm 100% behind this. If there is even just ONE slave that was alive in 1862 still around, I'd pay him or her the ENTIRE $14T.

What??? They all died??? Oh well. No need to write any checks, then.


The funny thing is: Usually if you conquer a country or territory, THEN you get to loot it. Some of these morons think they can just loot it without a military victory. Uhhhhh, no. Thanks. Go sit down.

 

[Darksideblues42]

I honestly do not have a problem with peaceful protests or civil disobedience. The instant someone crosses the line into violence, all bets are off. That doesn't mean events like what happened in Seattle recently are acceptable either. A couple of different protests were going on, one was peaceful, signs, chanting, etc. The other turned ugly. Police responded by breaking both up, and one of the first victims of the police action to clear the streets was a 10-12 year old Asian girl, part of the peaceful protest with her mother. An officer hosed her down with pepper spray seconds after an order to disperse was issued. That is some sadistic bullshit that need not be part of policing.

 

[boatman]

Was a good interview with the mayor of St. Paul, who was saying the police department needs to do a better job of getting the right people in to begin with, and that just having a civil service exam etc. doesn't screen out bad apples. Also called for an independent police oversight, and a reduction of what the unions can do via disciplinary arbitration. I am sure he is not popular with the union now.

If you weren't looking at a black democrat saying this, you would think you were on NES ;-)

 

[NewGuyRay]

Just for a laugh I watched some of the Dumbs debate last night. Turned it off when the two idiots started to talk about reparations for slavery.

Reparations.

Incidentally, I agree with reparations. Any person able to prove he/she was a slave is entitled to reparations from the pool of living former slave owners.

I kid you not- they are pushing for reparations and there are politicians supporting that.

Yup, the founder of the BET channel says reparations should be $14 trillion. Even if we could afford it, it's not going to stop them doing what they are doing, so f**k reparations!

BET Founder Calls For $14 Trillion In Slavery Reparations

BET founder Robert Johnson argued Monday that "now is the time" for white America to acknowledge damages resulting from slavery, and for the U. S. Government to provide reparations in the sum of a $14 trillion wealth transfer to help prevent the country from splitting into separate and unequal so...

www.forbes.com

What could go wring with reparations? The BET founder's plan being pushed is to equalize the median family net worth between black and white via wealth transfers. I believe the quoted family net worth variance between black and white is +/- $155K. This gives you an idea of the scale of reparations being proposed. I saw the BET founder being interviewed on Fox last night. The math was something like, $14T+ divided by 43M eligible African Americans which came out to around $320K per person -- adjusted according to a variety of factors.

Care to guess whether the Dems would kill the Senate filibuster to ram something like this through, against the will of the people.

 

[Broc]

Reparations for what?

I am in favor of offering them a trip back to Africa, the one way ticket paid by the Fed Govt. I think that would be fair, right? We are offering them a chance of sending them back to the land we stole their great great grand parents from.

But only to those that can trace their ancestry back to a slave.

I hate saying this, but if it wasn't for slavery, a lot of these people would not exist today, or they would be starving in Africa. The same way that if it wasnt for WW2, my grandfather wouldnt have met my grandmother, my mom wouldnt exist, my cousins wouldnt exist and I wouldnt exist. Should I file a lawsuit against the Italian govt and Germany for reparations because my grand father had to leave Europe?

 

[Broc]

What could go wring with reparations? The BET founder's plan being pushed is to equalize the median family net worth between black and white via wealth transfers. I believe the quoted family net worth variance between black and white is +/- $155K. This gives you an idea of the scale of reparations being proposed. I saw the BET founder being interviewed on Fox last night. The math was something like, $14T+ divided by 43M eligible African Americans which came out to around $320K per person -- adjusted according to a variety of factors.

Care to guess whether the Dems would kill the Senate filibuster to ram something like this through, against the will of the people.

In 2018 the Census Bureau estimated around 47M African Americans.

Are you telling me that 43M out of 47M can trace back to slaves? ... I call BS on that.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Civil disobedience is one thing, beating people, shooting cops and burning down everything is not civil disobedience. These people are dangerous, opportunistic thugs, many trained and financially supported by people like George Soros, not Rosa Parks.

Nobdoy has come up ih an accepted definition of "civil". What makes "civil" disobedience different from regular "disobedience"? Or what makes a right "civil" in nature. Some courts have held that the 2A is a "civil right", but others have held it is a "right" but does not qualify as a "civil" one.

 

[June4th]

Nobdoy has come up ih an accepted definition of "civil". What makes "civil" disobedience different from regular "disobedience"? Or what makes a right "civil" in nature. Some courts have held that the 2A is a "civil right", but others have held it is a "right" but does not qualify as a "civil" one.

I think the 'civil' line in civil disobedience is defined by the line between malum prohibitum and malum in se.

 

[drgrant]

What could go wring with reparations? The BET founder's plan being pushed is to equalize the median family net worth between black and white via wealth transfers. I believe the quoted family net worth variance between black and white is +/- $155K. This gives you an idea of the scale of reparations being proposed. I saw the BET founder being interviewed on Fox last night. The math was something like, $14T+ divided by 43M eligible African Americans which came out to around $320K per person -- adjusted according to a variety of factors.

Care to guess whether the Dems would kill the Senate filibuster to ram something like this through, against the will of the people.

I wonder what their response would be if we said "we'll, because of all this white privlege we have, we've decided to do reparations with all minorities, not just black people" I mean the whole idea is f***ing insane, but it would be pretty funny once they figured out they were going to get like 100 bucks in reparations instead of 300K because the stolen money would be split with every asian, indian, hispanic, etc, person in america.....