Hunting Ain't Doin' It

[HARRYM]

I don't care what their reason is. When you have a problem, and someone literally knocks on your front door offering to help you solve it and you tell them no, well you reap what you sow with that next level stupidity.

I still put down deer on public land, and they still watch deer literally eat the money out of their pocket. I'm not losing sleep over it. I wonder if they can say the same.

Just trying to be helpful......

 

[Delkancott]

I don't care what their reason is. When you have a problem, and someone literally knocks on your front door offering to help you solve it and you tell them no, well you reap what you sow with that next level stupidity.

I still put down deer on public land, and they still watch deer literally eat the money out of their pocket. I'm not losing sleep over it. I wonder if they can say the same.

As someone who's family debated this for a long time, I think a big part of it is allowing someone you don't know, with no references, to wander your property armed. In any situation other than hunting I doubt most would allow an armed stranger to wander around their property. One of the strategies people have requested of Fish & Wildlife is a resource of recommendations for folks who want hunters on their property, but don't know who to ask or where to look. That said, there will always be people that complain, but don't seek solutions. I wouldn't give them any time personally.

 

[Spartan65]

Zone 11 has essentially unlimited doe tags for the second year in a row but I'll say that I haven't seen a whole heck of a lot of movement out there. Lack of access, lack of Sunday hunting, and the general hatred of hunters among residents are all equal problems.

Look at what happened with the black bear in Hanson. Half the people wanted to "save the bear" and the other half wanted it euthanized or relocated. What ended up happening was a hunting took the bear with a bow and the general public all seem to hate that. I would have preferred to leave it alone and hopefully gain some bear population but whats done is done and apparently it's more palatable to have the police shoot a bear and do God knows what with it than to have a local with a hunting license take the bear in a sporting way and feed people. That's the mentality of the average Mass resident.

Zone 11 here and I know where I can go see 10-15 deer right now mid day I can guarantee it. The problem? It’s all owned by an anti hunting Karen and it’s posted.
Access is the issue.

 

[Bigfudge16]

Zone 11 here and I know where I can go see 10-15 deer right now mid day I can gaurentee it. The problem? It’s all owned by an anti hunting Karen and it’s posted.
Access is the issue.

Same problem here, and those Karen's have no problem posting all about any interactions you have on the local facebook pages

 

[RDG]

I have been told that the current batch of EPO's are very lacking in knowledge and experience. The information that I am getting is they are being restricted from leaving the vehicle for extended lengths of time. (I retired 14 years ago come this Jan 30th after 29 years) They don't seem to know their patrol areas other than the roads. When I started 43 years ago today almost all the folks on the job either Hunted, Fished and or trapped. You don't see these new officers with a canoe on top of their truck. You never hear of these individuals in the back swamps and eddies in the evening chasing late duck hunters. Sorry, but time to disband the agency.

Oh, the EPO's don't work for the Div of F & W. They are under The Executive Office of Energy and Environmental Affairs. Last I knew the current Director was a City of Lowell police Sergeant.

The Div. of F & W has no use for those that pay the bills, they have and never will. They talk the talk but will sell out the folks that buy licenses in a heart beat for political correctness.

Before any of you complain about shift splitting ( of course there was a greedy Lt from the south center of the state that screwed that up) That was done to give us more coverage with out causing overtime. Many of those of us that were "Wardens" would go out and work the morning hunt, go home and come out to work the evening hunt. We did not have three shifts like the local or state police. One Officer had an assigned "district" that he or she was responsible for.

Is it normal for EPO's to perform road details? Like for tree trimming or power lines maintenance.

I saw one yesterday afternoon doing a details for some power lines work we've had going on in town and I thought it was strange.
Saw the same EPO again today doing the same thing...

I mean it's literally the busiest single week of hunting in MA.. and we're got EPO's doing road details?

 

[Mark from MA]

Yet those same Farmers tell me no when I knock on their door and ask permission. So basically, they can go f*** themselves. If they don't want deer chomping their crops, they should welcome Hunters on their land.

Used to happen to me in CT. Didn't take it personally....but most of the time they have a buddy, or buddies that hunt the place and don't want to piss them off by allowing others in. 90% of the time that's the reason. Their land, their buddies, I get it.

Many times I'd be let on cause I bowhunted and they would say, during gun season I'd have to stay off. That was fine with me too.

Truth is though, lot of these "local buddies" would suck up land and barely hunt it, or have time to hunt it. or if they did would only shoot big bucks, which doesn't do much of any good for population control.

Around North Central most farms if there are a many left aren't even posted. Not that they have much of a deer problem anyway. Theres a bunch of orchards too I could hunt around here, but don't bother really.

 

[Mark from MA]

As someone who's family debated this for a long time, I think a big part of it is allowing someone you don't know, with no references, to wander your property armed. In any situation other than hunting I doubt most would allow an armed stranger to wander around their property. One of the strategies people have requested of Fish & Wildlife is a resource of recommendations for folks who want hunters on their property, but don't know who to ask or where to look. That said, there will always be people that complain, but don't seek solutions. I wouldn't give them any time personally.

Let them bowhunt only first.............then you'll have a feeling if they are a clown or not once you get to know them. Not that a bow can't do damage...but most feel safer I guess.

That's how many of my landowner relationships started in CT.....allowed to bowhunt only, then the farmer or landowner would say, jeez, you and your dad take more deer than the gun guys. You wanna gun hunt too?

Then I had the weird landowners who thought that archery was bad because they saw a deer running around stuck with an arrow once, or heard about it, and only would let me gun hunt.

Then you had the landowners that only allowed COPS to hunt and thought that was safer!

 

[M1911]

Is it normal for EPO's to perform road details? Like for tree trimming or power lines maintenance.

I saw one yesterday afternoon doing a details for some power lines work we've had going on in town and I thought it was strange.
Saw the same EPO again today doing the same thing...

I mean it's literally the busiest single week of hunting in MA.. and we're got EPO's doing road details?

He should be doing that detail on OT. That said, there was a scandal a few years about an EPO spending a lot of time at home when they claimed to be working.

 

[Mark from MA]

Is it normal for EPO's to perform road details? Like for tree trimming or power lines maintenance.

I saw one yesterday afternoon doing a details for some power lines work we've had going on in town and I thought it was strange.
Saw the same EPO again today doing the same thing...

I mean it's literally the busiest single week of hunting in MA.. and we're got EPO's doing road details?

If your in Western/North Central.....its no where busy as it used to be.

 

[Mark from MA]

Zone 11 here and I know where I can go see 10-15 deer right now mid day I can gaurentee it. The problem? It’s all owned by an anti hunting Karen and it’s posted.
Access is the issue.

Yup.....50 deer per square mile on Karen's land. 2 deer per square mile on state land.

 

[FisherTech]

Is it normal for EPO's to perform road details? Like for tree trimming or power lines maintenance.

I saw one yesterday afternoon doing a details for some power lines work we've had going on in town and I thought it was strange.
Saw the same EPO again today doing the same thing...

I mean it's literally the busiest single week of hunting in MA.. and we're got EPO's doing road details?

The EPO's can do road jobs on their off time. If the agency doesn't want to pay overtime for the EPO's to be in the field during deer season or if the EPO doesn't want it, he or she is free to do what they want on their time off. Like everyone else, No pay, No work.

The statute says that an EPO has "ALL" the powers of a police officer and constable, with the exception of civil process.

Details are a set rate where OT is time and a half. Neither are "Pensionable".

 

[ThePreBanMan]

As someone who's family debated this for a long time, I think a big part of it is allowing someone you don't know, with no references, to wander your property armed. In any situation other than hunting I doubt most would allow an armed stranger to wander around their property. One of the strategies people have requested of Fish & Wildlife is a resource of recommendations for folks who want hunters on their property, but don't know who to ask or where to look. That said, there will always be people that complain, but don't seek solutions. I wouldn't give them any time personally.

I get it. But at the same time your property, your rules. If you said no gun hunting, that's something any hunter would honor. So now the concern about a stranger wandering your property with a weapon goes away.

Additionally, I would offer the fact that someone respectful enough to ask permission, while we have open field law in Massachusetts, probably not the kind of jackwagon that's going to cause you problems with archery tackle.

I find Mark's explanation to be more plausible. That it's likely they had buddies that were already hunting the property. If they want to keep it available only to their buddies, that's fine. But again, don't complain when the deer start eating the money out of your pocket, begging the state to help you with taxpayer dollars. I don't want to hear that s***. Your average farmer would have Hunter's lining up to help them solve that problem. They're just not receptive to it. Well if you're truly in need of help, you're not really in a position to put parameters and conditions upon how you receive that help. The dear are either a problem in need of solving, or they're not. You either want that problem to go away, or not. Sounds like all these Farmers want is some access to some sweet sweet taxpayer dollars.

 

[Delkancott]

I get it. But at the same time your property, your rules. If you said no gun hunting, that's something any hunter would honor. So now the concern about a stranger wandering your property with a weapon goes away.

Additionally, I would offer the fact that someone respectful enough to ask permission, while we have open field law in Massachusetts, probably not the kind of jackwagon that's going to cause you problems with archery tackle.

I find Mark's explanation to be more plausible. That it's likely they had buddies that were already hunting the property. If they want to keep it available only to their buddies, that's fine. But again, don't complain when the deer start eating the money out of your pocket, begging the state to help you with taxpayer dollars. I don't want to hear that s***. Your average farmer would have Hunter's lining up to help them solve that problem. They're just not receptive to it. Well if you're truly in need of help, you're not really in a position to put parameters and conditions upon how you receive that help. The dear are either a problem in need of solving, or they're not. You either want that problem to go away, or not. Sounds like all these Farmers want is some access to some sweet sweet taxpayer dollars.

I think you're making a pretty big assumption about all these farmers wanting tax dollars because you read one farmer's appeal to a committee. Did you see any other farmers specifically requesting tax dollars for deer damage? Many of the farmers involved are trying to raise awareness to the issue (and money is sadly the most effective way to do that) so that setback issues, Sunday restrictions, and depredation permits can all start to change. I for one am not asking for any handouts, but I do know that money is often the only way to get lawmakers attention.

To your other point, that farmer may have had buddies hunting, or like the older generation in my family, the couldn't come to a consensus so the status quo prevailed and no hunting at all was allowed. We've changed that but it will still be a long row to hoe.

 

[Delkancott]

Let them bowhunt only first.............then you'll have a feeling if they are a clown or not once you get to know them. Not that a bow can't do damage...but most feel safer I guess.

That's how many of my landowner relationships started in CT.....allowed to bowhunt only, then the farmer or landowner would say, jeez, you and your dad take more deer than the gun guys. You wanna gun hunt too?

Then I had the weird landowners who thought that archery was bad because they saw a deer running around stuck with an arrow once, or heard about it, and only would let me gun hunt.

Then you had the landowners that only allowed COPS to hunt and thought that was safer!

This is actually how we started last year. Bows/Crossbows only until some comfort was there, then they started using blackpowder in season. This year the whole family has a better understanding of the process so it's open to shotgun (and another hunter). That said, some family members are still vocally opposed to the process, but luckily they don't have a vote in the process any longer. Any time there are multiple owners or voices, paths can get complicated and muddy.

 

[HorizontalHunter]

I get it. But at the same time your property, your rules. If you said no gun hunting, that's something any hunter would honor. So now the concern about a stranger wandering your property with a weapon goes away.

Additionally, I would offer the fact that someone respectful enough to ask permission, while we have open field law in Massachusetts, probably not the kind of jackwagon that's going to cause you problems with archery tackle.

Plus you gain someone that realizes that it is a privilege to be there and another set of eyes looking after your land and equipment.

In my case I also keep trash bags in my truck and pick up trash on the private properties I have permission to hunt

 

[Delkancott]

Plus you gain someone that realizes that it is a privilege to be there and another set of eyes looking after your land and equipment.

In my case I also keep trash bags in my truck and pick up trash on the private properties I have permission to hunt

We actually just had a hunter (new to us this season) clear a medium sized maple in an old far out road. I thought it was quite nice.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

As a farm owner in Southeastern MA one of the things I’d like to see in addition to hunting on Sundays and removed setbacks for bows is to allow hunting/removal during the growing season when the majority of the damage is done. Every year the deer are abundant in the fields from 5-6 pm until past dark up until autumn when they tend to stay off the open fields and in the woods until sunset or just after. Additionally, the pockets of land where they tend to bed down are mostly towards the perimeter of the farm where they are too close to neighbors for hunters to be able to take the deer. We have two hunters on the farm now and while they’ve taken a good chunk this year, we would need it to be triple to quadruple that before we start to see an impact.

It would have to be antler deer only during the growing season. Does are still nursing fawns at that point. You kill the doe, you kill all her fawns too.... from starvation. Since those don't get tagged or counted, there's no way to accurately measure your management impact.

 

[arlow]

The only thing that is going to help in any meaningful way is opening up more land that now does not allow hunting on it. As long as there is so much private land where hunting is not allowed the deer populations will remain high on them.

Everything else has little effect

 

[M1911]

The only thing that is going to help in any meaningful way is opening up more land that now does not allow hunting on it. As long as there is so much private land where hunting is not allowed the deer populations will remain high on them.

Everything else has little effect

Both private and public lands.

 

[71montess]

We have a narrow 3/4 acre lot. One could safely (and likely successfully) hunt from a tree stand on my property. There is a couple acres of conservation land behind us and all the lots are narrow and deep. But, of course, you would never get 150’ from a road, let alone permission from all the houses with 500’. So I just wave to the deer that amble through during the daytime.

That’s only if you follow the unjust laws the DemocRATS make.

 

[71montess]

I’ve got 18 acres and if you make the measurements to neighbors houses, that’s not a lot of area to set up on.

 

[M1911]

That’s only if you follow the unjust laws the DemocRATS make.

If I hunted in our backyard, the neighbors would see it, at least one would call the cops, and the chief would pull my LTC for suitability. So, yes, I will follow the hunting setback law, even though I disagree with it.

 

[M1911]

I’ve got 18 acres and if you make the measurements to neighbors houses, that’s not a lot of area to set up on.

Yup.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

The only thing that is going to help in any meaningful way is opening up more land that now does not allow hunting on it. As long as there is so much private land where hunting is not allowed the deer populations will remain high on them.

Everything else has little effect

I think it's bullshit that nonprofit land trusts, like Dartmouth's DNRT, take conservation dollars and property tax exemptions from the state, which is paid for by hunters, use it to buy and hold land, and then deny access to the very hunters who paid for it.

 

[FisherTech]

I think it's bullshit that nonprofit land trusts, like Dartmouth's DNRT, take conservation dollars and property tax exemptions from the state, which is paid for by hunters, use it to buy and hold land, and then deny access to the very hunters who paid for it.

You ought check with Mass Fakers and Wankers about land that was bought on the cape with land stamp money and letting Mass Auduborn run it. Which means "No Hunting" .

 

[Delkancott]

I think it's bullshit that nonprofit land trusts, like Dartmouth's DNRT, take conservation dollars and property tax exemptions from the state, which is paid for by hunters, use it to buy and hold land, and then deny access to the very hunters who paid for it.

I’m not sure if it’ll come to fruition, or the time it’ll take if it does, but local land trusts are actually considering allowing hunting on some conservation properties because of these deer issues.

 

[Mark from MA]

The only thing that is going to help in any meaningful way is opening up more land that now does not allow hunting on it. As long as there is so much private land where hunting is not allowed the deer populations will remain high on them.

Everything else has little effect

This....but like FisherTech said, if the town is closed and you have to jump thru hoops or setbacks fxck you. The land is still basically unhuntable.

 

[robjax]

permitless bow hunting should be allowed across the state every Friday, Saturday and Sunday of the year. A deer is in your yard….take it,no questions asked and no need to report it.

 

[arlow]

permitless bow hunting should be allowed across the state every Friday, Saturday and Sunday of the year. A deer is in your yard….take it,no questions asked and no need to report it.

No

 

[Mark from MA]

permitless bow hunting should be allowed across the state every Friday, Saturday and Sunday of the year. A deer is in your yard….take it,no questions asked and no need to report it.

Agree with Rob here. That's a great way to get archery hunting banned. Deer running around neighborhoods and in sight of school busses, with arrows in them, from people who don't know what they are doing........ invoke torches and pitchforks from Karen and also bring the average guy that's on the fence about hunting over to Karen's side.

Urban hunting is a delicate issue, and treading lightly is fairly important, I'm not trying to be an elitist douche, but I've done it for 20 years fairly successfully with little problems. I've seen first time rifle guys who a buddy invited come down and bowhunt, shoot deer in the neck, because they didn't know any better, always shot them with the rifle that way. Now its an instant issue and your tracking wounded deer for a mile across 10 peoples yards and still will never find it, because in most cases a neck shot with an arrow is not lethal.

And reporting deer in this state needs to be done.....its no deer mecca.....maybe you see them in your yards/conservation land/unhuntable land in eastern MA. Hunt state land there....sit in the woods a few hours, odds are its not overpopulated.

I know this because I've done the same thing in CT, in an area filthy with deer, deer pop was 50 per square.....I'd go hunt state land in the same areas and see shit. While private land is great hunting......... Because deer know where they are safe, and either go noctournal, or don't go on that land at all.

Also in Central/Western MA....there is low population and absolutely no need for anything like that, if anything....no doe permits and one buck only is needed. Come hang out here on opening day of shotgun and listen to no shooting, and see no deer.