Holstered pistol fires when guy bends over

[Mountain]

Looks fake..I mean who has latex gloves that handy if you aren't in the garage working on a mc or car,or in a hospital ?

Not saying it can't happen,because it does.

What? You've never Animal House? Here's your latex gloves that handy...

 

[FalArAk]

How about a woman in a gun shop that is constantly handling/cleaning guns and doesn't want those chemicals on her hands?

That's about as plausible as a guy that works in a gunshoop and constantly handles guns shooting himself in the penis while concealing his own handgun.

 

[drgrant]

Agreed regarding no such thing as 'zero'. Should have made my comment more specific. I do understand how Glocks and other striker-fired pistols work.

Doesn't compute then, why don't you trust the mechanism? It's pretty damned simple- if the trigger doesn't
get pulled, the gun doesn't fire.

I have several that I built myself or are reworked range toys. Yep, the trigger has to be pulled- but there are examples of that happening via accidental means for various reasons including what happened to Mr. "Where did my junk go?" in the OP.

I spent countless hours researching NDs with Glocks and other pistols. The conclusion I came to was that the overwhelming majority of the time it was caused by some form of gratuitous negligence, not an "accident". A guy jamming a foreign object into the trigger guard, or not paying special attention to holstering, is not an "accident".

There is no gnomish mysticism that makes a glock fire itself while being carried in a proper holster.

Leave your gun at home if w/o one in the pipe? Waste of time to carry it? Yeah, about a half second waste of time. I'm willing to gamble that half second for the added measure of safety for any "My finger is my safety" guns.

It's not a "half second" of time if your other hand is tied up doing something, have fun with that. Additionally, some guns may even jam if you fumble a slide rack. You've now just introduced two potential points of failure.

Even a gun with a manual safety and a round in the pipe can at least still easily be brought into action with one hand. A guy carrying an intentionally unloaded handgun is dramatically crippling his capabilities.

Why anyone would want to "start downhill" is beyond me...

-Mike

 

[Varmint]

Most cops I know carry the gloves on them all the time, they never know when they may need them. They are small and flat and take up no room in a back pocket.

Right next to the .38 special with serial number removed. Just kidding.

 

[headednorth]

Right next to the .38 special with serial number removed. Just kidding.

I thought they used BB guns these days?

 

[Varmint]

I thought they used BB guns these days?

Probably depends on whose corpse (or Corps as Obama would say) you're dropping it on. Dog, kid, drug lord, each requires a different plant.

 

[EJFudd]

No dog in the chambered vs. unchambered striker-fired fight, but I always go by that safety rule about "Never Point The Gun At Something You Are Not Prepared To Destroy"... and my Junk is certainly NOT something I'm prepared to destroy.

 

[Garys]

A guy I know told me that everyone who carries should do so with an empty chamber. When needing the gun, they should draw and rack the slide like the Israelis so.
I asked him how many hours of training the Israeli police and military do to become proficient? He didn't know.
I asked him how that would work with a revolver? I got a blank look.

This is why gun advice from non gun owners (and many gun owners) should be ignored.

OTOH, holsters are to guns as antennas are to radios. You can have the best ham radio in the world, but it's useless without a good antenna. A good gun with a cheap holster is worse than useless, it's dangerous.

If you don't carry with a round in the chamber you deserve what you and/or your family gets.

 

[ScottS]

That woman is prepared. She ran straight for the kit and looks like she grabbed a tourniquet.

This. That chick can roll in my AO any time. Didn't lose her head, immediately went for the first aid kit, "Where are you shot? Talk to me."

 

[Springfield_trapdoor]

 

[VTski4x4]

So did the de-cocker fail?

Bob

I think it took its job a little too literally.

 

[drgrant]

Then you'll excuse us if we don't take your advice on safe carry as 100% gospel. Just because you got lucky with bad decisions doesn't make them safe. It's called survivorship bias.

I didn't necessarily say my decisions were bad just that if I had other options at the time I would have preferred
to use a different holster. Not that the act of using the $7 holster was actually unsafe. Because I knew what I was dealing with and how to safely handle something and mitigate risk.

Do what you want- everyone is free to do that, however, it won't make carrying unloaded any less stupid.

If that means that myself and millions of other people who carry a round in the pipe that never shot themselves, if that means we have "survivorship bias" whatever the f*** that is, then so be it...

Do you walk up to guys that ride motorcycles and tell them they have survivorship bias? Tell us how that works
out for you.

Which is exactly what happened here. And also here and countless other examples by the way.

That's great but there's pretty much always some element of gross negligence in every ND I've ever
seen. Things that are easily foreseeable.

The assertion seems to be that a gun without a round in the pipe is zero help ever. Would love to see the cites on that one. It's almost as if this crowd thinks every armed encounter comes down to a draw-and-shootout like the OK Corral...

Yeah, there have been people who had elevator music playing while they ran to get their unloaded gun from
someplace and loaded it and saved a life. I'll grant you that. But that's like, what, less than 1% of likely SD
situations? (like a mass shooting or a terrorist "hollywood" type dramatic event where you're not at the epicenter of the problem) Most people aren't going to have that luxury.

Most people who need a gun to save their own (or someone else's) ass, when things go bad, they need it NOW and they need it to work NOW. Like is in right as the incident happens. Not carrying a round in the pipe ALWAYS works against this requirement.

If you shoot yourself, you're just as injured or dead as if someone else shoots you. And the consequences for that are, possibly, your guns get taken away. How often, I wonder, do these accidental shootings happen versus purposeful defensive shootings?

Well to start you'd have to create different classes of NDs because they're obviously not all
equivalent. There's NDs and then theres ND's with serious injuries. Then theres law enforcement
vs everyone else. Hell there's even likely echelons within law enforcement.

Below is my thesis. Admittedly I have never been able to find the stats on these.

Accidental examples - relatively higher incidence and nearly fully preventable
* Negligent storage leading to small kid grabbing a gun - nothing in the pipe, or a safety both help here
* holster issues like this video - nothing in the pipe or a safety both help here
* FBI agent drops his gun and tries to retrieve it in a rush - nothing in the pipe or a safety both help here
* Adrenaline fueled nerves result in an ND while de-holstering in a defensive situation - nothing in the pipe or a safety both help here

All of these involve people too stupid to own a gun that shouldn't be carrying, either. So with #3 you're asserting that FBI agent is going to draw a gun without immediately charging it? And with #2 (this incident) you're making
an excuse for the guy not shaking his gear down (and the process) to make sure it works correctly? And with a
kid picking up a firearm, merely keeping it unloaded is going to stop something bad from happening? lol. OK.

De Holstering? Like racing to reholster a gun? Nobody trains to do that, that I'm aware of. and I haven't
heard of too many cops or other personnel that carry a gun shooting themselves after defending themselves.





Wow.

Your "carry without a round in the pipe" thing just strains credulity. You're basically just saying "well, this idea provides insurance from people from being really stupid".

I guess it's great insurance if you don't trust yourself that much.

I'm hoping that FBI agents name was something like " Aywillbe Fayed. "

There's also no "nearly preventable" about it, all of the examples you cited are completely preventable. It's the reason why we don't hear of most of this hokum happening in the real world on a regular basis.

Defensive readiness slow-down examples - defensive situations are lower incidence and the below do not prevent use of the gun, they slow it down
* motor control or memory (lack of training) result in you not being able to un-safety or rack the firearm
* in the case of nothing in the pipe - an injury to off hand causes slower presentation

Yes, and whenever you can't draw and put a round on target in like under 3 seconds (or better) preferably, you're usually running WAY behind the curve. Most of us are way too slow to begin with, adding extra things to make it more slow is just terminally stupid. Before you drive somewhere do you let all of the air out of your tires? Because that's what this basically is. When bad things happen nobody comes up to you and says "you're about to get robbed or assaulted, GET READY!!!!"

Take a force on force class or even watch a few videos, or a gun class with someone that has a little martial arts
knowledge, and if you have any sense, you won't be carrying an empty gun anymore. Or at least you'll compromise and pick something that puts you at FAR less of a disadvantage.

Like I said earlier there are also compromises that still suck 100 times less than carrying an unloaded gun. Like carrying a gun with a manual safety. Even the guy with the mass Sig P250 with the 900 pound spring in it that carries with a round in the pipe is still at less of a disadvantage than you are. Even the guy who picked that is being less stupid about his safety than someone that carries an unloaded gun.

-Mike

 

[Racenet]

So did the de-cocker fail?

He was de-cocked just fine.

 

[Racenet]

Plastic single clip holster that's easy to put on/take off with the gun still in it. I'll often go a week without unholstering the gun.

I also like the safety on my LC9s. After lots of snap cap drills knocking the safety down on the draw is muscle memory. I also never put the safety on with my right thumb so that muscle memory doesn't exist to screw me up in a panic.

^^^This^^^

I carry OWB every day using a Kydex paddle holster and NEVER have to unholster the pistol to put on/take off. The more you screw around with your pistol, the more chance you have to screw up. Just leave it alone.

 

[Racenet]

I asked him how that would work with a revolver? I got a blank look.

Seriously? You really do not know how that would work with a revolver? Shame on you!

 

[whacko]

Seriously? You really do not know how that would work with a revolver? Shame on you!

Leave the next cylinder to index empty if course....

Had a post here years ago on NES that a guy left the hammer over an empty cylinder when he carried.....a modern da revolver......because if he accidentally pulled the trigger it wouldn't go off. I shit you not!

He took alot of Shit for that one.

 

[42!]

Too many to quote so I'll just make a couple general comments.
Is a loaded firearm that is striker fired and a glock style safety more prone to the risk of an ND than guns that have a manual safety and/or are hammer fired DA/SA. Absolutely, and the NDs that have happened show this. Yes, it's because something pressed the trigger and it's negligence, but the amount of force required is very little compared to a DA gun, and a manual safety would require force in two places in two different directions. It's just less likely to happen. If you accept that no one is perfect, then all you can really do is reduce the chances of an ND to as near zero as possible. But I'm not telling anyone they should do anything. I would hope everyone will acknowledge the risks before making their own decision, but whether you do or don't, what you do is up to you.

Personally I've always prefered hammer fired with a safety for carry, I really can't imagine the scenario where the safety would get disengaged AND the DA trigger pulled unintentionally. I practice with either hand and disengaging the safety is all muscle memory and the first shot is accurate (I'm sure adrenalin will have more effect on accuracy that pull weight).

But YMMV

As for loaded/unloaded. I don't see any advantage of carrying unloaded over a DA/SA with a manual safety. So for me it's a non-issue. I guess if you're going for the movie thing of racking you pistol every 5 minutes, then maybe. If it's because you want to be safer AND carry a glock, I think you should reevaluate your choice of carry gun.

 

[Mountain]

I'm going to bet that the overwhelming majority of pistol ND's are without safeties- whether a pistol w/o safety or one with but not engaged. Shit happens, like in the OP. Something catches a trigger. Creased holster, clothing, forgotten object in the pocket, whatever- if a good enough bump that stored energy is going to send the firing pin to the primer. No, it's not magic and something FUBAR has to happen first. Yeah, technically avoidable but I'm sure that whatever bumped that trigger in the OP was not obvious to Mr. Groinshot.

My first choice is always a Sig P220 Compact, one in the pipe, but in the caliber that also tends ignite dumpster fire threads. I hear the same crap about my preferred .45 ACP- along the lines that I and my family deserve to die because I'm not carrying more rounds and that modern 9mm is far superior, blah blah blah. I'm not one to troll but if I were, these discussions are total low hanging fruit because they always devolve into dumpster fires. People just can't let go and say "OK, your bad choice..." and give their reasons it's wrong. These threads never go that way and always elicit the name calling and derision.

edit- There are exceptions, like 42!'s post directly above and some other posts I have liked.

 

[Varmint]

I’d like a Sig-style DA/SA w/ decocker in G43 size but I think only Springfield Armory makes one.

 

[Sevenrats]

Morning wood+appendix carry+Incog holster=Pecker shot off!

Damm Glocks going all postal on their owners..Again..

My S&W Shields have a safety for a reason!

This^^^^^^^^

 

[Garys]

Yes, I knew. The point was that he didn't know. Or think that anyone carried revolvers.

Seriously? You really do not know how that would work with a revolver? Shame on you!

 

[hpm]

I was never brave enough to appendix carry my pistol and prefer it between 3-4 o'clock.
Everybody get's uneasy if you point a gun at someone (or something) you don't want to destroy...and then some go on and appendix carry and point their gun at their most precious parts

 

[whatluck]

I like appendix carry with a j frame. Never felt like it would be a problem.

 

[Artifact]

I carry appendix with chambered round. Any other way you are setting yourself up for failure. Sure there are situations when you might have time to chamber a round but then again why work backwards and add unesessary steps to presenting your firearm.

My philosophy of using a firearm for self defense is the fastest, most efficient, path of least resistance way on eliminating a threat with the absolute minimum amount of motor skills required.

 

[BUMPA01603]

I carry appendix with chambered round. Any other way you are setting yourself up for failure. Sure there are situations when you might have time to chamber a round but then again why work backwards and add unesessary steps to presenting your firearm.

My philosophy of using a firearm for self defense is the fastest, most efficient, path of least resistance way on eliminating a threat with the absolute minimum amount of motor skills required.

Wasted motion equals wasted time and every split second counts.... find a carry model that fits, find an appropriate holster, keep a round in the chamber, and most important: keep your eyes open!

 

[FiremanBob]

I need more facts. It actually looks like a training film. The other two people seem unusually calm, unless they see this sort of thing routinely. Also, there is no blood visible.

If the event is real, something must have gotten inside the holster. The shooter obviously stretches his shirt over the gun after holstering, but it's possible that the waistband of his underwear got in behind the pistol as he holstered.

I hope the whole story gets out soon. Like the Ayoob story the other day, knowing the truth about these incidents is valuable to the entire gun community.

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

That woman is prepared. She ran straight for the kit and looks like she grabbed a tourniquet.

You can’t put a tourniquet on a taint

 

[TomMontana]

For those that appendix carry, have you timed your draw compared to strong side? In concealed carry class, the guys that appendix carry didn't seem any faster. To me cutting 0.5 second on the draw doesn't outweigh the risk of shooting my dick off.

It looks cool in Miami Vice though.

 

[enbloc]

Lol.

Spot On says:
June 2, 2018 at 19:17

I feel bad….for the 9mm. Once again someone is shot by one point-blank and will recover just fine. Probably a hollow point too.

 

[Al-Jim19]

Plastic single clip holster that's easy to put on/take off with the gun still in it. I'll often go a week without unholstering the gun.

A week?? I’ve gone months if the weather is constant. Summertime I always carry 1 o’clock, kydex holster, round in the chamber, shield safety off.