House Review of S2284 (formerly SB 2265)

[exo]

I'd imagine there are more FID's issued than class B licenses. These folks might have a rude awakening when they go to renew their permits

According to Comm2A's research, that is correct.

http://www.comm2a.org/index.php/8-home/197-licensing

34196 FID's, 3456 LTC-B's

 

[jasons]

I'd imagine there are more FID's issued than class B licenses. These folks might have a rude awakening when they go to renew their permits

There are by far more LTC-A's issued than any other license including FIDs. I suspect that most people who go to renew a class B will end up with an A once all this stuff takes effect. Only time will tell of course.

 

[rwl1955]

You're wrong... When do you say no? When the Jack Boots are kicking in your door to take your kids?

******
as stated previously we don't have the numbers to say NO. If we did we wouldn't have to compromise. We are not dealing from a position of strength.

 

[rwl1955]

I actually hate Rosenthal even more than politicians like Creem.

*******
Yup, me too.

 

[MA_Shooter]

There are by far more LTC-A's issued than any other license including FIDs. I suspect that most people who go to renew a class B will end up with an A once all this stuff takes effect. Only time will tell of course.

Yes, about 10x mote LTC's than FID's according to the GOAL website.

 

[rwl1955]

Stand by folks, by not stopping them, you have only further empowered them. They will be back for more, count on it! They will use the same lame verbage of "We are only looking for reasonable gun laws and compromise. Why they won't compromise on safety we don't understand."

******
And we will fight them again. I do think that the amount of opposition we mustered against some of the anti-gun amendments actually surprised the hell out of some of these Pols. They might think twice before trying to introduce more anti-gun legislation.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

******
as stated previously we don't have the numbers to say NO. If we did we wouldn't have to compromise. We are not dealing from a position of strength.

I agree, if we flat out say no, they will just paint us as radical terrorists and get rid of all guns by passing whatever they want. They have the numbers to do what they want. We can only soften the blow, we will get hit again and again, there is no stopping it only mitigating it. If you get too "come and take it" they eventually will. Many talk about "from my cold dead hands" but how many do that? Well maybe at Ruby Ridge and Waco but how many do that around here and are you willing to die to prove your point or I like to say "guerrilla tactics work, look at the Islamists"

 

[rwl1955]

I watched a campaign commercial for that DB Grossman last night. He had a bunch of Black women who supposedly lost kids to gun violence stating that we need a one gun a month law. What fools.

 

[Palladin]

I watched a campaign commercial for that DB Grossman last night. He had a bunch of Black women who supposedly lost kids to gun violence stating that we need a one gun a month law. What fools.

he's SUCH a f*cking moron

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I watched a campaign commercial for that DB Grossman last night. He had a bunch of Black women who supposedly lost kids to gun violence stating that we need a one gun a month law. What fools.

No, No, the one gun a month works, a criminal will never break the law and I am sure all those women's kids were killed by legal gun owners!

 

[Mike S]

From GOAL

8/1/14 Update:



Legislation clears House and Senate. Last night the House voted 122-29 and the Senate voted 37-3 in favor of H.4376.



During the entire process GOAL worked very hard to accomplish two things, strip the original bill of language which would further infringe upon our Second Amendment rights and adding sections which would benefit law abiding gun owners.



Yesterday we listed all of the positive changes that the legislation will bring to MA gun owners. Today we wanted to list all of the negative and onerous articles and amendments that were defeated.

The original bill would have criminalized private sales of firearms between licensed individuals.
This section was struck and private sales remain legal.
The original bill would have applied a “suitability” clause to the issuance of FID cards. This was modified so that the licensing authority now has to prove in court that the applicant is unsuitable. For the first time ever in MA, the burden of proof is upon the licensing authority.
The original bill would have made an FID applicant list a “reason” for applying. This was struck from the legislation.
The original bill would have given the licensing authority the ability to place restrictions on FID cards. This was struck from the legislation.
The original bill had very onerous language regarding confiscated/seized firearms. We were successful in getting that removed.
The original bill would have drastically increased penalties for improper firearms storage, we were successful in removing this language.
The original bill would have granted even more power to the MA Chiefs of Police and EOPSS to determine what unsuitability is. We were successful in removing this language
The original bill would have penalized licensees for not renewing early. We were able to remove this language.
The original bill would have given the MA Attorney General unprecedented power over which firearms can be purchased in MA. (EOPSS list). We were successful in removing this language.
The original bill would have given the Colonel of the State Police power to define the primer for firearms safety training programs and to determine suitability of trained instructors. We were successful in removing this language.
The original bill would have forced hunter’s safety courses and firearms safety courses to include a module on suicide prevention. This was amended so that the state will now provide hand out materials for the teachers.
We were able to defeat a Senate amendment which would have added one gun a month legislation.
We were able to defeat a Senate amendment which would have added a renewed AWB ban

We would like to thank our members for all of the hard work which changed the tenor of the bill away from being an all out assault on lawful gun owners.

 

[rchap36]

No, No, the one gun a month works, a criminal will never break the law and I am sure all those women's kids were killed by legal gun owners!

All on the right path as of last night

 

[Fattman]

You need to see who voted for the bill
Don Wong (R-Saugus)

Is this the weel Don Wong?

 

[NewGuyRay]

There are by far more LTC-A's issued than any other license including FIDs. I suspect that most people who go to renew a class B will end up with an A once all this stuff takes effect. Only time will tell of course.

But isn't it a distinct possibilty that when someone with a class B renews, they could end up with the new single tiered LTC (formerly class A) but with a "No Large Capacity" restriction added?

Restrictions can now be challenged but we are still quite a ways from knowing who courts will apply the standards.

 

[rwl1955]

We were able to defeat a Senate amendment which would have added a renewed AWB ban.
**********
What does this mean?

 

[terraformer]

We were able to defeat a Senate amendment which would have added a renewed AWB ban.
**********
What does this mean?

That amendment would have removed the date exemption for so called AWs. Basically, a lot of very expensive guns that are never used in crimes would have been made illegal overnight.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Without going back to the document, I *thought* those section had to do with the phaseout of the LTC-B wording, since LTC-Bs will still be in existence as issued until then.

I could be wrong.

Correct. The way this bill was written, all LTC-Bs REMAIN as such (with 10 rd restriction) until they expire naturally. After the date specified there would be no LTC-Bs in existence and anyone applying for renewal would automatically be applying for what was a LTC-A (which I suspect will be called just plain "LTC", as it was before 1998).

The whole article was about sentencing for assault crime and the the last quote is about the gun being on the street. WTF? Their logic is comical.

Their side has NO logic what-so-ever. Never has, never will. But the braindead sheep in this state continue to buy this bullcrap w/o thinking it through and elect equally brain-dead pols to represent them. And here we are today.

No, No, the one gun a month works, a criminal will never break the law and I am sure all those women's kids were killed by legal gun owners!

Yes, that ad admitted that they were killed by "gang bangers". I'm sure that they all had LTCs and bought their guns at your favorite LGS . . . NOT!!!!

There is no brainpower in that commercial or the drivel they are spewing. Legal gun owners' guns aren't "on the street"!! But you are right, the sheeple will lap this up and believe what they are told to believe in and no such law will have ANY impact on gang bangers.

******
And we will fight them again. I do think that the amount of opposition we mustered against some of the anti-gun amendments actually surprised the hell out of some of these Pols. They might think twice before trying to introduce more anti-gun legislation.

The zealot morons in the legislature file these off the wall bills every session. They (Linskys, Creems, etc.) always file OGAM, Insurance, storing guns at gun clubs, etc. every session. However their bills never get any serious traction and I would expect that status will continue thru-out their days as legistraitors.

 

[Springfield_trapdoor]

Did anyone notice the suitability judicial review for LTC's doesn't take effect till 2021. So they have 7 years to keep denying people.....

 

[Alex9661]

"The original bill would have given the MA Attorney General unprecedented power over which firearms can be purchased in MA. (EOPSS list). We were successful in removing this language"

So, what's new with EOPSS list?

 

[jar]

"The original bill would have given the MA Attorney General unprecedented power over which firearms can be purchased in MA. (EOPSS list). We were successful in removing this language"

So, what's new with EOPSS list?

Nothing is new. There was a provision in the bill at one time to give the Attorney General power to remove guns from the EOPSS roster on a whim.

 

[pastera]

******
as stated previously we don't have the numbers to say NO. If we did we wouldn't have to compromise. We are not dealing from a position of strength.

We do have the numbers what we don't have is people who are willing to do anything.

300k license holders
If 5% showed up at the statehouse the govenor would call in the national guard.
If 10% called the statehouse on a bill the phone system would shutdown.
If 50% joined GOAL and Com2A, we would be a power.

 

[PaulD]

We do have the numbers what we don't have is people who are willing to do anything.

300k license holders
If 5% showed up at the statehouse the govenor would call in the national guard.
If 10% called the statehouse on a bill the phone system would shutdown.
If 50% joined GOAL and Com2A, we would be a power.

Yup. As I've pointed out before, licensed gun owners in MA represent 6% of the adults in the state. GOAL's membership numbers are pathetic reflection on those license holders.

 

[jefftk]

I was told years ago when I was active in the Mass Sportsmen's Council. That it is easier the get a bill killed then to get one passed. So that being said, Sorry, but you folks are out of juice.
This got its momentum with the 1998 gun law and it is not going to stop, For your sakes I wish it would, But it isn't.

ehhh, not buying it.

Up to a few weeks ago there were several people here saying how we're all just wasting our time.
Rallies are pointless - legislators don't care, media doesn't care.
Phone calls are pointless - they don't listen.
Emails are pointless - they just delete them.
Public hearings are pointless - dog & pony shows.
That attitude was the MA legislators just don't give a shit and will do whatever they and Bobby want. We were going to get steamrolled just like 1998.

This may not be the glorious victory everyone wants, but we sure as shit didn't get steamrolled. The results seem to indicate to me that the rallies, emails, and phone calls absolutely were effective this time around. Seems to me that we are not running out of juice, rather, quite the opposite.

 

[Trackrat]

If 10% called the statehouse on a bill the phone system would shutdown.

Pretty sure we crashed their system a few times.

 

[pastera]

http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2012G.html

In Mass:
Eligible Voters: 4,781,421
Actual Votes: 3,184,196

So license holders are a strong 10% of the voting population - don't discount that number.

The problem isn't numbers its apathy - We need to become single issue voters as a block on the local level even if it means vomitting at the ballot box.

 

[rchap36]

We do have the numbers what we don't have is people who are willing to do anything.

300k license holders
If 5% showed up at the statehouse the govenor would call in the national guard.
If 10% called the statehouse on a bill the phone system would shutdown.
If 50% joined GOAL and Com2A, we would be a power.

How many gun owners live in west part of mass or up north part of mass how many of them don't have internet , don't know about GOAL or COMMA2
you putting up numbers but nothing to go with them

so for starters how many people has GOAL reached out to that's not a member? of the members that GOAL has how many payed for a friend ? where is the most member of GOAL central,west,north,south , how does GOAL get new members ? I remember when I frist joined GOAL it was because a cowork told me about them I had my lic for about 15 years before I know GOAL was around

 

[pastera]

How many gun owners live in west part of mass or up north part of mass how many of them don't have internet , don't know about GOAL or COMMA2
you putting up numbers but nothing to go with them

so for starters how many people has GOAL reached out to that's not a member? of the members that GOAL has how many payed for a friend ? where is the most member of GOAL central,west,north,south , how does GOAL get new members ? I remember when I frist joined GOAL it was because a cowork told me about them I had my lic for about 15 years before I know GOAL was around

You are absolutey correct - Now what are you doing about it?

I already have plans to work on better information dissemination to the 'disconnected'

 

[rchap36]

http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2012G.html

In Mass:
Eligible Voters: 4,781,421
Actual Votes: 3,184,196

So license holders are a strong 10% of the voting population - don't discount that number.

The problem isn't numbers its apathy - We need to become single issue voters as a block on the local level even if it means vomitting at the ballot box.

The national total number of ballots counted is an estimate derived from the national vote for president multiplied by the ratio of total ballots counted to vote for president in states reporting both numbers. The total ballots counted is updated as additional states report.

 

[MA_Shooter]

http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2012G.html

In Mass:
Eligible Voters: 4,781,421
Actual Votes: 3,184,196

So license holders are a strong 10% of the voting population - don't discount that number.

The problem isn't numbers its apathy - We need to become single issue voters as a block on the local level even if it means vomitting at the ballot box.

I spoke with a few gun owners who had no idea this was going on. Head in the sand? Tuned out? Don't care? I don't know but to have an impact these folks need to be engaged.

 

[Artie]

We do have the numbers what we don't have is people who are willing to do anything.

300k license holders
If 5% showed up at the statehouse the govenor would call in the national guard.
If 10% called the statehouse on a bill the phone system would shutdown.
If 50% joined GOAL and Com2A, we would be a power.

Without NES, I wouldnt have joined GOAL or donated to Comm2A. Being a new gun owner, I only knew about NRA and that is because I needed to be a member to join my gun club. I know several people that aren't on NES and they knew nothing about the bill or what GOAL and Comm2A do for us. They got a license, bought a gun and stuffed it in a safe. I would take an uneducated guess that is the majority of Gun owners in MA. Might have been me if I didnt bump into NES during a search.