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Holden's Tom O'Shea picked to lead Mass. Department of Fish and Game

Dennis in MA said:
We could broadcast deer pornos in the central and western parts of the state to get the deer hornier. Maybe slip some corn whiskey in with the corn? Get them does "in the mood"????

We could restrict hunting licenses in the central/western part of MA for a decade and let the #'s grow that way, too.

I'm not sure what we are supposed to do. Honestly. While I'm being funny, I'm trying to get what the State is supposed to do. We get one guy that's pissed that an area is off limits to fishing (and it's one small area in a HUGE fishing ecosystem in the state). So restrictions aren't gonna fly for existing hunters.

But TBH, I'm a dumb fisherman (not being facetious - really I am). If there is something that the state SHOULD be doing, I'd like to hear about it.
Click to expand...
See posts by @M1911. If they change the setback laws, someone could be bagging deer in my backyard. They are pests around me. Go for a walk in the woods, see at least a few deer.
 
M1911 said:
In the eastern part of MA (along with the Cape and Islands) we have far more deer per acre than is optimal. The issue isn’t the lack of deer. The issue is the setback limits which make it mostly impossible to legally hunt in eastern MA.
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Agreed, however in the western part of the state where I am it is a different reality. Out here it is normal to not see deer when hunting.

TLB said:
See posts by @M1911. If they change the setback laws, someone could be bagging deer in my backyard. They are pests around me. Go for a walk in the woods, see at least a few deer.
Click to expand...

Yes and no. It just requires permission from the home owner(s) within the setback.

If I can be of help (archery only) shoot me a PM.

Bob
 
HorizontalHunter said:
Yes and no. It just requires permission from the home owner(s) within the setback.
Click to expand...
Which you won't get in Eastern MA.

I could easily safely bow hunt in my backyard from a tree stand. But it would require permission from 6-8 homeowners and I still wouldn't be 150' from a road. Not going to happen.
 
Dennis in MA said:
We could broadcast deer pornos in the central and western parts of the state to get the deer hornier. Maybe slip some corn whiskey in with the corn? Get them does "in the mood"????

We could restrict hunting licenses in the central/western part of MA for a decade and let the #'s grow that way, too.

I'm not sure what we are supposed to do. Honestly. While I'm being funny, I'm trying to get what the State is supposed to do. We get one guy that's pissed that an area is off limits to fishing (and it's one small area in a HUGE fishing ecosystem in the state). So restrictions aren't gonna fly for existing hunters.

But TBH, I'm a dumb fisherman (not being facetious - really I am). If there is something that the state SHOULD be doing, I'd like to hear about it.
Click to expand...
What can be done in central/western MA?

Open season on Coyotes any way any how, all year long.

One buck only west of 495.

Antler restrictions in Western MA to let little bucks live.

All state land managed by quota lottery tag statewide. Unlimited tags east of 495 if needed for population reduction on state lands. Western state land have low amounts of quota tags.
More on this below.

Hunting private land permission only, none of this its not posted free to walk in on shit.

Shut off all doe permits west of 495 until deer per square mile reaches a much better number say 30 dpsm. Micro manage areas as needed, meaning close to 495 allow some permits if the deer pop gets to large, or there aren't many areas to hunt.

All does must be checked east of 495 at a local check station. if killed on private land show permission slip from Landowner at time of check in. If killed on state land, show quota tag as proof you have tag. Any unchecked/untagged does found in a person's vehicle west of 495 are illegal and will be cause for loss of license/fines/jail.

Manage kills on state land by lottery kill quota, meaning, each state land area. For instance....like Barre Falls Dam Area, is only given 50 deer permits buck only, per year to be taken out of it. Other state land areas the same give permits that way state land kill and hunting and kill can be controlled more. This is the way CT state land is managed, and many other states as well during firearms seasons, as not to over kill any one state area. In MA, state lands are a deer killing free for all with no limit on hunters, and some areas just get hammered.

Manage all archery on state land the same way with a kill quota, until the actual deer per square mile is 30 or more in Central/Western Zones.

Keep some Western MA State lands archery only never to be hunted by gun to keep the quality up, and have antler restrictions as well in those areas.

Do helicopter surveys in the winter to get an accurate deer count......not just walk an area, spook some deer.

Manage land for more edge cover, less forest, more fields

Plant crops for deer food on WMA's, plant food trees on WMA's, open the canopy around food trees, log actively for wildlife.
 
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TLB said:
See posts by @M1911. If they change the setback laws, someone could be bagging deer in my backyard. They are pests around me. Go for a walk in the woods, see at least a few deer.
Click to expand...
My brother is in Western CT, and says they are like mice. Just big rodents.


HorizontalHunter said:
Agreed, however in the western part of the state where I am it is a different reality. Out here it is normal to not see deer when hunting.
Click to expand...
Maybe they need to relocate some deer from East to West.
 
HorizontalHunter said:
Agreed, however in the western part of the state where I am it is a different reality. Out here it is normal to not see deer when hunting.
Click to expand...
I began deer hunting in the Berkshires in 1980. I only hunted for a few years back then, and resumed a few years ago. Back then it was rare to not see deer anytime we went hunting. Now, it's rare to see any deer in passing.

They say the numbers of hunters has dropped. I very rarely see another hunter out in the deer woods. And I had never seen a coyote, up until a few years ago.
 
And teh fact that the libs on teh C&I don't wanna see the pweddy deawwh get hoit. Dey is soooo cyooot! :rolleyes:

With excess of deer you have. . . Lyme disease. Most prevalent in. . . . C&I. They are their own worst enemy and it affects YOUR health insurance rates because of it. Grrrr.
 
TLB said:
See posts by @M1911. If they change the setback laws, someone could be bagging deer in my backyard. They are pests around me. Go for a walk in the woods, see at least a few deer.
Click to expand...

That isn't INCREASING the herd. LOL


Mark from MA said:
What can be done in central/western MA?

Open season on Coyotes any way any how, all year long.

One buck only west of 495.

Antler restrictions in Western MA to let little bucks live.

All state land managed by quota lottery tag statewide. Unlimited tags east of 495 if needed for population reduction on state lands. Western state land have low amounts of quota tags.
More on this below.

Hunting private land permission only, none of this its not posted free to walk in on shit.

Shut off all doe permits west of 495 until deer per square mile reaches a much better number say 30 dpsm. Micro manage areas as needed, meaning close to 495 allow some permits if the deer pop gets to large, or there aren't many areas to hunt.

All does must be checked east of 495 at a local check station. if killed on private land show permission slip from Landowner at time of check in. If killed on state land, show quota tag as proof you have tag. Any unchecked/untagged does found in a person's vehicle west of 495 are illegal and will be cause for loss of license/fines/jail.

Manage kills on state land by lottery kill quota, meaning, each state land area. For instance....like Barre Falls Dam Area, is only given 50 deer permits buck only, per year to be taken out of it. Other state land areas the same give permits that way state land kill and hunting and kill can be controlled more. This is the way CT state land is managed, and many other states as well during firearms seasons, as not to over kill any one state area. In MA, state lands are a deer killing free for all with no limit on hunters, and some areas just get hammered.

Manage all archery on state land the same way with a kill quota, until the actual deer per square mile is 30 or more in Central/Western Zones.

Keep some Western MA State lands archery only never to be hunted by gun to keep the quality up, and have antler restrictions as well in those areas.

Do helicopter surveys in the winter to get an accurate deer count......not just walk an area, spook some deer.

Manage land for more edge cover, less forest, more fields

Plant crops for deer food on WMA's, plant food trees on WMA's, open the canopy around food trees, log actively for wildlife.
Click to expand...

I concur. BUT. . . . do you think the current hunters in Western MA will enjoy that? Or do you think, like your average kvetching NES member, that they'll race here and to the local gun shop to complain that the Commonwealth has it's head up it's ass and is screwing up the whole thing???

I'm assuming the latter. The only way to get MORE deer is to. . . . take less deer. For a while.

I'm 100% with you. I just don't see MA caring and I don't see the hunters getting behind any restrictions to increase deer herds. It's like telling fishing boat captains that you're going to restrict harvest in order to strengthen the species. We've watched that show around here for 30-40 years. Boat owners would prefer to just wipe out an entire fish species instead of cutting back and having a long-term limit on catches to protect the resource.
 
TLB said:
My impression is that CT has more reasonable laws for bow hunting in neighborhoods for that reason... But I'm not sure.
Click to expand...
CT doesn't have any setback laws for bowhunting from land or houses.

I can and have gotten permission on a 2 acre lot in the middle of a subdivision, sitting a treestand overlooking the neighbors swingset where the neighbor with the swingset has no idea I'm hunting at all and I have no permission from them.
 
Dennis in MA said:
That isn't INCREASING the herd. LOL




I concur. BUT. . . . do you think the current hunters in Western MA will enjoy that? Or do you think, like your average kvetching NES member, that they'll race here and to the local gun shop to complain that the Commonwealth has it's head up it's ass and is screwing up the whole thing???

I'm assuming the latter. The only way to get MORE deer is to. . . . take less deer. For a while.

I'm 100% with you. I just don't see MA caring and I don't see the hunters getting behind any restrictions to increase deer herds. It's like telling fishing boat captains that you're going to restrict harvest in order to strengthen the species. We've watched that show around here for 30-40 years. Boat owners would prefer to just wipe out an entire fish species instead of cutting back and having a long-term limit on catches to protect the resource.
Click to expand...
No....the average Joe Schmo hunter that lives by me works by brown is down and the more deer they can kill the better. No matter what the consequences to the herd. That's because if they are not from other states they have no idea what a "good" herd is. They see a deer, they kill it if they have a tag for it and say "wow' there's a lot of deer, I killed one. PFFT.

They never question.....boy, the state gives me a doe permit every year....but I never even see one, or work my ass off to shoot one by hunting a week or more....hmmm......maybe that's a problem.

The question has to be posed to them by the state, do you want better hunting, where it might take a few years of sacrifice, but you'll be seeing and shooting more deer in less hunting time, or do you want to just crap away the resource and hunt for weeks on end without seeing shit. But insurance companies would have to approve that, because honestly I think the state is beholden to them to keep the deer population at ass low levels.

Again....eastern part of the state different rules for a different population. But wacking a lot of does is going to affect your population. Even game managers in the midwest states and south are finding this out and limiting kills now.
 
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Mark from MA said:
I've hunted does in other states with a real herd. Like PA last year, Its a one day hunt, (usually one hour hunt) pick which ever one the 10-20 that shows up in the morning, because they show up just about every morning or evening........ and shoot it.
Click to expand...
PA is grossly overpopulated with deer, resulting in all sorts of problems like ticks, degraded environment, etc. We don't want that here. The goal should be a healthy herd of deer and a health ecosystem, not that you can just walk out into your backyard and shoot 3 deer within 10 minutes of opening.
 
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HorizontalHunter said:
I’m blaming bad coffee and late night television. Oh, and Biden.😆
Click to expand...
Same here. Same here.


Dennis in MA said:
It's like telling fishing boat captains that you're going to restrict harvest in order to strengthen the species. We've watched that show around here for 30-40 years. Boat owners would prefer to just wipe out an entire fish species instead of cutting back and having a long-term limit on catches to protect the resource.
Click to expand...
COMMERCIAL FISHING, not recreational. Recreational fishing is a teeny weeny tiny drop in the bucket compared to the guys in trawlers!
 
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M1911 said:
PA is grossly overpopulated with deer, resulting in all sorts of problems like ticks, degraded environment, etc. We don't want that here. The goal should be a healthy herd of deer and a health ecosystem, not that you can just walk out into your backyard and shoot 3 deer within 10 minutes of opening.
Click to expand...
I just want to be able to shoot one deer in the one week I hunt and maybe see a few more. The area where I live is like 5 deer per mile, if that.....I think it can support a few more. I do agree the carrying capacity in Central/Western MA is not as high as other southern states with more Oak Mast and Farmland. Howver, its piss poor management on purpose.

Funny thing is....I do not get ticks down there. I get WAY, WAY more ticks up here, and it's obviously not an overpopulation of deer problem. Because......they don't manage the woods and fields. Woods are too thick, fields are just grass. They should be managed by controlled burns or turning the fields over and farming them......killing the ticks.

PA ecosystem is fine with exception near Philly which is well overpopulated and they give out unlimited permits almost, and you can shoot two bucks if you kill enough does, they give you another buck tag. When Im down there I see way more animals of all species than up here. Its about 20-30 deer per square where I'm hunting and the understory is fine. They have more farm and oak, hickory mast, and less hemlock. But are also managed way better too. PA plants food plots on it's state land, check the vast fields of corn, soybeans, wildflowers, and sunflowers when you drive down 209 along the Delaware gap. They just don't have fallow fields of grass like our WMA's have.

I'm very sure eastern MA is overpopulated but I bet not to the tune of what people think. MA people are just fxcking not used to having a deer herd. They see some deer, they think WOW there's a lot of deer. Go to almost any state......they see deer everyday and still don't go giving all sorts of doe permits. That said for sure we should have doe permits east of 495 because of the lack of control in the suburbs.
 
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Mark from MA said:
No....the average Joe Schmo hunter that lives by me works by brown is down and the more deer they can kill the better. No matter what the consequences to the herd. That's because if they are not from other states they have no idea what a "good" herd is. They see a deer, they kill it if they have a tag for it and say "wow' there's a lot of deer, I killed one. PFFT.

They never question.....boy, the state gives me a doe permit every year....but I never even see one, or work my ass off to shoot one by hunting a week or more....hmmm......maybe that's a problem.

The question has to be posed to them by the state, do you want better hunting, where it might take a few years of sacrifice, but you'll be seeing and shooting more deer in less hunting time, or do you want to just crap away the resource and hunt for weeks on end without seeing shit. But insurance companies would have to approve that, because honestly I think the state is beholden to them to keep the deer population at ass low levels.

Again....eastern part of the state different rules for a different population. But wacking a lot of does is going to affect your population. Even game managers in the midwest states and south are finding this out and limiting kills now.
Click to expand...

Looks like we are on the same page. Maybe send some of those hunters to my AO or on-Cape or on-Islands. Maybe the state would allow less hunting restrictions in those bunny-hugger areas. [rofl] [rofl]

M1911 said:
The herd in eastern MA is way overpopulated for the carrying capacity of the land.
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LOL. I KNOW! (See bunny-huggers above.)

Aside - there is this jet-black cat that wanders our neighborhood. Yesterday around 3:30 or so, he plants himself under my porch. ????

About 7pm, one of the biggest bunnies in the state come onto the lawn from the woods. I guess Cat was a bit stiff from 3 hours of hiding. He wasn't even close. But I have to give him props for 3 hours in a hide to attempt to get his rabbit. Should send that cat to sniper school.
 
Mark from MA said:
Funny thing is....I do not get ticks down there. I get WAY, WAY more ticks up here, and it's obviously not an overpopulation of deer problem. Because......they don't manage the woods and fields. Woods are too thick, fields are just grass. They should be managed by controlled burns or turning the fields over and farming them......killing the ticks.
Click to expand...
Like this! (Do they take requests?)


View: https://www.instagram.com/p/CryM19IMZB2/
 
Mark from MA said:
They never do anything like that out here in Central West that I know of. I've contacted the state to do our club fields and gotten crickets.

They do log, but even that is starting to get shut down by douchebags.
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They burn the Southwick WMA likes it's there mission. Seriously .. sometimes twice a year.
The last couple years they burned it 3 weeks before pheasant season started. Then this year they burned it again in the early spring.
This fall they also did a ton of logging smack dab in the middle of pheasant season.

Place is completely void of any kind of wildlife.
I understand how a prescribed burn is necessary every few years but I really believe they over burn this spot.

And three weeks before pheasant season is a kick in the nuts to hunters.. especially since it's the only stocked WMA around.
 
Mark from MA said:
They never do anything like that out here in Central West that I know of. I've contacted the state to do our club fields and gotten crickets.
Click to expand...

Prescribed fire for habitat management

Prescribed fire is essential for managing wildlife habitats and fire-influenced natural communities.
www.mass.gov www.mass.gov

Here's where they are scheduled:

Upcoming MassWildlife prescribed fire locations

MassWildlife uses prescribed fire to manage wildlife habitats. Review the list of sites where MassWildlife will be conducting prescribed fires this season.
www.mass.gov www.mass.gov
 
Coyote33 said:

Prescribed fire for habitat management

Prescribed fire is essential for managing wildlife habitats and fire-influenced natural communities.
www.mass.gov www.mass.gov

Here's where they are scheduled:

Upcoming MassWildlife prescribed fire locations

MassWildlife uses prescribed fire to manage wildlife habitats. Review the list of sites where MassWildlife will be conducting prescribed fires this season.
www.mass.gov www.mass.gov
Click to expand...
Looks like they do some burns out here. But for the amount of land out here its not really that much compared to southeast MA.

Good to see though, Im wondering how long this has been going on because I've never seen a burn in Barre falls, or any of the WMA's I hunt in Central MA.
 

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